*****The Super, Mega, Huge Big 12 Expansion Thread*****

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So long as we're talking about dream scenarios, here's mine:

EAST: Rutgers, Penn State, Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, Indiana, Purdue, Notre Dame

WEST: Kansas, Nebraska, Iowa State, Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Illinois, Northwestern

If ISU, KU, RU and ND were added to the B10, you likely would not see a divisional format like that. You would instead see 4-team pods that would facilitate playing every other conference member for FB within a 2-year period. This was proposed by the P12 if they expanded to 16 and would likely be implemented in the B10, too.

Pod #1 - Notre Dame, Michigan St, Indiana, Purdue
Pod #2 - Ohio St, Michigan, Penn St, Rutgers
Pod #3 - Minnesota, Wisconsin, Illinois, Northwestern
Pod #4 - Nebraska, Kansas, ISU, Iowa

A school would play the other 3 schools in its pod each year and then play 2 each in the other 3 pods for a 9-game schedule. A school would play the other 2 schools in the other pods the following year. The top two teams, regardless of pod, would play each other in the championship game.
 
Maybe it's incredibly naive, but I don't think that TV money is the only thing influencing realignment. If it were, then why wouldn't the Pac-12 have pounced on OU/Texas in September? Why wouldn't the Big Ten have added Missery instead of Nebraska? Why wouldn't conferences be purging themselves of redundant members like Vanderbilt, Purdue, Northwestern, Washington State, Mississippi State, Baylor, etc. and replaced them with teams in new markets that can generate greater revenue? If it's all about TV money, then what's the point of even having conferences; wouldn't the top schools be better off going independent and not splitting their TV revenue evenly with their less-popular conference members? I really do think a totality of factors is considered, even though TV revenue is an increasingly large component.

We'll never be attractive to any conference if it's only going to be about TV numbers, but I think leveraging a preponderance of factors could paint us as worthy. AAU membership, top-50 public school, being a large state university, facilities that are ever-improving, passionate alumni, etc. If any conference is going to be the least bit concerned about these types of things, it's the Big Ten. The geographic fit is obvious. Our administration, both current and incoming, have Big Ten ties. We'd have unique academic/research strengths compared to existing Big Ten members. We'd have political leverage because Iowa's already in. We don't add TV sets like Notre Dame, but I'm guessing we have more alumni and potential BTN subscribers in KC and Texas than many Big Ten schools do.

If feelers haven't been put out by ISU's leadership, I really don't know why because I don't understand what the downside would be.

Wouldn't that make ISU a money-grubbing ***** who will lift her skirt for any invite and wreck the stability of the Big 12? :smile: (kidding!)

Maybe I'm cynical, but yeah, I think it's all about the money, and what you can get away with to make more money. You can't kick a member out of a conference without a heap of political and legal trouble, but that's just the cost of doing business.

And since most of these schools are public institutions, maybe we should be OK with having the TV networks and ticket holders foot most of the bill for athletics, rather than the taxpayers or students. If that means they have to be a little more mercenary, so be it.

Lots of people talk about how these universities have moved away from their core academic mission. Has anyone ever looked at what a successful football program does to market the university? Missouri has enjoyed record enrollment, higher academc standards, and increasing endowments over the past five years...right at the same time the football team became successful. That directly supports the core mission. Maybe it's a coincidence, but the admins at MU don't think it is.

Let's face it: AAU membership, high college "rankings", geographic or cultural alignment, are nothing more than window dressing in this game. Nice to have, but irrelevant to the overall decision. Everyone and their mother knew that NU's AAU status was tenuous. Did that stop the Big 10 from inviting them? Hell no. Would MU have gotten an SEC invite if they weren't AAU? Yep.

Everything you said about ISU's fit in regards to the Big 10 is true...and won't be considered because of one simple fact: the Big 10 could add Iowa State and not make one dime more on TV revenue than they do already. Because every market ISU brings is already covered by having Iowa.

It has NOTHING to do with ISU's worthiness as an institution; in fact, if the tables were turned, and Iowa was looking to join the Big 12, they'd probably be passed over for the same reasons. Despite their football history, and their fan support, and all the other things that they whine about, the Hawks wouldn't bring much to the Big 12 table that isn't already there. (except that coveted Quad Cities market) :smile:
 
Wouldn't that make ISU a money-grubbing ***** who will lift her skirt for any invite and wreck the stability of the Big 12? :smile: (kidding!)

Maybe I'm cynical, but yeah, I think it's all about the money, and what you can get away with to make more money. You can't kick a member out of a conference without a heap of political and legal trouble, but that's just the cost of doing business.

