Big 12 considering adding ACC teams..to 16

I would vastly prefer staying at 10 than going to 16, especially if the per school payout stays high.

Well, apparently some guys "in the know".. Colton on the Louisville board and Mounty71 on the WVU board are on the same page.

According to them both (independently by the way), the B12 is talking with Notre Dame and ESPN has moved up Tier 1 tv negotiations. It appears the B12 is trying to get a feel from ESPN as to what a 14/16 team conference WITH Notre Dame would be worth. According to Colton and Mounty71 the number is between 35 and 40 million per school.

Heck, i'd favor going to 16 for that kind of cash. If Notre Dame isn't interested, it's going to be Louisville and Rutgers and stop at 12. The ONLY way the B12 goes beyond 12 is if Notre Dame is involved. There is no way we get any ACC school without them anyway.
 
Anyone wanna tell me why all the insider info these days comes from west virginia??? Anybody else think that is odd? Are they the CIA of the NCAA?
 
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I much prefer 12... and thinking about it i think i'd almost rather stay at 10 than go to 16.

I'm for whatever gets ISU the most cash and the most solid position (not getting left out of what is likely coming...a new upper level division). If that's 16, bring it on.
 
Well, apparently some guys "in the know".. Colton on the Louisville board and Mounty71 on the WVU board are on the same page.

According to them both (independently by the way), the B12 is talking with Notre Dame and ESPN has moved up Tier 1 tv negotiations. It appears the B12 is trying to get a feel from ESPN as to what a 14/16 team conference WITH Notre Dame would be worth. According to Colton and Mounty71 the number is between 35 and 40 million per school.

Heck, i'd favor going to 16 for that kind of cash. If Notre Dame isn't interested, it's going to be Louisville and Rutgers and stop at 12. The ONLY way the B12 goes beyond 12 is if Notre Dame is involved. There is no way we get any ACC school without them anyway.

That makes sense to me. Make a run at ND and if they pass, expand to 12 and stay there. I think that the biggest plus for ND isn't Texas recruiting. It's having their own network (NBC/Comcast) and getting the 1st and 2nd tier B12 money on top of it. They are going to start losing their Big 10 games with that conference now playing Pac 12 teams, so NBC isn't going to break the bank for their TV package.
 
Anything more than 10 and ISU loses all of its ties to the old Big 8/12. I have zero interest in being the most Western team in an East division in which ISU has no history or tradition. **** that.
 
IMO, taking schools out of the ACC will never happen. The ESPN contract is way to big, way too much money.

The only conference left to raid from is the Big East. Adding Cincy and Louisville makes sense geographically, and moves us back to 12.

Clearly, if ND wants in, we would take them in a heartbeat. But I don't know that ND wants in, or really cares. As long as the Big East continues to exist for non-football (which it will - football is an extremely new sport for them), do they really care? I'm not convinced ND needs to move as much as people think they do.
 
Anyone wanna tell me why all the insider info these days comes from west virginia??? Anybody else think that is odd? Are they the CIA of the NCAA?

Yellow Snow and I both post on the WVU board some, and mounty71 was 100% spot on about their move to the Big 12, including the 1 one delay that was supposedly going to make the Big 12 look terrible but has been completely forgot.

That doesn't mean he knows anything this time around, but so far this guy has been accurate.
 
IMO, taking schools out of the ACC will never happen. The ESPN contract is way to big, way too much money.

The only conference left to raid from is the Big East. Adding Cincy and Louisville makes sense geographically, and moves us back to 12.

Clearly, if ND wants in, we would take them in a heartbeat. But I don't know that ND wants in, or really cares. As long as the Big East continues to exist for non-football (which it will - football is an extremely new sport for them), do they really care? I'm not convinced ND needs to move as much as people think they do.


Is it that big though? The ACC contract is only $12.9 million annually per team, and that assumes that they will get an increase to keep everybody at the same amount when Pitt and Syracuse join them in a couple of years. I could be wrong, but I think that payment includes all three tiers as well, so only if ESPN doesn't want the content could an individual school try to sell it somewhere else. They are locked into that contract until 2023.

