The Jerry Kill Comparison

[awd4cy]

Misleading stat is misleading. They played TCU at the beginning of the season. While they weren't ranked at the time, last time I checked they were in line for the playoff. It's just that no one knew how good they really were at the time. Yes, I know Jerry got pasted...

Then people fail to mention all the Big 12 teams TCU has also pasted. Actually, for being on the road, Minnesota didn't really do that bad.

 

[CyCloned]

Kill is a very good coach, but the Gophers are just an above average team, don't get carried away with their record against an endless string of punching bags. Also, how many season ending injuries has MN had this year? I bet it is less than half that ISU has, probably less than 25% of what ISU has.

 

[jsb]

Jerry Kill has trended up every program he has ever stopped at. When he took the job in Minnesota he was on the record and transparent of how he was going to be relevant in the Big 10. He was open with the media, recruited his type of players, played an easy schedule, qualified for some bowl games, got buts back in TCF Bank, and is still improving the gopher program. Everyone dismissing him and his cupcake schedule you're missing the point

Not really. If he wins a few in the next month we can talk. Until then he is doing well, but I have very little doubt Rhoads could do the same thing at Minnesota.

 

[ISUAlum2002]

Again, someone should look up his record against ranked teams. I doubt he's beaten more than 1.

I went ahead and looked it up. He started at Minnesota in 2011. For starters, his team has not played a ranked team yet this season.

Last year, they played 4 teams in the top 25 and lost 3 of those games. They lost to #19 Michigan 42-13, #16 Wisconsin 20-7, and #11 Michigan State 14-3. They beat #25 Nebraska 34-23 at home.

In 2012 they played ONE team ranked in the top 25, and lost to them. ONE game against the top 25. They lost to #16 Nebraska 38-14.

In 2011 they played 5 teams ranked in the top 25, and lost all 5 games. #25 USC 19-17, #19 Michigan 58-0, #13 Nebraska 41-14, #15 Michigan State 31-24 and #16 Wisconsin 42-13.

So, in Jerry Kill's 3+ seasons at Minnesota, they've played a whopping 10 teams ranked in the top 25 and he's 1-9 against them. And as previously mentioned, they haven't played ANYONE in the top 10. Kill's record at Minnesota is 24-23 while playing in the mighty B1G. Yee-haw.

 

[jsb]

Then people fail to mention all the Big 12 teams TCU has also pasted. Actually, for being on the road, Minnesota didn't really do that bad.

He still lost and lost fairly ugly.

It is a bit misleading....but it is a fact. Minnesota will play their first top 10 opponent on Saturday since 2009.

How many ranked teams has Kill played? How many has he beaten?

 

[northwoodscy]

If you aren't aware of what Jerry Kill had to take over for ... read this, his rebuild job at Minnesota is not for the mentally weak.

http://www.startribune.com/featuredColumns/70426632.html

And Rhoads is lucky he doesn't have the Twin Cities media publishing columns skewering his errors.

 

[jsb]

I went ahead and looked it up. He started at Minnesota in 2011. For starters, his team has not played a ranked team yet this season.

Last year, they played 4 teams in the top 25 and lost 3 of those games. They lost to #19 Michigan 42-13, #16 Wisconsin 20-7, and #11 Michigan State 14-3. They beat #25 Nebraska 34-23 at home.

In 2012 they played ONE team ranked in the top 25, and lost to them. ONE game against the top 25. They lost to #16 Nebraska 38-14.

In 2011 they played 5 teams ranked in the top 25, and lost all 5 games. #25 USC 19-17, #19 Michigan 58-0, #13 Nebraska 41-14, #15 Michigan State 31-24 and #16 Wisconsin 42-13.

So, in Jerry Kill's 3+ seasons at Minnesota, they've played a whopping 10 teams ranked in the top 25 and he's 1-9 against them. And as previously mentioned, they haven't played ANYONE in the top 10. Kill's record at Minnesota is 24-23 while playing in the mighty B1G. Yee-haw.

Thanks.

Again, I don't want to say that he is not a good coach and that he doesn't have Minnesota going in the right direction. He does. I'm sure he has done some things that Rhoads should have done (and maybe Rhoads has done some things he should have done).

But when comparing the two, you've got to take schedules into account.

