So close to being a solid team.
- Thread starter Istate
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#1 If we somehow go 4-1 to finish the year Rhoads is off the hot seat until 2016.
#2 If we finish with 2 or 3 wins this year he should be canned.
#3 "Young" isn't an excuse. It means the coaching staff sucked at their jobs for years 1-3 and have no players developed to play. Whether it was an error in ability of the player or the character of the player doesn't matter.
#4 We're trending upwards? Rhoads did a better job with Chizik's players than he has with his own. Rhoads walked into some talent which ended up playing on Sundays. Chizik walked into a garbage roster. Chizik went 5-19 with garbage. Rhoads is now 6-18 in his last 24.
Offensively if we come out and hang 30 on OU I'll start to believe we've turned a corner. If we come out and put up 7 points against OU we'll know it was an anomaly.
#5 People are nuts if they think the players love Rhoads. Teams who love their coach don't have to beg to have a "Players Advisory Council" created because they feel their coach is running them into the ground and they aren't ready to play. Do some of them love him? Yes. Do some of them despise him? Yes. Are they ever going to claim they aren't behind their coach? Hell no, that's PT suicide.
#2 If we finish with 2 or 3 wins this year he should be canned.
#3 "Young" isn't an excuse. It means the coaching staff sucked at their jobs for years 1-3 and have no players developed to play. Whether it was an error in ability of the player or the character of the player doesn't matter.
#4 We're trending upwards? Rhoads did a better job with Chizik's players than he has with his own. Rhoads walked into some talent which ended up playing on Sundays. Chizik walked into a garbage roster. Chizik went 5-19 with garbage. Rhoads is now 6-18 in his last 24.
Offensively if we come out and hang 30 on OU I'll start to believe we've turned a corner. If we come out and put up 7 points against OU we'll know it was an anomaly.
#5 People are nuts if they think the players love Rhoads. Teams who love their coach don't have to beg to have a "Players Advisory Council" created because they feel their coach is running them into the ground and they aren't ready to play. Do some of them love him? Yes. Do some of them despise him? Yes. Are they ever going to claim they aren't behind their coach? Hell no, that's PT suicide.
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There always seems to be delusional apologists in our fanbase regardless of the results we see on the field each week.
ISU and KSU basically have the same talent level. The difference is coaching.
Even though we won't do it, here is what I would like to see...
The rest of this season:
2-3 wins - Rhoads fired
4-5 wins - Rhoads given one more year to win a bowl
Bowl victory - off hot seat
You guys can just let go of the "fired" thing...if we lose every game from here on out, there still is no chance of a firing. Nor should there be.
Second, nobody has the same coaching as KSU because nobody else has Snaggletooth. He's a miracle worker. Further, their talent IS better because they've been masters of JUCO recruiting...though that rarely shows up any recruit "ranking" services. Iowa State seems now, belatedly, to be emulating that JUCO approach...and its likely to bear some fruit as early as next year.
Finally, young is an excuse. Whether people have mistakenly used that as an excuse in the past is irrelevant, because even a peawit can see that it IS a factor on this current team. Mistakes were made in recruiting and staff 2-3 years past, but the past two classes are improvements...and this current class looks even better. So while our youth IS the result of shortcomings from the staff, and Rhoads in particular, his willingness to adjust and fix those is PRECISELY what we need from a young coach. He LEARNS from mistakes, a rare quality among human beings.
Also, nobody is an apologist "regardless of the results", we just are willing/able to look deeper than a simple score. A child can look at a win-loss column, and the same child can see nothing else.
Rhoads needs to get us to a bowl next year. That is the bar, you can pretend its higher than that but you'd be fooling yourself. Winning it would great, and I hope/expect that we will...but it is not a requirement for him to continue as our coach.
Second, nobody has the same coaching as KSU because nobody else has Snaggletooth. He's a miracle worker. Further, their talent IS better because they've been masters of JUCO recruiting...though that rarely shows up any recruit "ranking" services. Iowa State seems now, belatedly, to be emulating that JUCO approach...and its likely to bear some fruit as early as next year.
Finally, young is an excuse. Whether people have mistakenly used that as an excuse in the past is irrelevant, because even a peawit can see that it IS a factor on this current team. Mistakes were made in recruiting and staff 2-3 years past, but the past two classes are improvements...and this current class looks even better. So while our youth IS the result of shortcomings from the staff, and Rhoads in particular, his willingness to adjust and fix those is PRECISELY what we need from a young coach. He LEARNS from mistakes, a rare quality among human beings.
Also, nobody is an apologist "regardless of the results", we just are willing/able to look deeper than a simple score. A child can look at a win-loss column, and the same child can see nothing else.
Rhoads needs to get us to a bowl next year. That is the bar, you can pretend its higher than that but you'd be fooling yourself. Winning it would great, and I hope/expect that we will...but it is not a requirement for him to continue as our coach.
Or, at least that's the annual excuse. We could have a starting lineup of nothing but juniors and seniors and the excuse for losing will still be "It's a young team - wait until next year!"
"We've never won in the past so we shouldn't expect to win ever." Such the losers' mentality. It's amazing it doesn't carry over to basketball.
But Mccarney. Who we going to hire that's better. 6-19 isn't that bad when you consider the 3 losing seasons of the first 4.