Even before reneogiation of the first tier football and basketball contract in 2015-2016, the Big 12 is getting paid $15 million per team, which does not include the third tier. If the Pac-12 deal is any indicator, there is a good shot the Big 12 could rake in more than $30 million plus third tier revenue per team with Notre Dame and a football championship by 2015. Even with the current 10, there is a great shot at approaching $20-25 million per team plus third tier when the tier 1 is renegotiated.
 
Like others, I would love to see Clemson and FSU join the B12. If one ACC team leaves the ACC, it could spark other teams leaving the ACC. In that case, all of the SEC, B1G, and B12 could swiftly carve up the ACC in literally a matter of days. Even after the SEC and B1G finished feeding at the ACC trough, there would very probably be Clemson and FSU to the B12 at the very least. Possibly Miami, GT, Maryland, Pitt or BC could be available to the B12. Therefore, I think the B12 ought to be ready to go beyond 12, if, say, Clemson and/or FSU elected to join the B12.

If the B12 moves to a 16-team conference, I do not think 16 teams necessarily must create a lack of league familiarity and lack of cohesion. In fact, I argue that moving to 16 is actually more beneficial for a conference than 12 teams (8 conference games), and certainly better than 14 teams (unbalanced 9 conference games; or, worse yet, 10 conference games).

As many have suggested in the past with respect to a 16-team conference, what you do is break the 16 teams into 4 pods of 4 teams each. Here’s the trick: You do not play the same pod two years in a row (for a home-and-home). Instead, each pod cycles through one of the other 3 pods each year. That is, a different pod each year. That way every team in the league plays every other team in the league every three years. When the cycle begins again, then switch the home-and-home.

It would work like this: ISU, for example, might be in "Pod 1" with Kansas, Kansas State, and Louisville. Those teams would play one another every single year. The pod structure creates, sustains, and emphasizes the closest and most intense league rivalries.

Then "Pod 1" might play "Pod 2" consisting of, say, Clemson (@ Ames), WVU (@ Morgantown), Georgia Tech (@ Ames), and FSU (@ Tallahassee). Three years later ISU would play "Pod 2" again, only this time switch the venues. In between, obviously, "Pod 1" plays "Pod 3" and "Pod 4".

While every school would cycle through the entire league every 3 years, which I think would create excellent league cohesion, an important resulting benefit is that your conference schedule is minimal -- 7 conference games. Add in a "primary" protected rival with a school outside of your pod (and a "secondary" protected rival outside the pod of your "primary" protected rival), and each school still plays only 8 conference games, which is the same number as the less projective 12-team league, and more OOC games than in a 10-team league. No need to cancel Iowa at all.

Continuing with ISU as the example, let's say ISU's “primary” protected rival was Texas Tech "Pod 3"), and its "secondary" protected rival was TCU ("Pod 4"). ISU would play Kansas, Kansas State, Louisville, and Texas Tech every year, ISU would play TCU twice every 3 years, and ISU would play the entire rest of the league once every 3 years. Yet ISU would only have an 8-game conference schedule each year, leaving room for 4 OOC games. Here's the schematic:

Year 1: ISU (“Pod 1”) plays “Pod 2” (E.g.: ISU @ Clemson) (Texas Tech & no TCU)
Year 2: ISU plays “Pod 3” (@ Texas Tech & TCU)
Year 3: ISU plays “Pod 4” (Texas Tech & @ TCU)
Year 4: Cycle repeats (except home-and-home switches)

To repeat: With the protected rival arrangement, you simultaneously create a fourth annual rivalry with a team from a different pod, a fifth rivalry that you play two out of three years with a team from yet another pod, and you are left with the ability to schedule 4 OOC games. Four OOC games is ideal, you're a member of this powerful 16-team conference, and you have 5 significant conference rivalries.

