*****The Super, Mega, Huge Big 12 Expansion Thread*****

[HoopsTournament]

State borders DO matter when you're talking about $$.

Just media speak.

 

[HoopsTournament]

State borders DO matter when you're talking about $$.

Will KC no longer broadcast Big 12 games? Will Sprint Center not have any more KU games now that MU is in different conference? Will Arrowhead never have a KSU or KU game again just because MU is in the SEC? I don't see that happening. When you are talking about money, state borders DON'T matter.

 

[Mizzoulander]

As to the Missouri fans that are so excited about their new boyfriend, why are you here with the ones you are so excited to leave? I don't get that. Do you need our blessing?

If you want to break up with someone does it make sense to be talking with them about your new boyfriend?

Are you here because you subconsciously don't want to leave?

Shouldn't you be on the SEC boards telling them how you're going to rock their world?

Is it that your new friend doesn't love you as much as you love him?

Won't they return your phone calls?

I look at Missouri fans just like someone that finds a new love interest. The euphoria of something new overwhelms them to the point where they ignore all the warts, but one day that euphoria will wear off, and they will realize there are warts. They may have more money, but they might not be happy. Then what, will they start hiking their skirt again?

Just speaking for myself, I've already said why I'M here: many of you have strong opinions on the Big 12 and conference realignment. I too have strong (but often opposing) views on those things. I come here because I live in the area (and am somewhat familiar with your program) and I enjoy hearing from those who disagree with me.

As I've also said, you seem to have more than your share of level heads around here. I try to stay on topic, explain my views as best I can, be respectful of you and of ISU, etc.

I also realize that my time here is short; most Cyclones' limited interest in a Missouri fan's view is going to wane even more soon, and by March Madness will disappear completely. I get that.

So we enjoy the debate while it lasts, knowing that none of us can do anything about the outcome. But it's still enjoyable.

 

[HoopsTournament]

Just speaking for myself, I've already said why I'M here: many of you have strong opinions on the Big 12 and conference realignment. I too have strong (but often opposing) views on those things. I come here because I live in the area (and am somewhat familiar with your program) and I enjoy hearing from those who disagree with me.

As I've also said, you seem to have more than your share of level heads around here. I try to stay on topic, explain my views as best I can, be respectful of you and of ISU, etc.

I also realize that my time here is short; most Cyclones' limited interest in a Missouri fan's view is going to wane even more soon, and by March Madness will disappear completely. I get that.

So we enjoy the debate while it lasts, knowing that none of us can do anything about the outcome. But it's still enjoyable.

Right. We will only have interest in the teams that are in the tournament. So you are right, we won't have any interest in Mizzou.

 

[weR138]

Just speaking for myself, I've already said why I'M here: many of you have strong opinions on the Big 12 and conference realignment. I too have strong (but often opposing) views on those things. I come here because I live in the area (and am somewhat familiar with your program) and I enjoy hearing from those who disagree with me.

As I've also said, you seem to have more than your share of level heads around here. I try to stay on topic, explain my views as best I can, be respectful of you and of ISU, etc.

I also realize that my time here is short; most Cyclones' limited interest in a Missouri fan's view is going to wane even more soon, and by March Madness will disappear completely. I get that.

So we enjoy the debate while it lasts, knowing that none of us can do anything about the outcome. But it's still enjoyable.

Which debate is that?

 

[Incyte]

The only people that have been saying that the tournament is moving is media, twitter and message board posters. NO ONE in the conference has made any statements about the tournament moving. So using something that media, etc. says and not the conference and it's schools says to conclude dysfunction about the conference is completely flawed logic. It points to dysfunction about the media, twitter and message boards.

As much as you don't like it there is no way the tourny stays in kc. That's a lot of tax money you are giving to a state that just gave you the middle finger. No way the big12 gives a gift like that to a non-member state.

 

[mike4cy]

Just speaking for myself, I've already said why I'M here: many of you have strong opinions on the Big 12 and conference realignment. I too have strong (but often opposing) views on those things. I come here because I live in the area (and am somewhat familiar with your program) and I enjoy hearing from those who disagree with me.

As I've also said, you seem to have more than your share of level heads around here. I try to stay on topic, explain my views as best I can, be respectful of you and of ISU, etc.

I also realize that my time here is short; most Cyclones' limited interest in a Missouri fan's view is going to wane even more soon, and by March Madness will disappear completely. I get that.

So we enjoy the debate while it lasts, knowing that none of us can do anything about the outcome. But it's still enjoyable.

I hope the Tigers are ready for a beatdown in Hilton this year.

 

[Mizzoulander]

The only people that have been saying that the tournament is moving is media, twitter and message board posters. NO ONE in the conference has made any statements about the tournament moving. So using something that media, etc. says and not the conference and it's schools says to conclude dysfunction about the conference is completely flawed logic. It points to dysfunction about the media, twitter and message boards.

