Ok what am i missing with our recruiting?

[PabloDiablo]

Seems to me that the kids with multiple BCS offers might not commit to us early in the process unless they have some tie to ISU. I would think many of our earlier commitments would be kids with few D1 offers that we have evaluated at camp or that some coaching connection has led us to.

http://iowastate.rivals.com/offerlist.asp?SID=916&School=32&Sport=1&Year=2013

Here you go fellas, We have offered several good looking recruits with all kinds of offers and stars but those guys are going to take their time to evaluate all the offers, make visits and commit. These kids are doing their research and have to be sold on a program like Iowa State over the long term in their recruiting to commit.

Take Richy Klepal for example.

http://rivals.yahoo.com/iowastate/football/recruiting/player-Richy-Klepal-134368

Arizona, Fla St., Georgia, Miami, Mich St, ole Miss, Miss St., Mizz, UNC, South Carolina, USC all offered among others. You think that kid is just going to jump on the Rhoads bandwagon because we beat OSU last year. He would need a lot of attention and really like what we are doing over time to go with us.

 

[Clones85']

I don't even know if partial qualifiers exist in D-1 at all. I thought that was done in about 2002. I am almost certain BSU hasn't allowed them since 02.

They do exist but most teams can't take on the kids. BSU might not anymore. I know at one time they did.

 

[ribsnwhiskey]

I didnt say i did...in fact i clearly said i was curious as im not a recruiting expert. Most people on earth start a thread asking a question bc they want more information on something...which i respectfully i think did....MOST people responded with outstanding info, and private messages...which is good enough for me.....velo and yourself?..im not sure why you came in the thread at all to be honest...not bashing but neither of you really had much to offer.

I would say its fair to judge a kid RIGHT NOW by what his other offers were and by a respected recruiting website says about a kid....i dont think thats out of line at all. I mean if you want to judge them all as great because the messiah CPR recruited them, and he can do no wrong in your eyes....thats ok too. We just dont all operate that way.

Nevermind. Your skull is too thick to penetrate at this point.

 

[weR138]

Building a football program from the ground up is a long tough process. Doing it in Ames, Iowa is even harder. Don't kid yourself. We have a pathetically small amount of talent in state and in the surrounding area. We are forced to hit TX, CA, and FL hard. It is very tough to convince kids from those states to come way North to Iowa where it is cold and their family will rarely get to come to games. We end up losing those guys to similar or slightly less prestigious in state schools.

Not disagreeing but Snyder has thrived at the ONE program that was historically worse than us in the Big 8 and you can supplant Manhattan for Ames.

I kind of bristle at this excuse (not saying you're making excuses) when Majors and Bruce had success here.

 

[kberyldial]

Now THAT's a zinger.

Obviously in jest but seriously how can anyone in their right mind question our recruiting or have expectations? Do people not realize we have one of the worst football traditions in the country? IOWA STATE has won 9 games ONE TIME in more than 100 years. This isn't a go 6-6 for 3 straight years and start pulling blue-chippers to Ames Iowa program! So on to the next point. Ames Iowa. I love the place. Some of the best years of my life there. The town sucks man. Plain and simple. Has anyone ever been to Madison or Columbus or Austin or Los Angeles or Boulder or hundreds of other places that have more to offer. The weather sucks. If you grew up in Florida or Texas - this snow and 0 degree weather is for the birds man. All that said - Rhoads is doing things that have never been done before!!! It's freaking amazing!! It's called coaching. Recruit decent kids and coach them up. We won't ever get classes of kids the the powers get. At least not in THREE YEARS TIME OF 500 FOOTBALL!!!

 

[mt85]

Let me do a little math for matty, and the other whiners that are crying about our recruiting. There are 16,047 high school football teams in America according to answers.com. For the sake of illustration, I will assume that on average there are 10 seniors per team. That equates to 160,047 high school seniors that play football.

If someone was going to properly evaluate each of the players for the purpose of ranking them against each other, how much time would be required to make an accurate assessment? 1 minute, 15 minutes, 1/2 hour, 1 hour?