Note also that in a 12-team league, you only get 5 annual rivals. Therefore, the 16-team pod conference has all the benefits of the 12-team league, yet the 16-team league gives you a much larger footprint that will translate into a much bigger TV contract. What’s not to like?

The main point here is that a 16-team conference does not necessarily have to result in an unwieldy conglomeration, cycling through other conference members every 6 years, or longer, resulting in unfamiliarity, especially for the college students. By playing a different pod each year, a college freshman enters school and before he graduates his school has played every team in the conference at least once, yet he enjoys three annual football rivalries with three of his neighboring colleges, a fourth annual rivalry with another conference member, a fifth semi-rivalry two out of three years with yet another conference school, all of which is a fun part of the college experience.

Essentially what you wind up with in a 16-team conference is 5 “anchor” conference teams that you get to love … and hate. You also get all the other teams in the conference with sufficient regularity – every 3 years – that familiarity is not destroyed. Plus you get the “spice of life”: 4 OOC games with teams you bring in just for fun.

Finally, the way the playoff could is work is the two pods that play against each other any particular year would form a "division." The team that wins that division plays in the championship game. The fun part of this structure is that the divisions would change every year, giving some of the consistently less powerful teams a better shot at the conference championship when they do field a great team. Essentially what you wind up with in a 16-team conference is 5 “anchor” conference schools that you get to love … and hate.

To me, at least, a 16 team conference, correctly set up, is superior to a 12-team conference, requiring 8 conference games, but with no protected rivalry game, and far superior to a 14-team conference, requiring an unbalanced 9 or 10 conference games (also with no protected rivalry). At any rate, the above is what I hope is considered if the Big 12 goes to 16 teams, which I hope happens.
 
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it deserves its own thread..that mega thread stuff is nutty

But it's the same exact topic, the only difference being that this one is slightly more specific in talking about ACC teams (though many of the individual posts stray from that...including the OP who talks about Notre Dame).
 
But it's the same exact topic, the only difference being that this one is slightly more specific in talking about ACC teams (though many of the individual posts stray from that...including the OP who talks about Notre Dame).

Agreed, expansion topics should be kept in the mega thread. Only reason to start a new one would be if new teams actually join. Other than that, is' all rehashing of the same stuff.

I know stuff in there can get screwy, but it was nice knowing that everything I wanted to know was in one location.
 
Like others, I would love to see Clemson and FSU join the B12. If one ACC team leaves the ACC, it could spark other teams leaving the ACC. In that case, all of the SEC, B1G, and B12 could swiftly carve up the ACC in literally a matter of days. Even after the SEC and B1G finished feeding at the ACC trough, there would very probably be Clemson and FSU to the B12 at the very least. Possibly Miami, GT, Maryland, Pitt or BC could be available to the B12. Therefore, I think the B12 ought to be ready to go beyond 12, if, say, Clemson and/or FSU elected to join the B12.

If the B12 moves to a 16-team conference, I do not think 16 teams necessarily must create a lack of league familiarity and lack of cohesion. In fact, I argue that moving to 16 is actually more beneficial for a conference than 12 teams (8 conference games), and certainly better than 14 teams (unbalanced 9 conference games; or, worse yet, 10 conference games).

As many have suggested in the past with respect to a 16-team conference, what you do is break the 16 teams into 4 pods of 4 teams each. Here’s the trick: You do not play the same pod two years in a row (for a home-and-home). Instead, each pod cycles through one of the other 3 pods each year. That is, a different pod each year. That way every team in the league plays every other team in the league every three years. When the cycle begins again, then switch the home-and-home.

It would work like this: ISU, for example, might be in "Pod 1" with Kansas, Kansas State, and Louisville. Those teams would play one another every single year. The pod structure creates, sustains, and emphasizes the closest and most intense league rivalries.

Then "Pod 1" might play "Pod 2" consisting of, say, Clemson (@ Ames), WVU (@ Morgantown), Georgia Tech (@ Ames), and FSU (@ Tallahassee). Three years later ISU would play "Pod 2" again, only this time switch the venues. In between, obviously, "Pod 1" plays "Pod 3" and "Pod 4".