And they won't, Hoops. The tourney's locked into KC until 2013, I think. The first we'll hear about it from the conference is when the next set of tourney dates and locations is announced in a year or so. There's no reason to address that situation now, especially with new members on the way.

But what do you want to bet on the likelihood of KC remaining a Big 12 destination beyond that time? When 3 of the northernmost schools have left the conference? (to be fair, only MU brought a sizeable contingent of fans to KC)

The Big 12 has seldom made an effort to accomodate its northern schools. What's the likelihood they'll start now when 2 of the most vocal critics have left?

Bill Self, by himself, doesn't have enough "juice" with the conference to pull this off.

 

[Mizzoulander]

As much as you don't like it there is no way the tourny stays in kc. That's a lot of tax money you are giving to a state that just gave you the middle finger. No way the big12 gives a gift like that to a non-member state.

I really don't think that the Big 12 reacts this way. It's not just a "Screw Missouri" thing.

Put it this way, if it were KU leaving (or KSU), and Missouri was staying, they'd still stop playing the tourney in KC. Why?

They'd SAY that the loss of some fan interest in the area justifies moving it further south. But the real reason?

Anything Worth Having is Worth Having in Texas. (or OKC...that's all right, too)

 

[mt85]

Just speaking for myself, I've already said why I'M here: many of you have strong opinions on the Big 12 and conference realignment. I too have strong (but often opposing) views on those things. I come here because I live in the area (and am somewhat familiar with your program) and I enjoy hearing from those who disagree with me.

As I've also said, you seem to have more than your share of level heads around here. I try to stay on topic, explain my views as best I can, be respectful of you and of ISU, etc.

I also realize that my time here is short; most Cyclones' limited interest in a Missouri fan's view is going to wane even more soon, and by March Madness will disappear completely. I get that.

So we enjoy the debate while it lasts, knowing that none of us can do anything about the outcome. But it's still enjoyable.

We have no control in this situation, yet we are the ones that stand to be damaged as a result. Therefore, we probably aren't the right audience for validating your arguments for leaving.

 

[HoopsTournament]

I really don't think that the Big 12 reacts this way. It's not just a "Screw Missouri" thing.

Put it this way, if it were KU leaving (or KSU), and Missouri was staying, they'd still stop playing the tourney in KC. Why?

They'd SAY that the loss of some fan interest in the area justifies moving it further south. But the real reason?

Anything Worth Having is Worth Having in Texas. (or OKC...that's all right, too)

I absolutely think the tournament will be in OKC a lot more, but if you are using fan interest as an argument, then KC beats out Dallas hands down. ISU, KU and KSU provide enough fan interest to fill Sprint Center. Texas teams are waiting for the spring game. And OSU fans will also travel to KC. I think that it will end up being OKC and KC on a rotation.

 

[HoopsTournament]

And they won't, Hoops. The tourney's locked into KC until 2013, I think. The first we'll hear about it from the conference is when the next set of tourney dates and locations is announced in a year or so. There's no reason to address that situation now, especially with new members on the way.

But what do you want to bet on the likelihood of KC remaining a Big 12 destination beyond that time? When 3 of the northernmost schools have left the conference? (to be fair, only MU brought a sizeable contingent of fans to KC)

The Big 12 has seldom made an effort to accomodate its northern schools. What's the likelihood they'll start now when 2 of the most vocal critics have left?

Bill Self, by himself, doesn't have enough "juice" with the conference to pull this off.

Also you missed my main point. Don't use media statements to conclude conference dysfunction.

 

[Mizzoulander]

Also you missed my main point. Don't use media statements to conclude conference dysfunction.

Just to be clear: are you saying that Big 12 conference dysfunction is a fabrication by the MEDIA? For what purpose?

I think it's hard to argue that the Big 12 has been well-governed for the past 15 years. That's not to say that it will ALWAYS be poorly run, or that it is on the verge of collapse.

But do you believe that old Chuck Neinas can come in and fix Beebe's mess in 6 weeks? And now everything's fine amongst the remaining members?

If that is true, let me ask: did you feel equally confident last year, when we were all assured that the Big 12 had a bright future with 10 teams who were committed to the conference?

 

[RayShimley]

As much as you don't like it there is no way the tourny stays in kc. That's a lot of tax money you are giving to a state that just gave you the middle finger. No way the big12 gives a gift like that to a non-member state.

This is the $$ I was talking about. You said yourself that the B12 will maintain the TV market of KC with or without Mizzou due to its proximity to KU, so that is irrelevant in terms of TV money for the B12 tournament.

KU and KSU are free to schedule games in the Sprint Center or Arrowhead, but that is up to them and their opponent, not the B12 conference.

