I think it's funny that he pretended to be unaffiliated and then immediately went defensive for the Golden Showers.
Tulsa as 2 point favorite........
- Thread starter isume6
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I think it's funny that he pretended to be unaffiliated and then immediately went defensive for the Golden Showers.
CycloneErik
Well-Known Member
No kidding. His first post left me wondering, but I didn't think we could pin him down on that one. He took care of that problem.
As far as riding on the coattails, whatever. Apparently those teams don't think enough of Tulsa to bring them along for the ride. Don't accuse a program of riding others' coattails if you can't even get that far yourself, hurricanz.
Tulsa has historically been a better football program than Iowa State? Do tell.
Here's a little Wiki action.
They were pretty good in the 40s when pretty much anyone with a good coach could be good.
They also had some success in the 70's and early 80's with the help of ISU alum John Cooper. Of course this was in the powerhouse Missouri Valley Conference before the MVC went to non scholarship football.
They had one more really good 10 win season in 1991. Shortly thereafter the school dropped the Health/PE major which a reported 56% of the team was majoring in. They quickly lost that 10 win fire.
They aren't that much better overall that ISU record wise and a lot of those wins came in the MVC while ISU was in the Big8 with teams like, ya know, Nebraska and Oklahoma.
Take it for what it's worth.
Thanks for your interest in posting on an Iowa State bulletin board.
I'm sure you are passionate about Tulsa, but neither your school's academics nor its athletics rise to the major conference level.
Thanks for stopping by.
Which aspect(s) of my posts leads you to conclude that I am a “Tulsa Troll?”
I’ll remember to “shut [my] dirty ***** mouth” while typing with my fingers. But let’s establish one thing: The fact that you are an Iowa State fan does not make you any less of a “guest” than anyone else who happens to sign up on this site. This is an internet forum, and it is open to anyone who is willing to abide by the terms of service agreement. It may be geared specifically towards Iowa State fanatics in the same way that the Des Moines Register is geared towards the population of Des Moines, but the former doesn't mean that I am any less of a member than you (unless you're a paid subscriber, in which case I'll concede that you are). The purposes of this forum are to facilitate discussion for sports enthusiasts and to generate revenue for the owner(s) of the site. The fact that you’re a “fan” of Iowa State does not mean that this is your “home.” You signed up to discuss issues pertaining to Iowa State athletics, just as I did. The condition of your being a “fan” is immaterial.
This is a forum in which people are encouraged to discuss their ideas. If you disagree with me, by all means rebut my position.
To “ride the coattails of successful programs” in the Big 12 is to enjoy the perks of being associated with a conference that is regarded as strong. Although Texas A&M has fallen on hard times (in the same way that Oklahoma did in the 90s), the school is still widely considered to be a powerhouse program. In fact, College Football Data Warehouse (Team All-Time Rankings) ranks Texas A&M as the 20th best college football team of all-time. This respect for A&M contributed to the strength of the Big 12, which in turn benefited Iowa State in the way of revenue sharing from bowl appearances and television contracts. If you reevaluate my post with this in mind, you’ll see the connection I was making.
Even during its down years, Oklahoma contributed greatly to the perceived strength of the conference. The same applies during Nebraska’s down years as well. The names Oklahoma, Nebraska, Texas, and Texas A&M went a long way in establishing the Big 12 as a premiere conference in the NCAA. All of this, of course, greatly benefited Iowa State.
In any case, let's grant, for the sake of argument, that Texas A&M has been a total failure and has contributed nothing to the Big 12's prestige. That out of the way, we'll remove Texas A&M from the list of teams that "made" the Big 12. Has my argument really changed at all? I asserted that Iowa State has done little more than "ride the coattails of successful programs" in the Big 12. Is that assessment not true, even if we discount Texas A&M as one of those successful teams? Bringing up Texas A&M's recent struggles is a red herring.
As I admitted in my previous post, I could only “speculate” about the matters pertaining to conference affiliation for Iowa State and Tulsa, given that I had not “[conducted] research.” My initial check on the matter of ISU and conference affiliation led me to conclude that the Cyclones moved from the Missouri Valley Conference to the Big 8 in 1928 (Iowa State Historical Data). That expressed, I’ll concede my error. However, my contention still stands. Historically, Tulsa has been a better football program than Iowa State. (See below.) Thus, with respect to football, Tulsa would have been a much more attractive addition to the Big 6/Big 8 during the eras in which the conferences were formed.
Who said anything about a “historically better win percentage?” I asserted that “Tulsa has historically been a better football program than Iowa State,” which suggests more than just win percentage. But since you brought up the issue of win percentage and the competition it faced while compiling such a win percentage, let us compare Tulsa’s record against teams other than “Southwest Arkansas North Tech and the North Texas-El Paso Institute State Junior Varsity” – namely, common Big 12 opponents.
Tulsa versus Oklahoma (7-17-1)
Percentage: 0.30000
Iowa State versus Oklahoma (5-69-2)
Percentage: 0.07895
Tulsa versus Texas Tech (12-11-0)
Percentage: 0.52174
Iowa State versus Texas Tech (3-7-0)
Percentage: 0.30000
Tulsa versus Kansas (5-5-0)
Percentage: 0.50000
Iowa State versus Kansas (36-49-6)
Percentage: 0.42857
Tulsa versus Kansas State (11-6-1)
Percentage: 0.63889
Iowa State versus Kansas State (49-42-4)
Percentage: 0.53684
Tulsa versus TCU (5-14-0)
Percentage: 0.26316
Iowa State versus TCU (0-3-0)
Percentage: 0.00000
Tulsa versus Baylor (4-5-0)
Percentage: 0.44444
Iowa State versus Baylor (5-5-0)
Percentage: 0.50000
Tulsa versus Oklahoma State (27-40-5)
Percentage: 0.40972
Iowa State versus Oklahoma State (18-25-3)
Percentage: 0.42391
Interestingly, Tulsa boasts more wins against Oklahoma despite playing the Sooners 51 times less than the Cyclones have. So the better winning percentage isn't necessarily against the likes of “Southwest Arkansas North Tech and the North Texas-El Paso Institute State Junior Varsity." Nevertheless, I wasn’t necessarily writing about win/loss records alone. By “historically . . . better football program,” I was referring to aspects like final season rankings and bowl appearances in addition to winning percentage.