I will assume the most preposterous answer of 1 minute per player. That would then equate to 2,667 hours of time necessary to perform a 1 minute review of each player. That is just the time necessary to review their highlight film for one minute. That doesn't factor in the time necessary to rank each of these player relative to each other, the time necessary to get the film used to review each of these players or the time necessary to publish the information on their web sites.

Lets assume all these other tasks take and additional 5 minutes per player. That is an additional 13,337 hours of time required or a total of 16,004 hours.

An average work year is roughly 2,000 hours. It would take 8 people working full time to accomplish a one minute review of each player on an annual basis.

This simple analysis is solely for the purpose of illustrating that it is impossible for sites like rivals, scout and espn to realistically review and rank all of the players across the country. Sadly there will always be saps willing to buy what they are selling.

How insecure must people be to place more trust in a bunch of people that make money running a web site over coaches that make a living based on their hands on ability to evaluate, recruit and teach players?

 

[CyCloned]

I am also surprised by the non-rated guys this early in the recruiting season. There must be something about these guys the coaches are seeing that recruiting gurus and other coaches are not. If our coaches are correct, I would expect some of these lower or non-ranked guys to suddenly be more desirable to other teams this Fall.

 

[cyhiphopp]

Right..but the point is...we could probably come up with...i dunno...10 schools that have had exceptional seasons that are in terrible locations or have no football history at all.

It was some time ago...but Tulane went undefeated...like i said Kansas was really good few years back...just not sure i can buy that line of thinking.

Please name a few more schools in horrible locations with no football history that don't play in one of the worst possible conferences.

Tulane? Put this years ISU squad in place of Tulanes, agains the awesome competition they face and we could probably go undefeated as well. Is Tulane still doing well? Oh, you say they complete suck? Well what the heck happened to those awesome seasons and talent they had.

 

[CYUL8R]

...

The offers and interest that these guys have now is not necessarily the only offers and interest that they would have 4 months from now. We will never know either, because if they are fully commited, they may stop talking to other schools all together and not show any further offers or interest. Now, if CPR did as some of you wanted and waited a few months before offering a guy like Brown, he may have impressed USF and a couple of other southern schools in his first few games as a senior. He could then have 4 other solid offers and decide to stay closer to home. CPR is taking the risk to offer and go after him hard now so he can lock him up early.

Agree with this 100%. The ONLY way that ISU is going to find the Knott's and Klein's of the world is to offer early, take a bit of a risk, and land them. We are not Oklahoma, USC, Alabama, etc...

Now, once we get to a place (if we do) where we are winning 8,9,10 games a season CONSISTENTLY then you could make the argument that we can just call up a 5 star recruit and they'll seriously listen. Until then, forget it. If you don't agree, you obviously don't get how this whole football thing works.

Love ISU, love CPR...but this is a FUN place to play - not an ELITE place to play. Not yet.

 

[Tre4ISU]

What year are we comparing them too?

When they got here. That's about the only fair way to do it.

 

[cyhiphopp]

Not disagreeing but Snyder has thrived at the ONE program that was historically worse than us in the Big 8 and you can supplant Manhattan for Ames.

I kind of bristle at this excuse (not saying you're making excuses) when Majors and Bruce had success here.

Snyder built up KSU at a different time. He did so with a lot of JuCos and speicifcally JuCos who could not get into other schools. He also took more than three years to do so. KSU is ONE very good example of a bad school that built up and sustained for a long time. However, look at what happened as soon as Snyder retired. They went in the tank. When he finally dies they may have to just stop playing football.

Majors and Bruce had their success for a VERY limited time a VERY long time ago. College football doesn't work that way anymore.

They also quickly dissapeared as soon as they had that success.

 

[mattyice]

http://iowastate.rivals.com/offerlist.asp?SID=916&School=32&Sport=1&Year=2013

Here you go fellas, We have offered several good looking recruits with all kinds of offers and stars but those guys are going to take their time to evaluate all the offers, make visits and commit. These kids are doing their research and have to be sold on a program like Iowa State over the long term in their recruiting to commit.

