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WSU top 10?

ISUChippewa said:
No...actually no one could make this argument with a straight face.

Look, I'm not going to suggest that the MVC is even close to the Big 12, and any Panther fan who thinks it is needs to have their head checked (although I'm still waiting to see actual evidence from the OP that someone actually wrote that, just like I'm waiting to see that someone actually has UNI on a 3 line at this point), but the committee, contrary to some popular belief, doesn't take conference affiliation into account when they make their selections.

If you did leave out UNI solely based on their being in the MVC, you would have to completely ignore their Top 20 RPI, BPI, KenPom, as well as a Top 25 Sagarin rating. Even if we lose today I don't think those numbers will drop too much to bring any validity to that argument.
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"We"? Are you an ISU fan or a UNI fan? You have ISU in your screen name.

Anyway, back to the argument here. I said that UNI should be in the dance with a loss today, but I am just not impressed with their resume all that much. They might be really good, we just don't know because they haven't really beaten anyone yet. ISU plays better teams every single week than UNI does all year.

It would be like taking the 4A Iowa high school football champion and putting them in the top high school football conference down in Texas. They might be undefeated in Iowa, but in the best conference in Texas they might go .500 if they are lucky.

So what would UNI do in the Big 12, playing KU, Baylor, OU, and WV every week instead of Illinois State, Indiana State, and Evansville? The answer is, we don't know. I think they would get pretty worn down over the course of the year personally. It is a knock down drag out all year long. UNI has weeks at a time where they don't face anyone with a pulse. That is pretty easy on your players.

That is also why it wouldn't be shocking to see UNI upset some people in the NCAA Tourney either. They are so much more "fresh" than the P5 teams that are all beaten up and worn out.

UNI is a really good basketball team, no doubt, but it's comparing apples and oranges when trying to compare them with someone like ISU. UNI's league is just so much inferior to the Big 12 it isn't even funny.
 
clonedude;4516769[B said:
]"We"? Are you an ISU fan or a UNI fan?[/B] You have ISU in your screen name.

Anyway, back to the argument here. I said that UNI should be in the dance with a loss today, but I am just not impressed with their resume all that much. They might be really good, we just don't know because they haven't really beaten anyone yet. ISU plays better teams every single week than UNI does all year.

It would be like taking the 4A Iowa high school football champion and putting them in the top high school football conference down in Texas. They might be undefeated in Iowa, but in the best conference in Texas they might go .500 if they are lucky.

So what would UNI do in the Big 12, playing KU, Baylor, OU, and WV every week instead of Illinois State, Indiana State, and Evansville? The answer is, we don't know. I think they would get pretty worn down over the course of the year personally. It is a knock down drag out all year long. UNI has weeks at a time where they don't face anyone with a pulse. That is pretty easy on your players.

That is also why it wouldn't be shocking to see UNI upset some people in the NCAA Tourney either. They are so much more "fresh" than the P5 teams that are all beaten up and worn out.

UNI is a really good basketball team, no doubt, but it's comparing apples and oranges when trying to compare them with someone like ISU. UNI's league is just so much inferior to the Big 12 it isn't even funny.
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I'm both. I've thought I've made it very clear by now in this thread and about 20 others during the course of the season that I'm a dual fan. I grew up in Ames, have a father (now retired) who taught at ISU and had season tickets to basketball games while growing up. I'm not afraid to admit I cried tears of joy last season when we beat UNC.

Now, I also went to school at UNI, went to my fair share of games there as a student, was friends with Seth Anderson (Ames native who played basketball up there), went to the NCAA tournament back in '10 when they (we) beat Kansas. So, yes, I am a dual fan, and unapologetic for being so.

Again...not one single person with a working brain is making the argument that the MVC is equal to or better than the Big 12. I honestly don't know why that keeps coming up.
 
CyForPresident said:
They're RPI will keep them in, but it shouldn't
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I have to admit, I have no idea how they determine RPI, but I don't know how UNI's can be so good?

I'm guessing UNI's RPI is a LOT better than Murray State's, but I'm not sure why? Granted Murray State has 5 losses, but they were to some halfway decent teams. I can see UNI having a little higher RPI than Murray State, but not much higher.

As I said, UNI deserves to be in. But if they played in the Big 12, they might have 17 wins instead of 29 wins. So the same exact team would be on the "bubble" if they played in the Big 12, but because they are in the MVC they deserve a 5 seed? I'm sorry, I don't get it.
 
"We"? Are you an ISU fan or a UNI fan? You have ISU in your screen name.

FWIW, my handle on PantherNation.com is UNIChippewa (to add one more layer to my fandom, I got my Master's from Central Michigan University, the Chippewas, hence the Chippewa in my handle. I could potentially have 3 teams I follow in the NCAA tournament if CMU wins the MAC). I've defended ISU on there a few times against UNI fans being silly, just the way I've defended UNI on here.
 
clonedude said:
I have to admit, I have no idea how they determine RPI, but I don't know how UNI's can be so good?

I'm guessing UNI's RPI is a LOT better than Murray State's, but I'm not sure why? Granted Murray State has 5 losses, but they were to some halfway decent teams. I can see UNI having a little higher RPI than Murray State, but not much higher.

As I said, UNI deserves to be in. But if they played in the Big 12, they might have 17 wins instead of 29 wins. So the same exact team would be on the "bubble" if they played in the Big 12, but because they are in the MVC they deserve a 5 seed? I'm sorry, I don't get it.
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I don't know all the ins and outs of the RPI either, but I believe it is used as a comparison tool for teams from different conferences. Otherwise, if you wanted to do straight conference affiliation for bids, you would have nothing but Power 5 teams. IMO, it's a balancing tool.

