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Graham Couch: Iowa Basketball is a mid-major roster

MeowingCows said:
You'll notice that you won't see me doing a lot of that, because I view recruiting as basically a numbers game. High recruits are worthless without good coaching.

ISU takes the same level of kids and achieves more with them. So, I guess I owe you a 'congrats' for recruiting good kids then horribly underachieving with them? One of the big issues I do side with regarding the recruiting, itself, is that all recruits have flaws. You can try to judge similar recruits by the severity of their flaws; Fran does a terrible job of fixing and/or hiding his players' flaws.
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I get it there are good posters here, that is why I am here. Most of you are very well informed. I just get a little irritated when it gets to be Iowa bashing season, Iowa fans reply with logical answers, but they are deemed wrong because recruit x,y,z is mid major level ect. They are just un athletic and have peaked ect. BUT ISU can improve because Prohm is just a better coach than Fran. That is not the whole truth of it. Last season was a flop by Fran and he would probably be the first to admit that. Players did not gel, coaches did not find a solution. But that happens in sports.

Next year can be different. He has shown he can improve a guys basketball skills. He has also shown flaws in his coaching philosophy. I think Fran can get these guys to improve but I am taking a wait and see approach. ISU fans on the other hand think another 14 win season is the ceiling. That is just to stir the pot putting in frankly.

ISU had its flaws too. Now you have 2 transfers and like 4 high quality guys coming in to play to go along with the current group. You have added 6 new good pieces but can only put 5 on the floor. you have 10-12 deep. How will they gel? How will they take their role? Is Prohm capable of getting these guys the promises he gave them? will their be chemistry issues? Lets not pretend ISU has not questions
 
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Thinker said:
I get it there are good posters here, that is why I am here. Most of you are very well informed. I just get a little irritated when it gets to be Iowa bashing season, Iowa fans reply with logical answers, but they are deemed wrong because recruit x,y,z is mid major level ect. They are just un athletic and have peaked ect. BUT ISU can improve because Prohm is just a better coach than Fran. That is not the whole truth of it. Last season was a flop by Fran and he would probably be the first to admit that. Players did not gel, coaches did not find a solution. But that happens in sports.

Next year can be different. He has shown he can improve a guys basketball skills. He has also shown flaws in his coaching philosophy. I think Fran can get these guys to improve but I am taking a wait and see approach. ISU fans on the other hand think another 14 win season is the ceiling. That is just to stir the pot putting in frankly.

ISU had its flaws too. Now you have 2 transfers and like 4 high quality guys coming in to play to go along with the current group. You have added 6 new good pieces but can only put 5 on the floor. you have 10-12 deep. How will they gel? How will they take their role? Is Prohm capable of getting these guys the promises he gave them? will their be chemistry issues? Lets not pretend ISU has not questions
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ISU has question marks but there is no doubt which team has more talent next year and a better coach. That is all we know right now. On top of that Fran's track record of improving players isn't very good as a whole
 
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Thinker said:
I get it there are good posters here, that is why I am here. Most of you are very well informed. I just get a little irritated when it gets to be Iowa bashing season, Iowa fans reply with logical answers, but they are deemed wrong because recruit x,y,z is mid major level ect. They are just un athletic and have peaked ect. BUT ISU can improve because Prohm is just a better coach than Fran. That is not the whole truth of it. Last season was a flop by Fran and he would probably be the first to admit that. Players did not gel, coaches did not find a solution. But that happens in sports.

Next year can be different. He has shown he can improve a guys basketball skills. He has also shown flaws in his coaching philosophy. I think Fran can get these guys to improve but I am taking a wait and see approach. ISU fans on the other hand think another 14 win season is the ceiling. That is just to stir the pot putting in frankly.

ISU had its flaws too. Now you have 2 transfers and like 4 high quality guys coming in to play to go along with the current group. You have added 6 new good pieces but can only put 5 on the floor. you have 10-12 deep. How will they gel? How will they take their role? Is Prohm capable of getting these guys the promises he gave them? will their be chemistry issues? Lets not pretend ISU has not questions
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**** Iowa
 
Thinker said:
I get it there are good posters here, that is why I am here. Most of you are very well informed. I just get a little irritated when it gets to be Iowa bashing season, Iowa fans reply with logical answers, but they are deemed wrong because recruit x,y,z is mid major level ect. They are just un athletic and have peaked ect. BUT ISU can improve because Prohm is just a better coach than Fran. That is not the whole truth of it. Last season was a flop by Fran and he would probably be the first to admit that. Players did not gel, coaches did not find a solution. But that happens in sports.