Take Richy Klepal for example.

http://rivals.yahoo.com/iowastate/football/recruiting/player-Richy-Klepal-134368

Arizona, Fla St., Georgia, Miami, Mich St, ole Miss, Miss St., Mizz, UNC, South Carolina, USC all offered among others. You think that kid is just going to jump on the Rhoads bandwagon because we beat OSU last year. He would need a lot of attention and really like what we are doing over time to go with us.

Cyhiphop: Good post....well thought out.

Pablo: Excellent....thats good to see.

Im sure CPR knows what hes doing.....just is somewhat ....not alarming or concerning..but curious given the momentum we should have.

 

[heitclone]

I'm not overly thrilled about the class so far but I'd think that the coaching staff pays no attention to stars when it comes to offering kids. Labeling with stars is for fans, and the media to evaluate recruiting classes, but that doesn't mean to they don't accurately project what kind of potential a kid has.

 

[weR138]

Snyder built up KSU at a different time. He did so with a lot of JuCos and speicifcally JuCos who could not get into other schools. He also took more than three years to do so. KSU is ONE very good example of a bad school that built up and sustained for a long time. However, look at what happened as soon as Snyder retired. They went in the tank. When he finally dies they may have to just stop playing football.

Majors and Bruce had their success for a VERY limited time a VERY long time ago. College football doesn't work that way anymore.

They also quickly dissapeared as soon as they had that success.

All true. And to be clear I fully support PR and like our recruits. My point is that regardless of when Snyder, Majors or Bruce were putting their programs in place they had to contend with a hostile environment around them. I guess what I mean is that PR can have success here contrary to what hawk fans will tell you...

Also, I think we were victims of circumstance with Bruce, fwiw. Majors, no.

 

[cyhiphopp]

Let me do a little math for matty

...

Very good post MT.

Do you know why rivals doesn't have a ranking for Brown? Because they've never heard of him. They aren't going to eveluate a player unless a lot of teams are after him. Also, not every coach that would be interested in Brown has seen him play yet. CPR saw him play and liked what he saw enough to go after him hard. End of story.

Now if Brown has a really good year this fall, Rivals may all of a sudden decide to give him a 3 star ranking. We just don't know yet.


Rivals has absolutely no ability to see every high school seniors film so there are a TON of players who are good enough to play BCS football that they have never heard of before. Coaches on the other hand have contacts and know what they are looking for. Wally and Shane probably heard from someone in FL that Brown was worth a look. They saw tape and offered him a scholly.

 

[Clones85']

When they got here. That's about the only fair way to do it.

2009
QB- Arnaud
RB- ARob
WR- Hamilton
WR- Sed Johnson/Jake Williams
WR- Darks/Josh Lenz
TE- Colin Franklin
OL- Hicks edit actually it was Haughton here
OL - Stephens
OL - Alvarez
OL - Lamaak
OL - Stephens

DE- Parker
DE- Lyle
DT- Frere
DT- Alburtis
LB- Jesse Smtih
LB - Fred Garrin
LB - Josh Raven
CB- Leonard Johnson
CB- Terran Benton edit Kennard Banks
S - David Sims
FS- James Smith

Not a difference in talent minus the Linebackers. Which one was brought in by Rhoads and 1 by Chizik. Starting group really is a push.

Depth is the difference. ARob's backup was Jeremiah Schwartz or Beau Blankenship. Our WR backups were Lonzie Range, Houston Jones, Jason Carlson, etc. That starting line in 2009 was probably better than our starting line going into this year but that line had no depth. Matt Hulbert? Tre Basinger? Zack Spears? Not good.

We are in a better position to move along after an injury when we were when they took over. James White stepped in last year and we won some games. Lictenberg, Gannon, Albert Gary, Barnett, Irving.

But I really don't see much difference in 1st string talent, minus the LB's

 

[Cycl1]

I think our definition of momentum is also seen through cardinal and gold lenses. To us, we knocked off nebraska at home for the first time in 30 odd years, we beat texas, and we knocked off #2 OSU, and a bowl win vs minn. This means lots for us as fans, but for a recruit they see a bunch of .500 seasons with a bowl win vs a mid big10 team, some impressive Paul Rhoads speeches, and a great upset vs OSU. The other thigns we see as huge turn arounds, no florida recruit cares about ( or probably even knows about the nebraska game, or if they do it is for nebraska having so many turnovers), maybe a die hard texas fan remembers us beating texas.