Let’s compare final season rankings for Tulsa and Iowa State.
- Tulsa has finished the season ranked in the top 25 a total of 11 times compared to Iowa State’s three.
- Iowa State’s highest ranking was in 1971, when the Cyclones were ranked 17th in the final polls. Tulsa has been ranked 17th or higher a total of six times (including an AP rank of 4th in 1942).
- Iowa State’s first appearance in the final polls was in 1971. By that time, Tulsa had already accomplished a final top 25 ranking a total of eight times.
- Since its first finish in the top 25 polls, Iowa State has been ranked twice (in 1976 and 2000). However, during the same time period, Tulsa has finished in the top 25 polls three times (1974, 1991, and 2010).
Now let’s compare bowl appearances and wins.
- Tulsa is 8-10 in its bowl games versus Iowa State’s record of 3-8.
- Tulsa’s first bowl appearance and win dates back to the 1941 season, when the Golden Hurricane defeated Texas Tech in the 1942 Sun Bowl. The following three seasons, Tulsa made appearances in two Sugar Bowls (close losses to Tennessee and Georgia Tech) and one in the Orange Bowl (in which Tulsa defeated Georgia Tech 26-12). Iowa State’s first bowl appearance was 1971, and its first bowl win wasn’t until 2000.
- Before Iowa State ever achieved its first bowl victory, Tulsa had already won as many bowl games as Iowa State has in its entire history. And since Iowa State’s first win (2000), Tulsa has won four bowl games compared to Iowa State’s three.
So where am I going with this? I’m not suggesting that Tulsa is a football powerhouse, but I am asserting that “Tulsa has historically been a better football program than Iowa State.” Not only did I assert that Tulsa had been better historically, I demonstrated it to be so.
Which conference do you think would take ISU?
Please see my response to CYphyllis above.
I never “pretended to be unaffiliated” with Tulsa; I am unaffiliated with Tulsa. I’m a chemistry major at OU. I have never stepped foot in a Tulsa lecture hall or classroom.
Tulsa is historically better in win percentage, final poll appearances, bowl wins and appearances, and even wins/losses versus many common Big 12 opponents. See my response to CYphyllis above.
I’m not “passionate about Tulsa,” nor is Tulsa my school; I’m a student at OU. I'm deployed right now, and I’ve been a little homesick lately. One of my friends here is an ISU alumnus, and we made a wager on the game. He wouldn’t take any action on OU unless I gave him 40 points. I declined, so we bet on Tulsa. He suggested Tulsa because he knows that I root for all Oklahoma schools.
In fact, two weeks ago, I created the entire football section for the University of Central Oklahoma. (Central Oklahoma Bronchos - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) The entire football section is my work (cue the vandalism). I'm not affiliated with UCO in any way either. I don’t have to go to a particular school in order to take interest in the program. Like I mentioned, I’ve just been bored and a little homesick the past few weeks. With football season around the corner, a little banter here and there makes this place feel a little more like home.
This thread is about Iowa State/Tulsa and the point spread. Posters would better serve their positions if they stuck to discussing the theme at hand rather than name-calling or speculating about where I attend school. Then again, as klamath632 seems to think, this is "your" board, so do whatever floats your boat. I'll continue to respond to what is addressed for me, and I will do so without flaming, name-calling, or issuing any personal jabs of any kind.
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You are getting trolled by us! We win, you wrote a novel right here and its great. Thanks for the laugh!
I have nothing but time here, so thanks for giving me something to do.
That said, you've won nothing. I don't know how a person can "win" anything on a message board. Best wishes.
Since this is a board where Iowa State people gather amongst themselves, I think it's fair to call fans of other teams guests. They certainly should be treating the host team better.
Without stating where I think Texas A&M stand, I don't think that referring to a ranking system that only the ignorant cares about constitutes "respect".
This is why you should be careful what you say. Looking up sanitized data, does not replace actual knowledge on a subject. I'm really not sure what you're basing this comment on. When the conference was formed, Tulsa was 9-8-1, while Iowa State was 68-37-6. What would Tulsa have to offer? If you're referring to the split, then Tulsa had yet to make the big time.
The problem with this kind of comparison is that you never know how the teams would face if you switched them. Iowa State has more wins over Kansas, because they played them more. Tulsa has a higher winning percentage against Kansas, but is that because they've done better than them, played them in their weaker years, or just haven't had to play them as often? You don't really know.
However, it's safe to say that Tulsa has had a better program all-time, but is that because they've been able to be top dog in a conference, when Iowa State is the bottom of their conference? It's difficult to say, but if you're claiming that one would be better than the other in that conference, it should be considered.
This is exactly what I'm talking about. Tulsa was in a very weak conference and was top dog for a while. This turned into bowl appearances. Iowa State was in a strong conference and was the bottom of the barrel. Also, it was a conference that limited bowl appearances for a while. If you take Iowa State and put them in a weak conference, how do you know they don't rack up bowl appearances? Tulsa wouldn't have got many in the Big 8, that's for sure. You can't compare those and pretend it's a fair comparison.
Around here, the