Here's a look at how KC is becoming further and further isolated from the rest of the B12, while Dallas and OKC are becoming more and more central. With Mizzou gone there will be only 5 of the original Big 8 members left and 4 SWC members and whatever tradition we have of playing there gets more and more distant.

 

[HoopsTournament]

Just to be clear: are you saying that Big 12 conference dysfunction is a fabrication by the MEDIA? For what purpose?

I think it's hard to argue that the Big 12 has been well-governed for the past 15 years. That's not to say that it will ALWAYS be poorly run, or that it is on the verge of collapse.

But do you believe that old Chuck Neinas can come in and fix Beebe's mess in 6 weeks? And now everything's fine amongst the remaining members?

If that is true, let me ask: did you feel equally confident last year, when we were all assured that the Big 12 had a bright future with 10 teams who were committed to the conference?

I agree that the Big 12 was poorly run. But the remaining 9 schools have had no reported issues that they disagree on. So any dysfunction right now is based on two things: media overreaction and the University of Missouri.

And the purpose: many members of media want Big 12 to fail. That includes those who have predicted it, A&M fans, Nebraska fans, Mizzou fans and Iowa fans.

 

[HoopsTournament]

This is the $$ I was talking about. You said yourself that the B12 will maintain the TV market of KC with or without Mizzou due to its proximity to KU, so that is irrelevant in terms of TV money for the B12 tournament.

KU and KSU are free to schedule games in the Sprint Center or Arrowhead, but that is up to them and their opponent, not the B12 conference.

Here's a look at how KC is becoming further and further isolated from the rest of the B12, while Dallas and OKC are becoming more and more central. With Mizzou gone there will be only 5 of the original Big 8 members left and 4 SWC members and whatever tradition we have of playing there gets more and more distant.

Which is exactly the reason why OKC will also host tournament, but KC will also. The two will rotate and Dallas gets FB title.

 

[alarson]

Which is exactly the reason why OKC will also host tournament, but KC will also. The two will rotate and Dallas gets FB title.

Yep. And this is how things are probably headed regardless of whether Mizzou leaves. Which i'm fine with. I love having it close in KC, but OKC was also a fine location for it with both arenas right across from each other. Should never have it in dallas again though. Leave that to football.

 

[RayShimley]

Which is exactly the reason why OKC will also host tournament, but KC will also. The two will rotate and Dallas gets FB title.

I hope you are right, and I could see that being a compromise.

 

[royhobbs09]

You're cherry-picking, Hobbs. You could have picked Nebraska, UWash, or Tennessee...all northern outposts in southern-based football conferences. Except they've all won championships. ISU, Wazzou, and UK have never competed for championships in football (as far as I can remember), but that has more to do with history, resources, and neighboring programs than with relative location.

I'll respect the Texas recruiting argument, and I hope Mizzou dumps the O-O-C MAC teams we've played (Bowling Green, Miami OH, Ball St.) and starts scheduling some home-and-homes with North Texas, UTEP, Rice, etc. Arkansas has managed to have some success recruiting outside ofTexas. Maybe we will too.

Except that they were not the Northernmost members. Regardless, let's use your teams. I don't think anyone would seriously deny that Nebraska's (and also Colorado's) fortunes declined in the Big 12 compared to the Big 8. A change that coincided with them becoming more Northern members in a conference that included more Southern based members. Tennessee's success has also dropped significantly over the past decade compared to the 1990s, maybe adding South Carolina has not been good for them. UWash has declined throughout the last decade and its program has gotten passed in the pecking order by Oregon and Stanford. Even Michigan has experienced decline over the past decade compared to decades past. Modern recruits want to play where it is warm.

Sure, tradition, facilities, fan support and historical success matter (btw, compare Mizzou to the SEC in those as well), but the Northernmost team in any conference is at a major disadvantage against its peers in FB and baseball. I can see A&M thinking they could compete in the SEC. I cannot see why anyone rational would believe that Mizzou will compete better in the SEC than in the Big 12.

 

[CloneAbuse]

Isn't Missouri gone yet?!?!? ATTENTION WHORES!!! They love being the one holding it all up. Go now and become irrelevant. Haith will soon take their MBB program to new depths and Pinkel's whiny *** can finally be exposed. I'll actually root for Chizik when those two match-up...who would've thought that was possible...rooting for Chizik as an ISU alum!!!!

Having gone to the Louisville homecoming game last year...I'd love to make that road trip to see the Clones play there and the Yum Center is phenomenal...would be the premier basketball arena in the conference. WVU...meh...whatever, but equal to Misery...Cincy/BYU....sounds good. So....GTFO Misery were ready to start anew and let's talk in 10 years....see how things work out....until then go to your new conference members boards and convince them of your relevancy....you're trying so hard here and no one gives a flyin' ****!!!!!!