COLUMN: Why Bill Self should be the Big 12 CotY
- Thread starter ChrisMWilliams
- Start date
I do not care who wins the award; I just find the moving goalposts of the arguments to be a bit odd. It just seems kinda dumb to basically eliminate the top teams from consideration since they are expected to be good.
I was more impressed with Self's job last year after watching them against Kentucky and Temple than this year.
Ok, TTU isn't nearly as good as KU. But you've got to admit that compared to where they were last year, they're vastly improved.
Agree. CW's argument for Self is fine, but how KU won another title doesn't trump the fact it was the expectation regardless of the way it happened. I still believe Self keeps getting the nod based on cumulative success, not season-to-season. It's like OU finishing 2nd as expected, and giving award to Kruger because of fruition of roster he built (Hield, Spangler, et. al.)
I also think there's another factor: if Big 12 hadn't been so deep and cutthroat since going to the round robin, I bet Kansas would've been dethroned at least once. KU has been able to do just enough to stay on top (it helps they rarely lose at home).
My voting for COY would be:
1. Smith
2. Huggins
3. Self
4. Smart
There is still a chance Tech could have a losing big 12 record. Would people give it to him then?
So was there any scenario this season in which Self would have deserved CotY? As others have mentioned, it's more or less impossible to "exceed expectations" when you are predicted to finish first. Is Self just permanently SOL with regard to this award until the conference streak ends?
Another thing to consider:
Self: 8-0 home, 6-3 road
Huggins: 7-2 home, 5-3 road
Kruger: 8-1 home, 3-5 road
Smart:7-2 home, 3-5 road
Drew: 4-4 home, 6-3 road
Prohm: 7-2 home, 3-5 road
Smith: 5-3 home, 3-6 road
Weber: 4-5 home, 1-7 road
Ford: 3-5 home, 0-9 road
Johnson: 2-6 home, 0-9 road
When winning on the road is always the toughest thing to do, I think you need to look at the coaches who are above .500 on the road, which leaves you with Self, Huggins and Drew. I think that and looking at pre-season rankings leaves Higgins as the obvious choice.
Bill Self is easily the best coach in the league because of what he has done over a long period of time, but the best coaching job THIS YEAR is Huggins.
Self: 8-0 home, 6-3 road
Huggins: 7-2 home, 5-3 road
Kruger: 8-1 home, 3-5 road
Smart:7-2 home, 3-5 road
Drew: 4-4 home, 6-3 road
Prohm: 7-2 home, 3-5 road
Smith: 5-3 home, 3-6 road
Weber: 4-5 home, 1-7 road
Ford: 3-5 home, 0-9 road
Johnson: 2-6 home, 0-9 road
When winning on the road is always the toughest thing to do, I think you need to look at the coaches who are above .500 on the road, which leaves you with Self, Huggins and Drew. I think that and looking at pre-season rankings leaves Higgins as the obvious choice.
Bill Self is easily the best coach in the league because of what he has done over a long period of time, but the best coaching job THIS YEAR is Huggins.
That's not moving the goalposts. That's just someone stating their opinion on how the award should be determined, ie outperforming expectations
Sure...if preseason expectations all played out, Self is coach of the year. However, you have a few teams that will finish well above of where they were predicted, including what will be the second place team.
Now I am confused. Which of these guys should win it?
LOL! Every time I was meaning to type Huggins I was typing Higgins...thought I fixed all of them.
Tubby Smith is a solid coach and did a hell of a job this year, but coach of the year? Come on people. They are currently 8-9 in the conference and in 7th place. They finished exactly where they were expected to.
I don't understand why people discredit what Bill Self has done. Are they loaded? Sure. But why are they loaded? Because Self recruited the players and developed the players. That's the job of the coach. Why is that a strike against him when discussing him for coach of the year honors? "Hey coach, great job doing your job, but you did it so much better than everyone else, and you do it with so much consistency, that it doesn't really impress us." It's absurd.
I don't understand why people discredit what Bill Self has done. Are they loaded? Sure. But why are they loaded? Because Self recruited the players and developed the players. That's the job of the coach. Why is that a strike against him when discussing him for coach of the year honors? "Hey coach, great job doing your job, but you did it so much better than everyone else, and you do it with so much consistency, that it doesn't really impress us." It's absurd.
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So in other words, no, Self cannot win the award. There will never be a year when every single team finishes exactly where they were predicted before the season. That's fine, but don't call it CotY. Call it the "doing more with less" award or something.
I thought there was an interesting point brought up earlier in the thread comparing PotY to CotY. Why is the former simply "the player who performed the best" while the latter is something else entirely?
A coach's job is to win as many games as possible. Objectively, Self is the league coach who performed the best this year (by a comfortable margin, given that he's going to win the league by multiple games). The argument that he should be penalized for having more talent than most of his competitors is silly; recruiting those players is part of his job.
And don't give me the "Kansas recruits itself" nonsense. Go ahead and tell that to Kentucky, Indiana, and UCLA fans.
I wouldn't, and wont, argue it when Self wins it. He is most definitely deserving, and that can not be questioned. However, in this Big 12 when a coach is expected to finish 6th and pulls off a second place finish, has over a .500 record on the road at by far the most difficult program to play on the road in this conference, I think this award is in the very least debatable.
If I had a vote, it would go to Huggins, but that does not mean what Self did was awesome, I just think what Higgins did this year, based off expectations, was better.
If I had a vote, it would go to Huggins, but that does not mean what Self did was awesome, I just think what Higgins did this year, based off expectations, was better.
I'm not arguing that Self doesn't deserve the hardware this year, but I don't think that you can equate Player of the Year and Coach of the Year. If a Buddy had swapped his junior and senior seasons and regressed in several categories but was still just a little better than most of the competition in a few key stats it is doubtful that he would have won back to back POY. On the other hand if a coach wins the league and COY and graduates his top 6 players, comes back the next year and unexpected puts his team picked for the bottom half of the league in second or third place he would have a very good chance of winning it again. Expectations have to come into it a little bit.
I think that both sides of this argument are taking it to extremes just a bit.
You REALLY don't understand why people here discredit what Bill Self has done?!?
The assumption being that all preseason expectations are based on good reasons and sound research?!? Maybe the coaches were just lazy and disinterested in researching whether West Virginia and Texas Tech would be better than "expected" when they did their preseason votes. We certainly know that everyone is going to vote Self and Kansas 1st barring some type of catastrophe whether it is a reasonable assumption to make or not. Every year the preseason picks are way off on multiple teams. Maybe the preseason polls are just not very good. Why base an award off of how you do compared to them?