I don't know if Rhoads can turn this thing around (obviously I don't know if he'll get the chance to), but this is no doubt that he has had a much, MUCH tougher row to hoe than Kill has had at Minnesota.

 

[jsb]

If you aren't aware of what Jerry Kill had to take over for ... read this, his rebuild job at Minnesota is not for the mentally weak.

http://www.startribune.com/featuredColumns/70426632.html

And Rhoads is lucky he doesn't have the Twin Cities media publishing columns skewering his errors.

And Kill is lucky that he is the only D-1 school in a state larger than Iowa. Does Minnesota even have a school at UNI's level?

 

[Acylum]

You can B10-B12 the argument all you want but the Gophers would destroy us.

 

[northwoodscy]

And Kill is lucky that he is the only D-1 school in a state larger than Iowa. Does Minnesota even have a school at UNI's level?

NDSU has a large footprint and recruits heavily in the twin cities area. Look you're not any less of a Cyclone or Big 12 guy if you admit that Kill has it cooking a little better than we do right now...

 

[Clone9]

I'm actually mad at you guys for making me badmouth Jerry Kill and UM. I actually like them both, but making a big deal out of their 7-2 start is just crazy. They haven't beaten anybody. In a long time.

And no, I don't think that they would destroy us. They would definitely beat us, but I don't think it'd be a blowout.

 

[hawkedup]

Where are you getting this from? Minnesota plays in the worst P5 Division according to Sagarin. Big 12 is second only to SEC West.

Minnesota could not move the ball on a Big 12 team until 3rd stringers were put in the game. They lost to Illinois, it's a very weak division and weak schedule they and Iowa play.

CBS top 126 on rankings. Several on conference . Your Sagarin is totally wrong, ISU is # 4 behind both SEC divisions, Pac 12 South.. Big 12 is only 4 points higher then the Big 10 with rating of 78 to 74.

 

[Clone9]

It seems like a lot of this UM uplifting is because of the blowout of Iowa. Need I remind all of you that Iowa lost to US. They lost to us on their own field, and we are not good. They also almost lost to UNI and Ball St. Any decent team (not us) should beat the crap out of Iowa - and Minnesota, like the DECENT team that they are, did that. But they aren't anything more than decent.

 

[ISUAlum2002]

I went ahead and looked it up. He started at Minnesota in 2011. For starters, his team has not played a ranked team yet this season.

Last year, they played 4 teams in the top 25 and lost 3 of those games. They lost to #19 Michigan 42-13, #16 Wisconsin 20-7, and #11 Michigan State 14-3. They beat #25 Nebraska 34-23 at home.

In 2012 they played ONE team ranked in the top 25, and lost to them. ONE game against the top 25. They lost to #16 Nebraska 38-14.

In 2011 they played 5 teams ranked in the top 25, and lost all 5 games. #25 USC 19-17, #19 Michigan 58-0, #13 Nebraska 41-14, #15 Michigan State 31-24 and #16 Wisconsin 42-13.

So, in Jerry Kill's 3+ seasons at Minnesota, they've played a whopping 10 teams ranked in the top 25 and he's 1-9 against them. And as previously mentioned, they haven't played ANYONE in the top 10. Kill's record at Minnesota is 24-23 while playing in the mighty B1G. Yee-haw.

By the way, in that same stretch of time ISU has played 15 top 25 teams. 3 of them were in the top 10. Rhoads is 3-12 in those games against the top 25.

 

[IAStubborn]

Living in Minnesota, I've had the opportunity to watch Jerry Kill steadily build the Minnesota football program. I think the main difference between him and Paul is the presence of a steady basic plan. He doesn't try to do anything other than what he and his staff are good at offensively and defensively. They don't switch defenses from year to year, and they run the same basic offensive scheme they came in here with - the same one they have used in 4 programs of varying size before they came here. They recruit players that fit the system rather than trying to fit the system to the few good players you have.