And since most of these schools are public institutions, maybe we should be OK with having the TV networks and ticket holders foot most of the bill for athletics, rather than the taxpayers or students. If that means they have to be a little more mercenary, so be it.

Lots of people talk about how these universities have moved away from their core academic mission. Has anyone ever looked at what a successful football program does to market the university? Missouri has enjoyed record enrollment, higher academc standards, and increasing endowments over the past five years...right at the same time the football team became successful. That directly supports the core mission. Maybe it's a coincidence, but the admins at MU don't think it is.

Let's face it: AAU membership, high college "rankings", geographic or cultural alignment, are nothing more than window dressing in this game. Nice to have, but irrelevant to the overall decision. Everyone and their mother knew that NU's AAU status was tenuous. Did that stop the Big 10 from inviting them? Hell no. Would MU have gotten an SEC invite if they weren't AAU? Yep.

Everything you said about ISU's fit in regards to the Big 10 is true...and won't be considered because of one simple fact: the Big 10 could add Iowa State and not make one dime more on TV revenue than they do already. Because every market ISU brings is already covered by having Iowa.

It has NOTHING to do with ISU's worthiness as an institution; in fact, if the tables were turned, and Iowa was looking to join the Big 12, they'd probably be passed over for the same reasons. Despite their football history, and their fan support, and all the other things that they whine about, the Hawks wouldn't bring much to the Big 12 table that isn't already there. (except that coveted Quad Cities market) :smile:

You honestly think the Big 12 wouldn't invite Iowa if they wanted to join? Are you trying to act stupid or are you just bad with sarcasm?
 
You honestly think the Big 12 wouldn't invite Iowa if they wanted to join? Are you trying to act stupid or are you just bad with sarcasm?

Obviously no Big 10 team is looking to join the Big 12. But IF the Big 12 were the more lucrative league, and they were looking to expand, I don't think the Hawks would be the first choice. What does Iowa bring in terms of TV markets that ISU doesn't?

My point is, most of the factors that are driving realignment are out of a school's control.
 
Wouldn't that make ISU a money-grubbing ***** who will lift her skirt for any invite and wreck the stability of the Big 12? :smile: (kidding!)

Maybe I'm cynical, but yeah, I think it's all about the money, and what you can get away with to make more money. You can't kick a member out of a conference without a heap of political and legal trouble, but that's just the cost of doing business.

And since most of these schools are public institutions, maybe we should be OK with having the TV networks and ticket holders foot most of the bill for athletics, rather than the taxpayers or students. If that means they have to be a little more mercenary, so be it.

Lots of people talk about how these universities have moved away from their core academic mission. Has anyone ever looked at what a successful football program does to market the university? Missouri has enjoyed record enrollment, higher academc standards, and increasing endowments over the past five years...right at the same time the football team became successful. That directly supports the core mission. Maybe it's a coincidence, but the admins at MU don't think it is.

Let's face it: AAU membership, high college "rankings", geographic or cultural alignment, are nothing more than window dressing in this game. Nice to have, but irrelevant to the overall decision. Everyone and their mother knew that NU's AAU status was tenuous. Did that stop the Big 10 from inviting them? Hell no. Would MU have gotten an SEC invite if they weren't AAU? Yep.

Everything you said about ISU's fit in regards to the Big 10 is true...and won't be considered because of one simple fact: the Big 10 could add Iowa State and not make one dime more on TV revenue than they do already. Because every market ISU brings is already covered by having Iowa.

It has NOTHING to do with ISU's worthiness as an institution; in fact, if the tables were turned, and Iowa was looking to join the Big 12, they'd probably be passed over for the same reasons. Despite their football history, and their fan support, and all the other things that they whine about, the Hawks wouldn't bring much to the Big 12 table that isn't already there. (except that coveted Quad Cities market) :smile:

Leave already. I don't know what I hate more about you: that you're a delusional fool who thinks Missery to the SEC is a good thing, that you come on here and clearly either don't read or don't understand the arguments that others have had 4-5 pages ago, or that you have the dumbest name on this board.

Either way, just leave. You must get some strange thrill out of knowing that nobody likes you.
 
Obviously no Big 10 team is looking to join the Big 12. But IF the Big 12 were the more lucrative league, and they were looking to expand, I don't think the Hawks would be the first choice. What does Iowa bring in terms of TV markets that ISU doesn't?

My point is, most of the factors that are driving realignment are out of a school's control.

What the **** are you still doing here? :rolleyes:
 
Obviously no Big 10 team is looking to join the Big 12. But IF the Big 12 were the more lucrative league, and they were looking to expand, I don't think the Hawks would be the first choice. What does Iowa bring in terms of TV markets that ISU doesn't?

My point is, most of the factors that are driving realignment are out of a school's control.