It's interesting that people believe we will have definitive knowledge of CPR's ability after 7 or maybe even 8 years as opposed to 6. I wonder what gives people such confidence. Major missed opportunity last night. There are many things within CPR's control (readiness to play, sound fundamentals, complete team effort etc.) Five more opportunities await in 2014. There will be plenty of data points to evaluate by December.
Well, OK, I'd look at this guy - Lance Leipold of Wisconsin-Whitewater, with his record of 100-6, he's reached 100 wins faster than any coach in NCAA history...
http://www.uwwsports.com/news/2014/10/18/FB_1018141120.aspx
Also Mangino perhaps - I think he's changed things with the team culture within his scope of authority. Curious to know what changes he would make with the program if he were HC...
If we had the cash, we need at least 10 wins in the next 17 to avoid having to make a change.
Imo we will have to make a move eventually, and so if just about football, should make the move immediately (at the end of the year in this case). We can't, so I can appreciate those able to keep putting lipstick on this pig.
We are staring at winning a couple more games this year, next season get to 5 or 6 wins in a peak year roster wise and we hear about all the improvement, then go back to the valley accompained by a roster dip and the transition to new coordinators and their staffs.
Imo we will have to make a move eventually, and so if just about football, should make the move immediately (at the end of the year in this case). We can't, so I can appreciate those able to keep putting lipstick on this pig.
We are staring at winning a couple more games this year, next season get to 5 or 6 wins in a peak year roster wise and we hear about all the improvement, then go back to the valley accompained by a roster dip and the transition to new coordinators and their staffs.
Good grief.
JP is going to do whatever he feels needs to be done coaching-wise with the football program and as long as ticket sales and facilities and recruiting are on the upswing, and each of those is, CPR will continue to be the head coach.
We certainly have better and more talent on both sides of the ball than we've had whether or not you choose to believe it. We are in the process of establishing depth and that is what is hurting us now.
Call me a sucker, but I'm seeing the method behind the madness after hanging 45 pts off a TX team that has allowed a total of 51 points on the season. That is hella good! Our defense caved in the end, but made some great plays throughout the game. Some of you thick-headed peeps need to step away from your pride and CHOOSE to see the improvement because it is very evident.
I get it that we need to see W's and being content with where we are is foolish. That's an easy no brainer as I am one who wants to see W's as much as anyone. They will come and asking for more patience is not wise, but it is necessary.
With two weeks to prepare, I am starting to think we actually have a shot at OU if this team can put four quarters together. It seems to me we are getting closer to doing that.
JP is going to do whatever he feels needs to be done coaching-wise with the football program and as long as ticket sales and facilities and recruiting are on the upswing, and each of those is, CPR will continue to be the head coach.
We certainly have better and more talent on both sides of the ball than we've had whether or not you choose to believe it. We are in the process of establishing depth and that is what is hurting us now.
Call me a sucker, but I'm seeing the method behind the madness after hanging 45 pts off a TX team that has allowed a total of 51 points on the season. That is hella good! Our defense caved in the end, but made some great plays throughout the game. Some of you thick-headed peeps need to step away from your pride and CHOOSE to see the improvement because it is very evident.
I get it that we need to see W's and being content with where we are is foolish. That's an easy no brainer as I am one who wants to see W's as much as anyone. They will come and asking for more patience is not wise, but it is necessary.
With two weeks to prepare, I am starting to think we actually have a shot at OU if this team can put four quarters together. It seems to me we are getting closer to doing that.
This team does not quit and keeps playing hard.
The Chizik Myth about great recruits and stuff is pretty much garbage. Chizik inherited Bret Meyer and Todd Blythe. And Chizik also inherited Austen Arnaud and Alexander Robinson. The Quarterback that Chizik recruited was Jerome Tiller. So spare me the BS that Chizik was a great recruiter. Chizik had some players that were very good like KO, and Leonard Johnson and Benton. But he had a lot of busts as well.
In Rhoads first year the schedule did not have Oklahoma, Texas or Texas Tech. Easier schedule.
Texas has allowed a lot more than 51 points this season, BYU alone put up 41 on them.
There's no Chizik myth about great recruits. The story has more to do with how many games Rhoads won with Chizik recruits versus how many games he won when all Chizik recruits were gone.
Speaking of ancient history. I took a look back at the Taking the Next Big Step reportreleased Fall 2006. From that document:
Goal #4 Benchmarking our Performance
"Have all our teams finish in the upper half (first division) of the Big 12 Conference standings within five years."
Strangely, there was nothing in there excluding the football program. Two thoughts. One, upper half of the conference is a reasonable goal for ISU football. Two, we thought we could get there in a five year time frame.
Call it what you want but last night our offense gave us a glance of the potential this team has. Montgomery, Lazard, Richardson, Bundrage, among others will give us a competent passing game that can open up the run. A young defense will be better next year too. I had some hope restored last night. I still think Rhoads needs to go back to his risk taking ways and think outside the box as no little guy ever climbed to the top by trying to beat the big boy at their game.
All in all while it may still get dashed, I for one am getting my hope restored.
All in all while it may still get dashed, I for one am getting my hope restored.
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So call it the Rhoads Myth.
Rhoads is Chizik from Iowa with a better DC. The value added by CPR to get to 7 wins in '09 was greatly overestimated.