Next year can be different. He has shown he can improve a guys basketball skills. He has also shown flaws in his coaching philosophy. I think Fran can get these guys to improve but I am taking a wait and see approach. ISU fans on the other hand think another 14 win season is the ceiling. That is just to stir the pot putting in frankly.

ISU had its flaws too. Now you have 2 transfers and like 4 high quality guys coming in to play to go along with the current group. You have added 6 new good pieces but can only put 5 on the floor. you have 10-12 deep. How will they gel? How will they take their role? Is Prohm capable of getting these guys the promises he gave them? will their be chemistry issues? Lets not pretend ISU has not questions
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Ok?
 
Thinker said:
Nope

ISU 2017-2018 13-18 overall 4-14 in conference 0-10 in away games

Iowa 2017-2018 14-19 overall 4-14 in conference 1-10 in away games

Pretty comparable finishes IMO
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Equally bad. Yay.

How did ToE finish during our Tournament years, comparable or nah (or maybe I missed the part where this discussion existed only in the vacuum of last season, which is possible)?
 
Your biased opinion

Thinker said:
I think Fran can get these guys to improves
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An unbiased opinion

CyTwins said:
But it’s hard to find a good player nationally who has been more misused than Cook was last year. He played nearly one-third of his minutes next to two true centers despite his best position also being at center. As the rest of the basketball world downsized, Iowa decided to play three true bigs fairly regularly and then give Fran McCaffery a contract extension. Go figure. Despite the fact that he should be playing most of his minutes as a true center, Cook still produced. It would be interesting to see him in a more functional situation, and Cook alluded to the potential for a transfer at the end of the season (although he has since squashed a rumored move to Missouri). He’ll get workouts, and if he was to stay in the draft, he’d be an interesting two-way contract candidate as well as a likely training camp look. But his stock is not where it should be right now after the dysfunctional Iowa season.
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Thinker said:
Nope

ISU 2017-2018 13-18 overall 4-14 in conference 0-10 in away games

Iowa 2017-2018 14-19 overall 4-14 in conference 1-10 in away games

Pretty comparable finishes IMO
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This is adorable. Lets not pretend that the Big 12 and B1G conference slates are even comparable. Secondly, Iowa State has added several really solid experienced and young pieces to go with a good core of players. Iowa just added more flex seal to the bottom of the boat...
 
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Reactions: Cydkar and Cyclonesrule91
YeahBuddy said:
Sagarin, which takes SOS into account for their ranking, had Iowa slightly better last season.

RPI was in favor of ISU by 14 spots.

KenPom had Iowa better by 15 spots.
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KenPom is a predictive model, not a ranking system. Not sure I've ever even looked at Sagarin for basketball
 
MeowingCows said:
Equally bad. Yay.

How did ToE finish during our Tournament years, comparable or nah (or maybe I missed the part where this discussion existed only in the vacuum of last season, which is possible)?
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2012 Iowa made the NIT
2013 Iowa made the NIT
2014 ISU made it 3 rounds further than Iowa in the NCAA tourney
2015 Iowa made it one round further than ISU in the NCAA tourney
2016 ISU made it one round further than Iowa in the NCAA tourney
2017 Iowa made the NIT
 
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YeahBuddy said:
2012 Iowa made the NIT
2013 Iowa made the NIT
2014 ISU made it 3 rounds further than Iowa in the NCAA tourney
2015 Iowa made it one round further than ISU in the NCAA tourney
2016 ISU made it one round further than Iowa in the NCAA tourney
2017 Iowa made the NIT
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Iowa didn't make the tourney in 2014, they lost in the play in game
 
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Reactions: CycloneVet, breck53, WalkingCY and 9 others
IASTATE07 said:
This is how I feel reading some of these guys posts. Please excuse the poor quality of video.

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CyTwins said:
I'm really curious how you are going to spin that Cartwright and Pemsl both got better at Iowa when both by regular and advanced stats actually got significantly worse
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I concede on the stats, but if they both got hurt, then does this really constitute an argument?
 
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