You're right. I, for one, applaud the Big 12 for their addition of TCU. I was worried we wouldn't be able to capture the DFW market, with its large contingent of Horned Frog fans, and its rather large absence of any Longhorn, Red Raider, and Bear fans.

A hypothetical addition of Iowa to the Big 12 simply doesn't make any sense.
 
Leave already. I don't know what I hate more about you: that you're a delusional fool who thinks Missery to the SEC is a good thing, that you come on here and clearly either don't read or don't understand the arguments that others have had 4-5 pages ago, or that you have the dumbest name on this board.

Either way, just leave. You must get some strange thrill out of knowing that nobody likes you.

I think I understand your argument clearly: You think that ISU might be able to leverage a Big 10 invite when it expands again based on its geography and academic reputation.

My argument is that the Big 10 might not expand again for a decade or more, and if it does, it's going to make a blockbuster move (like the Notre Dame-Texas package deal referenced in the OU emails) that's driven entirely by national profile or revenue potential.

As for the hate, maybe you just haven't gotten to know me yet. :smile:
 
I think I understand your argument clearly: You think that ISU might be able to leverage a Big 10 invite when it expands again based on its geography and academic reputation.

NO, dingbat, that's not it at all (are you starting to see why nobody likes you now???). My argument is that the only way ISU gets an invite to any conference is on a preponderance of factors, since we're not lucky enough to be the only school in a state sandwiched between two major cities.

Of course, if they still taught readin' at Missery or whatever methlab trailer you procured an education in, you'd have already know that.
 
You're right. I, for one, applaud the Big 12 for their addition of TCU. I was worried we wouldn't be able to capture the DFW market, with its large contingent of Horned Frog fans, and its rather large absence of any Longhorn, Red Raider, and Bear fans.

Not quite the same thing, since DFW has more than twice as many people as the entire state of Iowa.

Still, you can expand by finding good football teams, or by adding new markets. Iowa's a good football team, but not a great market by itself.
 
Not quite the same thing, since DFW has more than twice as many people as the entire state of Iowa.

Still, you can expand by finding good football teams, or by adding new markets. Iowa's a good football team, but not a great market by itself.

Wow. Amazing. All that crap that you type. And I maybe have read one... Maybe two lines of it.... And you are still here... Wasting our time.....

At least you can say you were a part of the monster cyclone fanatic thread that ate Missouri.
 
Exit fees for Mizzou and aTm. IMO, we should hold them to the maximum exit fees. $25 million to $30 million each. NO negotiation. TCU and WVU appear to have to pay maximum exit fees to join. Mizzou and aTm should have to pay their exit fees. They knew what they were and signed an agreement saying that they would pay them if they chose to leave. Open and shut case IMO.

As far as the join date for WVU, it appears that Pitt and Syracuse are being allowed to leave early for the ACC. It should be no different for WVU. And things have certainly changed in the Big East. Right now, the basketball school majority can make the decisions for the football schools in that conference. WVU is right to want to leave that type of environment. I see WVU being allowed to leave and join the Big 12 for the 2012-13 season.
 
Exit fees for Mizzou and aTm. IMO, we should hold them to the maximum exit fees. $25 million to $30 million each. NO negotiation. TCU and WVU appear to have to pay maximum exit fees to join. Mizzou and aTm should have to pay their exit fees. They knew what they were and signed an agreement saying that they would pay them if they chose to leave. Open and shut case IMO.

As far as the join date for WVU, it appears that Pitt and Syracuse are being allowed to leave early for the ACC. It should be no different for WVU. And things have certainly changed in the Big East. Right now, the basketball school majority can make the decisions for the football schools in that conference. WVU is right to want to leave that type of environment. I see WVU being allowed to leave and join the Big 12 for the 2012-13 season.

Wait a second...TAMU and MU should be held to the letter of their agreement regarding exit fees. But WVU should be allowed to leave the Big East early (against their written agreement) because things have "changed?"

WVU and TCU's exit fees are explicit: $2.5M now and $2.5 M later. The Big 12's exit fees aren't. It's X percent depending on notice of 2 years revenue based on the original 5 year agreement, but it also includes a percentage of future revenue based on a time when the exiting school is no longer in the conference...and would receive $0 revenue. What a mess.

NU's Harvey Pearlman considered going to court and NOT PAYING ANYTHING towards the Big 12 exit fees. I'm sure that's an option for TAMU and MU.

Best outcome for all is a settlement. So don't go spending all that exit fee money yet, Stormin! :smile:
 
Wait a second...TAMU and MU should be held to the letter of their agreement regarding exit fees. But WVU should be allowed to leave the Big East early (against their written agreement) because things have "changed?"

