***Official 2013 Bracketology Thread***
- Thread starter CarlHungus
- Start date
Agree with all of that. They always play a good non-conf schedule, their problem is they only play a handful of tough games over the three months after that. Playing San Francisco and San Diego doesn't prepare you for the tournament like going through the grind of a major conference. That's probably one reason why Gonzaga has underachieved for their seed in the tournament for the better part of the last decade.
This year...yes.
The OK State and K-State wins are good wins. But if those are your two best wins, that's not the resume of a number one team.
The Oklahoma win was early in the year, Oklahoma has improved a lot since then but they also lost to Stephen F Austin in the non-conf. West Virginia is not a good team, Purdue hammered them by 30 too. Baylor is average, with some really bad losses as well, that should not be one of your signature wins if you think you have a case for number one.
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The standings say no. Despite the loss, KSU is in a tie for first place. Even if KU has the tiebreaker for conference tournament seeding, they still are in position to compete for the regular season crown whether outright or shared.
I think we can all agree that Illinois was playing very well early in the season and have struggled as of late. Brandon Paul of Illinois is averaging 17.3 points per game and dropped a 35 point game on the Zags on 10 for 16 shooting from the floor, 5 for 9 from deep, and 10 for 11 at the line. That is about as efficient a game as you are going to see for a college kid scoring 35 points.
Throwing Illinois out in any attempt to reference that game as a "bad" loss for the Zags is crazy. Illinois has lost 4 games this season to teams that were not ranked at the time of the game. 2 of those losses were at the hands of Wisconsin... a team currently ranked 20th which owns a pretty solid resume with wins over #2 Indiana and #3 Michigan.
It's not a bad loss in any context besides debating if they should be number one or not. Losing at home by double digits, is not a good thing.
And it wasn't so much that they lost, but how easily their d got carved up by Illinois. Pierre Jackson and Baylor did the same thing to them but Gonzaga was able to outscore them. So I guess it's a combination of I don't think they've enough to warrant being number one nor do I think they are one of the top teams in the country.
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It won't move the needle for a few games when his presence can be quantified. Right now Texas is considered a crappy team with a crappy RPI. Beating those teams doesn't move the needle. Losing to those teams does.
Good teams have off nights. Remember... there is a reason that Gonzaga never plays that tough of a schedule during the regular season yet always seems to do some damage in the Tourney. Good programs don't want to play Gonzaga.
This post makes absolutely no sense. Gonzaga has no problem gettting good teams to play them, they have some of the toughest non-conf schedules year in and year out, they get quite a few high quality teams to come to Spokane or Seattle as well. They also have underachieved for their seed in the tournament a lot more than they have outplayed it for the last decade. They haven't done serious damage in the tournament for almost a decade now.
Number of ranked teams Gonzaga played in the non-conference by year....
2011-2012 - None
2010-2011 - 4
2009-2010 - 2
2008-2009 - 4
2007-2008 - 3
2006-2007 - 6
Now how many of those games against ranked teams were in Tournaments (Maui, Pre-Season NIT, Coaches vs. Cancer Classic, etc....) where the game was not a "scheduled" game? How many were games courtesy of the bracket buster deal the mid-major conferences have going? Now after all of those are taken out of the equation how many ranked teams actually scheduled a head to head meeting with Gonzaga? Not many.
As for their NCAA Tournament results... Since the 2003 NCAA Tournament the Zags have been eliminated in their opening game 2 times. In 2008 they lost to #10 seed Davidson (Davidson advanced to the Elite Eight) and in 2007 they lost to #7 seed Indiana.
They have lost their 2nd round game 6 times. They lost in 2003 to #1 seed Arizona by 1 in OT, in 2004 they were upset by #10 seed Nevada, in 2005 they were upset by #6 seed Texas Tech by 2 points, in 2010 they lost #1 seed Syracuse, in 2011 they lost to #3 seed BYU, and in 2012 they lost to #2 seed Ohio State.
They have lost in the Sweet 16 twice. In 2006 they lost to #2 seed UCLA by 2 points, and in 2009 they lost to #1 seed North Carolina.
Since 2003 the Zags have been knocked out of the NCAA Tournament by three #1 seeds, two #2 seeds, a #3 seed, a #6 seed, a #7 seed, and two #10 seeds. In those 10 Tourney appearances the Zags were only beaten by a team with a worse seed 3 times.
Who is in the conversation for #1 that doesn't have a "bad loss" by that definition?
There are no teams this year that don't have gaping holes in their resumes.
Indiana, Michigan, Florida - none of them have home losses, only Florida has a double digit loss at all out of those 3. Duke and Syracuse also have no home losses.
I agree with this. I haven't looked at the rankings, but how many different teams have been ranked in the top four? I know the rankings aren't a for sure indication on the top 4 seeds, but usually close. Going to be a seeding nightmare. Going to be some very tough 1 vs 8/9 games.
I think the first three listed are about as sure as anything right now. Duke might not have a home loss, but a 30 pt loss at Miami isn't good. What do you think of Miami? Prob a 2 seed right now, but could make a strong case for a 1 if they win at Duke and play well in ACC tourney.
So yes, thanks for proving my points. The number of ranked teams Gonzaga has played in the non-conference, while very impressive, doesn't even tell the whole story. Look at who've they played in games considered home or semi home (Seattle) in the last few years.
2013: West Virginia, K-State, Baylor
2012: Notre Dame, Michigan St, Arizona, Butler,
2011: San Diego St, Illinois, Xavier, Oklahoma St
They have no problem getting big name teams to come out to Washington. Also, getting scheduled into big time tournaments is not a random occurrence. Gonzaga's past success has put them on the same level as the nation's elite program when it comes to getting invited to big time pre-season tournaments, so they have absolutely no problem getting high quality non-conf games.
Also it's funny you mention BracketBusters too, since Gonzaga has not participated in that for many years. The reason, they don't need help getting quality match ups anymore.
As for the tournament, since 2002 they have only outperformed their seed twice in 10 years and have under-performed their seed four times. And you listed the teams Gonzaga has lost to in the tournament, how about who they have beat? Since 2002 they have not beat a single team seeded higher than 6th in the tournament, 0-6 against teams seeded 6th or higher. They are a great program, they've been able to sustain terrific mid-major success for over a decade but they have not produced like an elite program despite some very favorable seeds in the tournament.