Give me some of what you're smokin' if you think Bill would get the same talent to West Virginia that he does to Kansas.
COLUMN: Why Bill Self should be the Big 12 CotY
- Thread starter ChrisMWilliams
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Give me some of what you're smokin' if you think Bill would get the same talent to West Virginia that he does to Kansas.
West Virginia is no different than Illinois expect for the tooth count on the fans and Self had an NBA backcourt at Illinois within two years of taking that job. It's called realism based on actual events.
Kansas doesn't get the same level of talent that UNC, Duke and Kentucky have been getting until recently with Wiggs and the like.
The last time he went to the title game he had zero McD all Americans and the bench was Teahan and Kevin Young. Compare that to what that Kentucky had on their roster at the time. I think Izzo and Self are the best coaches college basketball. Look at this year with Mason, Graham and Lucas starting. Those aren't highly recruited guys and neither was Traylor.
The last time he went to the title game he had zero McD all Americans and the bench was Teahan and Kevin Young. Compare that to what that Kentucky had on their roster at the time. I think Izzo and Self are the best coaches college basketball. Look at this year with Mason, Graham and Lucas starting. Those aren't highly recruited guys and neither was Traylor.
Agreed. Honestly, Self's system runs better when it is run by juniors and seniors. I wish he'd get out of the OAD market and target guys ranked in the 15-75 range exclusively.
This happened during the streak. Twice. The first time KU didnt return any starters, the coaches picked someone else (I cant remember who) and KU still won it.
The second time, the coaches picked KU because, well, KU.
I've read some good arguments on here for and against Self for CoY (surprisingly, most of this board seems to be a bunch of children. ISU fans on reddit much more reasonable).
But at this point, yes, the coaches are picking KU to win it out of respect IMO. And next year when Ellis is gone and Mari and Mickleson and one of Diallo/Bragg, maybe Selden, and KU is reloading, they are going to pick KU to win it again.
I admit I did not see Tubby getting Tech into the tournament this year, thats pretty remarkable, but they are going to finish the season with a sub .500 conference record. Just like everyone predicted. And since this is for conference play only, Tubby is actually pretty far down my list.
Smart is also getting a lot of hype, but he has a good squad with veteran players and good chemistry. Taylor, Felix, Yancy, Ibeh, Ridley (even though he went down) are all upper classmen that have seen success. Its not like he started with nothing, he finished middle of the road with a middle of the road team.
Huggins and Kruger are probably the two that have a good case IMO. Huggins maybe more so.
I dont expect them to ever give CoY to Self even though he has won it a couple of times, mostly because of the reasons many of you have given. Self usually has the best team and performs that way, and some coach in this league ALWAYS exceeds expectations.
West Virginia doesn't have nearly the talent instate that Illinois does every year. Yes, Bill recruited well at Illinois but your are nuts if you think Self could attract the same players to WVU that he has at Illinois and KU. Certifiable.
You really don't believe Self could recruit 3 McDAAs and 7 four star players to Morgantown like he currently has on his KU roster?
4 star guys, besides Lucas a 3 star...maybe not McD AA, but not exactly what I would call lightly recruited guys
2013-14; KU lost starters from the previous season Ben McLemore, Travis Releford, Jeff Withey, Kevin Young and Elijah Johnson and were picked tied with Okie State by the Big 12 coaches atop the Big 12: http://newsok.com/article/3891847
Yes, I do. West Virginia isn't any different than Illinois and he landed elite recruits right off the bat in Illinois. Self knows how to coach and he knows how to shmooze recruits and their parents and once you break through and start getting multiple guys to the NBA then the recruits start lining up to be the next down the pipeline.
So what? It's an easy drive to the fertile recruiting grounds of DC, Philly, NYC, Jersey, Virginia, North Carolina. A short flight to Boston, Atlanta, Florida. Self would have his fill of Top 50 talent no matter where he coached.
I can't read the link. So you are saying they still were picked to finish at the top of the league? That doesn't fit the scenario laid out. They weren't a surprise winner of the league at all. They were bringing in the overall #1 (SF), the #3 center, the #2 shooting guard and the 2010 #3 center to go along with the returning Ellis (2012 #5 PF) and Tharpe (2011 #19 PG). Winning the league wasn't any where near a surprise.
You said twice, what was the other one?
I'm not arguing that Self doesn't often deserve the COTY award, I just don't get it when KU fans are surprised when he doesn't get it every year.
how about the year after ku won the national title? 08-09 they replaced all 5 starters and still won the big 12
I'm not sure. think about this though....how can Bill Self exceed expectations if they are predicted to finish 1st every year? shouldn't that warrant some recognition how he keeps staying on top? I fully expect Bruce Weber to be COY next year because they will have low expectations and they will probably win 6-7 games in the Big 12.
And Self won Big 12 CoY that year. But yes, your point is generally that Self will basically never be picked to finish below 1st ever again so by that default vote, he won't ever win the award if it's based solely on "did you overachieve". Which is fine, Self has already won a few National CoY awards this season, so I am sure he's not too terribly broken up about it all.