Here's a link to ESPN's RPI rankings....surprisingly, Murray State is quite far down the list. Tough for them losing the way they did last night.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/rpi
 
I'm guessing UNI's RPI is a LOT better than Murray State's, but I'm not sure why? Granted Murray State has 5 losses, but they were to some halfway decent teams. I can see UNI having a little higher RPI than Murray State, but not much higher.

I took a second look at Murray State's resume, and while the win-loss record is gaudy, it's actually not that impressive IMO.

They opened the season with a loss at home to a bad Houston team (current RPI of 248) and also on a neutral court to a decent but not great Portland team. Even Belmont only has a KenPom ranking of 147. Murray State also played 2 non Division I opponents. If you're looking for a reason why their RPI is so much lower than UNI's, there you go.
 
So UNI's RPI is 15. And that is with a SOS of 152. ISU's RPI is 11, and that is with a SOS of 20.

I have no idea how any team with a SOS of 152 should have an RPI in the top 30? I guess that's just me.

I would love it if ISU played a SOS of 152. Heck, we could play our 2nd team all year and still make the tourney, and keep our starters fresh. Of course, if ISU played a SOS of 152, we'd get punished for it somehow and wouldn't make the tourney.

But UNI somehow is just a "cute" story or something? Sorry, I just don't get it? But as I've said all along, I'm not saying UNI might not be really, really good, and might even win some games in the NCAA Tourney and make the Sweet Sixteen or higher, who knows?

But all we can go by is who've they played, who've they beaten, and who have they lost to. That's all we have to go on. And with their resume, I just have no clue how they get a 5 seed or higher? I think they should be a 7-9 seed based on their resume.
 
I'm not completely sure but I thought RPI takes your record, and your opponents' record into account. The ratio is something like 25% your record, 50% opponent's record and 25% opponents of your opponent's record. So, UNI played teams with good records without taking into account level of competition? I'm not entirely sure on this and anybody is free to school me on this.
 
clonedude said:
So UNI's RPI is 15. And that is with a SOS of 152. ISU's RPI is 11, and that is with a SOS of 20.

I have no idea how any team with a SOS of 152 should have an RPI in the top 30? I guess that's just me.

I would love it if ISU played a SOS of 152. Heck, we could play our 2nd team all year and still make the tourney, and keep our starters fresh. Of course, if ISU played a SOS of 152, we'd get punished for it somehow and wouldn't make the tourney.

But UNI somehow is just a "cute" story or something? Sorry, I just don't get it? But as I've said all along, I'm not saying UNI might not be really, really good, and might even win some games in the NCAA Tourney and make the Sweet Sixteen or higher, who knows?

But all we can go by is who've they played, who've they beaten, and who have they lost to. That's all we have to go on. And with their resume, I just have no clue how they get a 5 seed or higher? I think they should be a 7-9 seed based on their resume.
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Pretty sure there's nothing in the RPI algorithm for calculating "cute stories". :wink:

UNI's non-conference schedule is actually pretty solid. Won at Stephen F. Austin in the 2nd game of the season, where SFU had won something like 34 straight. SFA's current RPI is 46. Won over Richmond, who is just outside the Top 50 at 54 currently. And, while we all love to bag on Iowa and talk about how much we hate them and how bad they are, they do have an RPI of 37, so a neutral court win over them goes a little ways.
 
UraMallas said:
I'm not completely sure but I thought RPI takes your record, and your opponents' record into account. The ratio is something like 25% your record, 50% opponent's record and 25% opponents of your opponent's record. So, UNI played teams with good records without taking into account level of competition? I'm not entirely sure on this and anybody is free to school me on this.
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I think you pretty much have it.
 
ISUChippewa said:
[/B]
Pretty sure there's nothing in the RPI algorithm for calculating "cute stories". :wink:

UNI's non-conference schedule is actually pretty solid. Won at Stephen F. Austin in the 2nd game of the season, where SFU had won something like 34 straight. SFA's current RPI is 46. Won over Richmond, who is just outside the Top 50 at 54 currently. And, while we all love to bag on Iowa and talk about how much we hate them and how bad they are, they do have an RPI of 37, so a neutral court win over them goes a little ways.
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I understand that the RPI doesn't take into account "cute" stories, I was just trying to figure out how UNI can possibly have an RPI of 15?

I just get the feeling that if ISU has a SOS of 152, we wouldn't even be ranked, because we're expected to play better competition than that or something.

It's just weird, I'll never understand it.
 
clonedude said:
I understand that the RPI doesn't take into account "cute" stories, I was just trying to figure out how UNI can possibly have an RPI of 15?

I just get the feeling that if ISU has a SOS of 152, we wouldn't even be ranked, because we're expected to play better competition than that or something.

It's just weird, I'll never understand it.
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I don't know what to tell you more than what I've already written.

The only other thing I can add is that going 29-3, regardless of who you play, goes a long way.
 
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ISUChippewa said:
I don't know what to tell you more than what I've already written.

The only other thing I can add is that going 29-3, regardless of who you play, goes a long way.
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That's fine. Kudos to UNI. I do hope they go a ways in the tourney just to represent our state, as long as they don't beat ISU.

I just don't see how a team with their resume gets higher than about a 7 or 8 seed? That's all.
 
clonedude said:
That's fine. Kudos to UNI. I do hope they go a ways in the tourney just to represent our state, as long as they don't beat ISU.

I just don't see how a team with their resume gets higher than about a 7 or 8 seed? That's all.
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Pretty much where I'm at. Guess we'll see in the next few weeks how good UNI is, but there is no way anyone can convince me that UNI is a better team than ISU
 
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