While every school would cycle through the entire league every 3 years, which I think would create excellent league cohesion, an important resulting benefit is that your conference schedule is minimal -- 7 conference games. Add in a "primary" protected rival with a school outside of your pod (and a "secondary" protected rival outside the pod of your "primary" protected rival), and each school still plays only 8 conference games, which is the same number as the less projective 12-team league, and more OOC games than in a 10-team league. No need to cancel Iowa at all.

Continuing with ISU as the example, let's say ISU's “primary†protected rival was Texas Tech "Pod 3"), and its "secondary" protected rival was TCU ("Pod 4"). ISU would play Kansas, Kansas State, Louisville, and Texas Tech every year, ISU would play TCU twice every 3 years, and ISU would play the entire rest of the league once every 3 years. Yet ISU would only have an 8-game conference schedule each year, leaving room for 4 OOC games. Here's the schematic:

Year 1: ISU (“Pod 1â€) plays “Pod 2†(E.g.: ISU @ Clemson) (Texas Tech & no TCU)
Year 2: ISU plays “Pod 3†(@ Texas Tech & TCU)
Year 3: ISU plays “Pod 4†(Texas Tech & @ TCU)
Year 4: Cycle repeats (except home-and-home switches)

To repeat: With the protected rival arrangement, you simultaneously create a fourth annual rivalry with a team from a different pod, a fifth rivalry that you play two out of three years with a team from yet another pod, and you are left with the ability to schedule 4 OOC games. Four OOC games is ideal, you're a member of this powerful 16-team conference, and you have 5 significant conference rivalries.

Note also that in a 12-team league, you only get 5 annual rivals. Therefore, the 16-team pod conference has all the benefits of the 12-team league, yet the 16-team league gives you a much larger footprint that will translate into a much bigger TV contract. What’s not to like?

The main point here is that a 16-team conference does not necessarily have to result in an unwieldy conglomeration, cycling through other conference members every 6 years, or longer, resulting in unfamiliarity, especially for the college students. By playing a different pod each year, a college freshman enters school and before he graduates his school has played every team in the conference at least once, yet he enjoys three annual football rivalries with three of his neighboring colleges, a fourth annual rivalry with another conference member, a fifth semi-rivalry two out of three years with yet another conference school, all of which is a fun part of the college experience.

Essentially what you wind up with in a 16-team conference is 5 “anchor†conference teams that you get to love … and hate. You also get all the other teams in the conference with sufficient regularity – every 3 years – that familiarity is not destroyed. Plus you get the “spice of lifeâ€: 4 OOC games with teams you bring in just for fun.

Finally, the way the playoff could is work is the two pods that play against each other any particular year would form a "division." The team that wins that division plays in the championship game. The fun part of this structure is that the divisions would change every year, giving some of the consistently less powerful teams a better shot at the conference championship when they do field a great team. Essentially what you wind up with in a 16-team conference is 5 “anchor†conference schools that you get to love … and hate.

To me, at least, a 16 team conference, correctly set up, is superior to a 12-team conference, requiring 8 conference games, but with no protected rivalry game, and far superior to a 14-team conference, requiring an unbalanced 9 or 10 conference games (also with no protected rivalry). At any rate, the above is what I hope is considered if the Big 12 goes to 16 teams, which I hope happens.

A couple of problems with a pod system. #1 -- how do you decide who plays in the conference championship game? #2 -- if our protected rivalry outside the pod is not located in Texas or Florida, then we could go an entire year without a game in either of those states, which would be bad for recruiting. #3 -- I could see the Oklahoma/Kansas schools fitting in one pod and the Texas schools sitting in another pod with us in a pod with WV and 3 other Northern schools we have little history with (KU or KSU would likely be our protected rivalry). Georgraphically, this would make a lot of sense, but it would not make any ISU fans happy. It would be my great preference to split by divisions on an East and West basis (with 2 Texas teams going East) in any expansion scenario.
 
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