Most of Kill's assistants have been with him for over 10 years and I would be willing to bet that even if one of his coordinators were to leave he would find another coordinator who would run the HEAD coach's system. He's not going to hire someone who will teach an entirely new offense to the players. The players have been recruited for that particular brand of football. I never really get the idea that Coach Rhoads has any solid beliefs in how offense should be played. As a result, the Cyclones wind up with new assistants teaching THEIR way, changing techniques and terminology annually. Players are recruited for an offense that is never run once they arrive on campus. Offensive linemen are asked to play differently every year, with new terms, and new expectations. To build a program at a lower level football school like Minnesota or Iowa State you have to be enough of a leader to have a plan, and then to stick to it. Your assistants need to do what YOU, as the Head Coach want them to do, not what THEY want to do. You need to recruit the players that fit that system. And you are NOT going to get 4 or 5 star players unless they grow up in your back yard, so you have to be great developers of talent. You have to be great at finding players who have not peaked in high school. You have to know yourself and your system well enough to know which players you can turn into solid players who will thrive in your environment. Then, you have to develop them over 4 or 5 years.

That is what I see happening at the University of Minnesota. I really like Paul Rhoads, but by comparison his leadership looks responsive, not planned. He swings from one thing to another trying to find something that works. It's a stark difference.

So you think we should hire ferentz?

 

[northwoodscy]

It seems like a lot of this UM uplifting is because of the blowout of Iowa. Need I remind all of you that Iowa lost to US. They lost to us on their own field, and we are not good. They also almost lost to UNI and Ball St. Any decent team (not us) should beat the crap out of Iowa - and Minnesota, like the DECENT team that they are, did that. But they aren't anything more than decent.

They're decent. We are awful. Not uplifting.

 

[AuH2O]

NDSU has a large footprint and recruits heavily in the twin cities area. Look you're not any less of a Cyclone or Big 12 guy if you admit that Kill has it cooking a little better than we do right now...

I like Kill and I think he's doing a good job, but:

1. Just a few years before Kill, Glen Mason had a fair amount of success there. Let's not act like this was like Snyder taking over K State. He won 10 games not that long ago.
2. As others have pointed out, UM is a P5 conference with no in-state competition in something like the 15th largest metro in the US. Sorry, but I don't want to hear that they have to fight for recruits against FCS NDSU. They should be able to build a decent team without leaving their own metro.
3. Per the wikipedia, Kill is 1-8 (0.125) vs. ranked teams and Rhoads is 4-23 (0.174). Kill has averaged playing about 2 ranked teams a year, while Rhoads is playing about 5. Based on his record, you could add 3 more losses to Kill's record if he played ISUs schedule.

Kill has good momentum, but to pretend this isn't largely due to SOS is not being realistic.

 

[IAStubborn]

And ironically enough as I watch the Grantland Basketball Hour, I am blasted with #25 Minnesota versus Ohio State ads.....Cant remember last time I saw ISU on one of those

Also, Maxx Williams is exactly what EJ Bibbs should have been.

Do you really think they are a top 25 team? Better than OU or WVU? Did you watch them play TCU?

 

[IAStubborn]

I don't get it. Are NSDU and Kansas not garbage? Why cant we beat them?

Minn absolutely white-washed Iowa

Didn't minnesota lose to NDST recently?

 

[northwoodscy]

I like Kill and I think he's doing a good job, but:

1. Just a few years before Kill, Glen Mason had a fair amount of success there. Let's not act like this was like Snyder taking over K State. He won 10 games not that long ago.
2. As others have pointed out, UM is a P5 conference with no in-state competition in something like the 15th largest metro in the US. Sorry, but I don't want to hear that they have to fight for recruits against FCS NDSU. They should be able to build a decent team without leaving their own metro.
3. Per the wikipedia, Kill is 1-8 (0.125) vs. ranked teams and Rhoads is 4-23 (0.174). Kill has averaged playing about 2 ranked teams a year, while Rhoads is playing about 5. Based on his record, you could add 3 more losses to Kill's record if he played ISUs schedule.

Kill has good momentum, but to pretend this isn't largely due to SOS is not being realistic.

I agree that Kill has beat up on some absolute creme puffs. That was part of his plan, one of his most controversial moves at the U of M was paying $800,000 to back out of a home and away vs. North Carolina so he could schedule San Jose State. The Reusse's and Souhans WRECKED him, but he added a win, got bowl eligible, stocked the cupboard some more and that has been part of his plan.

SOS is definitely helping Kill, but he took over for Brewster who took all of Glen Mason's momentum and ruined it.