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Sseing Des Moines

Aclone

Aclone

Well-Known Member
Dec 14, 2007
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Des Moines, Ia.
Starting my first vacation in years with a two night stopover in Denver. That was...eye opening.

Just on my trip last evening several blocks along one street, from Union Station to my hotel, I was surprised by the vibrancy. Places to shop, places to eat everywhere. People everywhere. The (free) bus was packed.

It really struck me that Denver is downtown Des Moines’ wet dream.

Yep, I even mean scaled to size. Aside from the little bit of Court Avenue, Des Moines at that time of night is a handful of people walking their dogs, and obnoxious kids on street corners.

Long way to go.
 
Aclone said:
Starting my first vacation in years with a two night stopover in Denver. That was...eye opening.

Just on my trip last evening several blocks along one street, from Union Station to my hotel, I was surprised by the vibrancy. Places to shop, places to eat everywhere. People everywhere. The (free) bus was packed.

It really struck me that Denver is downtown Des Moines’ wet dream.

Yep, I even mean scaled to size. Aside from the little bit of Court Avenue, Des Moines at that time of night is a handful of people walking their dogs, and obnoxious kids on street corners.

Long way to go.
Click to expand...

Color me shocked but you mean to tell me some cities are better than others? You're breaking new ground on this post. Whats the purpose of this other to to shame Des Moines? Might also help they have 2.8 million people in their metro area compared to 3.2 million in the entire state of Iowa.

The Broncos, Rockies, and Nuggets certainly dont hurt the downtown area either, nor does the beautiful scenery.
 
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Aclone said:
Starting my first vacation in years with a two night stopover in Denver. That was...eye opening.

Just on my trip last evening several blocks along one street, from Union Station to my hotel, I was surprised by the vibrancy. Places to shop, places to eat everywhere. People everywhere. The (free) bus was packed.

It really struck me that Denver is downtown Des Moines’ wet dream.

Yep, I even mean scaled to size. Aside from the little bit of Court Avenue, Des Moines at that time of night is a handful of people walking their dogs, and obnoxious kids on street corners.

Long way to go.
Click to expand...
You didn't even mention the dispensaries and cat cafes.
 
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A downtown of that size will of course have more life. Des Moines is funny in that our downtown is being redeveloped for pretty much millennials and not a more diverse cross-section of people. Des Moines is also not set up to allow robust single-family neighborhoods on the fringes of downtown so that people can walk downtown to hang out. I would also argue that a nice summer night while the I-Cubs play is more vibrant than a Tuesday in December. Finally, the way the DSM metro is structured the suburbs have no incentive or reason to help DSM proper. So they compete for the project and funding and whatever else is being built so we see pockets of development everywhere and not in downtown. If cities worked together we could see way more efficient growth.
 
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Downtown DM went a loooooooong time without trying hard to get people to live down there.

I personally love the different areas that are East Village, Downtown, Western Gateway, Ingersoll, Valley Junction. They are all unique in their own respects and growing.
 
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Aclone said:
Starting my first vacation in years with a two night stopover in Denver. That was...eye opening.

Just on my trip last evening several blocks along one street, from Union Station to my hotel, I was surprised by the vibrancy. Places to shop, places to eat everywhere. People everywhere. The (free) bus was packed.

It really struck me that Denver is downtown Des Moines’ wet dream.

Yep, I even mean scaled to size. Aside from the little bit of Court Avenue, Des Moines at that time of night is a handful of people walking their dogs, and obnoxious kids on street corners.

Long way to go.
Click to expand...

Kinda like the way you have kicked the hornet's nest here. :rolleyes:

giphy.gif
 
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mtowncyclone13 said:
A downtown of that size will of course have more life. Des Moines is funny in that our downtown is being redeveloped for pretty much millennials and not a more diverse cross-section of people. Des Moines is also not set up to allow robust single-family neighborhoods on the fringes of downtown so that people can walk downtown to hang out. I would also argue that a nice summer night while the I-Cubs play is more vibrant than a Tuesday in December. Finally, the way the DSM metro is structures the suburbs have no incentive or reason to help DSM proper. So they compete for the project and funding and whatever else is begin built so we see pockets of development everywhere and not in downtown. If cities worked together we could see way more efficient growth.
Click to expand...
You hit on a ton of relevant points there - but I think the one that is far and away the most important is emphasis placed on single-family homes in the DSM metro is the most important. Density results in vibrancy and single family homes reduce density. You need people and foot traffic to support vibrant neighborhoods. That’s hard to achieve if most of the population expects to live in a single family home, drive to wherever they’re going, and find easy, free parking when they get there.

As far as developing it “for millennials“, development needs (should) to take a longer-term view. Demographics and particularly time favor the young.
 
exCyDing said:
You hit on a ton of relevant points there - but I think the one that is far and away the most important is emphasis placed on single-family homes in the DSM metro is the most important. Density results in vibrancy and single family homes reduce density. You need people and foot traffic to support vibrant neighborhoods. That’s hard to achieve if most of the population expects to live in a single family home, drive to wherever they’re going, and find easy, free parking when they get there.

As far as developing it “for millennials“, development needs (should) to take a longer-term view. Demographics and particularly time favor the young.
Click to expand...


Cap guy will mention that we all need to move inner city, live in high rise apartment buildings, ditch our cars and hate lawns. This will allow cities to be the best they can be.
 
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exCyDing said:
You hit on a ton of relevant points there - but I think the one that is far and away the most important is emphasis placed on single-family homes in the DSM metro is the most important. Density results in vibrancy and single family homes reduce density. You need people and foot traffic to support vibrant neighborhoods. That’s hard to achieve if most of the population expects to live in a single family home, drive to wherever they’re going, and find easy, free parking when they get there.

As far as developing it “for millennials“, development needs (should) to take a longer-term view. Demographics and particularly time favor the young.
Click to expand...

Where I come from just banned single-family zoning. You can still build single-family, but developers probably won't since they can get more bang for their buck building duplexes. My parents live in a neighborhood with a mix of college students, families, roommates, and older folks in densities from single-family homes to large apartments. I am certain in the DSM area we only see single family homes or huge apartments because that's what the local zoning code allows for. People think they want that because that's all their is. You don't know what you don't know.

I'd much prefer a neighborhoods like a forest, where growth and regrowth happens on a small scale. Most neighborhoods today are built like a TV set, where if one part goes out the while thing is broken. Modern neighborhoods also tend to decline at the same time since there is no small-scale ownership or commercial property. Ankeny is an example of small businesses being forced to rent in a strip mall or build a brand new huge building with storm water ponds and massive parking. In DSM they can buy a small building as they see fit and open their shop, kind of like Valley Junction. /rant
 
BCClone said:
Cap guy will mention that we all need to move inner city, live in high rise apartment buildings, ditch our cars and hate lawns. This will allow cities to be the best they can be.
Click to expand...

Why do you think they only options are single family houses on .25 acres or high-rise apartments? the house I grew up on was .08 acres with a corner store, Subway, and Walgreens down the block. We walked their all the time. A public park was down the street if we wanted to go ice skating or play soccer - we didn't need a massive backyard for those things. Everyone should be allowed to move where they want but it's foolish to think there are only two options (in the suburbs there usually is only two options, though). Also don't be fooled into thinking your 100' of road frontage can be supported by your property tax. It's subsidized by new development in a giant ponzi scheme.
 
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