 

[Tre4ISU]

2009
QB- Arnaud
RB- ARob
WR- Hamilton
WR- Sed Johnson/Jake Williams
WR- Darks/Josh Lenz
TE- Colin Franklin
OL- Hicks
OL - Stephens
OL - Alvarez
OL - Lamaak
OL - Stephens

DE- Parker
DE- Lyle
DT- Frere
DT- Alburtis
LB- Jesse Smtih
LB - Fred Garrin
LB - Josh Raven
CB- Leonard Johnson
CB- Terran Benton
S - David Sims
FS- James Smith

Not a difference in talent minus the Linebackers. Which one was brought in by Rhoads and 1 by Chizik. Starting group really is a push.

Depth is the difference. ARob's backup was Jeremiah Schwartz or Beau Blankenship. Our WR backups were Lonzie Range, Houston Jones, Jason Carlson, etc. That starting line in 2009 was probably better than our starting line going into this year but that line had no depth. Matt Hulbert? Tre Basinger? Zack Spears? Not good.

We are in a better position to move along after an injury when we were when they took over. James White stepped in last year and we won some games. Lictenberg, Gannon, Albert Gary, Barnett, Irving.

But I really don't see much difference in 1st string talent, minus the LB's

I'll take any one of our receivers over those guys (Lenz obviously excluded) which brings to a point. You just said the other day Lenz was not the best receiver on our team and may have agreed Gary was been better late. So a freshman Lenz started on that team and now he's probably our third best. The Oline is probably slightly unfair to judge because the type of lineman has shifted a little. I will take our starting Dline in a heartbeat over that one. I think JW is better than Smith and Sims was good but I think we can match that this year. Benton would not start at corner on this team, IMO.

 

[mt85]

Very good post MT.

Do you know why rivals doesn't have a ranking for Brown? Because they've never heard of him. They aren't going to eveluate a player unless a lot of teams are after him. Also, not every coach that would be interested in Brown has seen him play yet. CPR saw him play and liked what he saw enough to go after him hard. End of story.

Now if Brown has a really good year this fall, Rivals may all of a sudden decide to give him a 3 star ranking. We just don't know yet.


Rivals has absolutely no ability to see every high school seniors film so there are a TON of players who are good enough to play BCS football that they have never heard of before. Coaches on the other hand have contacts and know what they are looking for. Wally and Shane probably heard from someone in FL that Brown was worth a look. They saw tape and offered him a scholly.

I would be willing to wager they saw more then tape. They most likely were down in Florida in the fall and/or spring and evaluated him in person, but hey since Rivals hasn't heard of him that is way more important (sarcasm intended).

 

[Clones85']

I'll take any one of our receivers over those guys (Lenz obviously excluded) which brings to a point. You just said the other day Lenz was not the best receiver on our team and may have agreed Gary was been better late. So a freshman Lenz started on that team and now he's probably our third best. The Oline is probably slightly unfair to judge because the type of lineman has shifted a little. I will take our starting Dline in a heartbeat over that one. I think JW is better than Smith and Sims was good but I think we can match that this year. Benton would not start at corner on this team, IMO.

He didn't start on that team. Darks did. Reynolds did until he broke his leg. Hamilton did who I wasn't a huge fan of but he has produced more than anyone we have now not named Lenz. Seriously what WR of ours this year has shown to be any better than Darks was going into that year? Hamilton? They haven't. Going into that year we thought Darius Darks was going to break every ISU WR record there was.

Arob would start over White. White is the guy as of right now
KO starts over anyone. Lamaak starts. Haughton starts. Stephens starts.
Arnaud starts?
Lyle would be our best DE this year
Sims and Washington are a push. That's coming directly from the mouth of a defensive coach
Leonard starts
Kennard Banks probably doesn't start over Reeves
Collin Franklin starts

So some guys would start from 2009. Some from this year. It's a push. Like I said. Talent isn't that different in the 1st group. It's the talent on the 2nd and 3rd teams that is knight and day.