WVU and TCU's exit fees are explicit: $2.5M now and $2.5 M later. The Big 12's exit fees aren't. It's X percent depending on notice of 2 years revenue based on the original 5 year agreement, but it also includes a percentage of future revenue based on a time when the exiting school is no longer in the conference...and would receive $0 revenue. What a mess.

NU's Harvey Pearlman considered going to court and NOT PAYING ANYTHING towards the Big 12 exit fees. I'm sure that's an option for TAMU and MU.

Best outcome for all is a settlement. So don't go spending all that exit fee money yet, Stormin! :smile:

Yeah, you go ahead and take this thing to court there, champ.

Published August 31, 2011 at 5:28 p.m.
Updated
September 1, 2011 at 1:48 p.m.

As another school continues the formal exit process from the Big 12 Conference, Missouri Chancellor Brady Deaton and Athletic Director Mike Alden expressed confidence in the league’s future yesterday.

more:

“The chancellors and presidents of the Big 12 are committed to keeping our conference competitively and academically strong,†Deaton said in a news release. “We have a process in place that enables us to move aggressively regarding the possible expansion of the conference and to assure our members and student-athletes that we will take advantage of the most productive opportunities in the best interests of all.â€
Alden later chimed in with a letter to MU fans posted on the athletic department’s website. As the Big 12 prepares to lose its third member in 14 months, Alden noted the league’s “aggressive approach†toward expansion.
“Dan and his leadership team at the Conference Office are working to expand the schools in our league and they have taken an aggressive approach in this manner,†Alden said.

Deaton, Alden tout Big 12’s commitment, expansion plans | The Columbia Daily Tribune - Columbia, Missouri

Posted by John Taylor on October 4, 2011, 8:31 PM EST

In a related move announced tonight, Deaton has decided to step down as the chairman of the Big 12′s board of directors. Such a move indicates that Mizzou is indeed intent on seriously pursuing all of their conference options, although their options are believed to be just one at this point: the SEC, which currently stands at 13 members for the 2012 season. While the conference has publicly stated they would be fine with that uneven number for a year or more, it’s well known the conference would prefer to add a 14th member provided it’s the right fit.

Mizzou gives chancellor power to explore conference affiliation | CollegeFootballTalk

That is quite a transition by an insider of the Big12 in just a little over a month. No conflict of interest issues on Deaton's part either, I am sure.

Face it, your university and its representatives come off looking as lying, deceitful whores in this whole process. Funny thing that. Nobody loves a ***** for long. I personally will relish the abuse headed Mizzou's way, both on and off the field. They have earned it.
 
Wait a second...TAMU and MU should be held to the letter of their agreement regarding exit fees. But WVU should be allowed to leave the Big East early (against their written agreement) because things have "changed?"

WVU and TCU's exit fees are explicit: $2.5M now and $2.5 M later. The Big 12's exit fees aren't. It's X percent depending on notice of 2 years revenue based on the original 5 year agreement, but it also includes a percentage of future revenue based on a time when the exiting school is no longer in the conference...and would receive $0 revenue. What a mess.

NU's Harvey Pearlman considered going to court and NOT PAYING ANYTHING towards the Big 12 exit fees. I'm sure that's an option for TAMU and MU.

Best outcome for all is a settlement. So don't go spending all that exit fee money yet, Stormin! :smile:

You're dead wrong on the big 12 exit fees.
 
You're dead wrong on the big 12 exit fees.

If it turns out that the amount paid by each team is in the $26M-$28M range, then you'll be proven correct. Of course, if the issue were that clear cut, then I'd wonder why it hasn't been agreed to already?

If I'm TAMU or MU, and the Big 12 won't budge, I think I'd take my chances in court. The whole purpose of a settlement is to avoid that outcome; the Big 12 gets a chunk of money without having to defend or disclose its internal practices.

Don't confuse what you WANT to have happen with what probably WILL end up happening.
 
Face it, your university and its representatives come off looking as lying, deceitful whores in this whole process. Funny thing that. Nobody loves a ***** for long. I personally will relish the abuse headed Mizzou's way, both on and off the field. They have earned it.

I don't care one bit about how they come off "looking" to others. They walked a thin line on a high profile, emotional issue and ended up securing the best outcome for MU, its fans, and the state of Missouri. Kudos to them.

The SEC looked like adults for slowly, methodically getting the candidates they wanted into the conference...as FULL members (sorry NU). The Big 12...acted like the Big 12. Nobody really knew who was in charge. In any event, not many will remember this crazy ride in a couple of years.

Except for those in Lawrence, Manhattan, Ames, and elsewhere. And that's OK. Missouri followed the time-tested Big 12 model of looking out for themselves first. Every other member of the conference would have done the same if presented with similar options.
 
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