From what I have heard, all talks are on the QT. It seems Clemson, FSU, Miami are all afraid of stuff leaking out and being hit with Freedom of Information Act requests. These are the three main targets of interest of the Big XII. Apparently Miami will not move without FSU, but Clemson could go it alone if necessary. #14 ?
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From what I have heard, all talks are on the QT. It seems Clemson, FSU, Miami are all afraid of stuff leaking out and being hit with Freedom of Information Act requests. These are the three main targets of interest of the Big XII. Apparently Miami will not move without FSU, but Clemson could go it alone if necessary. #14 ?
Especially considering the conference still owns rights to the "Big 14" trademark. If that caliber of teams could be lured a new marketing and rebranding effort would be worth it.
I really doubt BYU is on the list anymore outside of "worst case scenario contingency plan". They had their chance long ago and waffled, now teams from the east are showing interest. In what has become a eastward expansion, BYU would become an extreme outpost. I don't even want BYU anymore.
Another link that has been making the rounds the last few days is from UCONN's boneyard. The main poster to follow is "FromTheInside" he represent himself as a valuation expert free agent who has worked for several of the big media boys on realignment. No one seems to know how valid his comments and views are, but most think he is legit. Long thread.......but a lot of good info if interested in this subject. I too think the future of the Big XII is East......unless Plan A & B does not pan out. Who owns the rights to Big XVI...........just saying. 
ACC | Page 2 | The Boneyard
ACC | Page 2 | The Boneyard
Another link that has been making the rounds the last few days is from UCONN's boneyard. The main poster to follow is "FromTheInside" he represent himself as a valuation expert free agent who has worked for several of the big media boys on realignment. No one seems to know how valid his comments and views are, but most think he is legit. Long thread.......but a lot of good info if interested in this subject. I too think the future of the Big XII is East......unless Plan A & B does not pan out. Who owns the rights to Big XVI...........just saying.
ACC | Page 2 | The Boneyard
That is some really interesting stuff.
FromTheInside really appears to know his stuff. He can be a difficult read because of the number of posts. Allow me to simplify some of his information relevant to the Big 12 through paraphrasing and selectively quoting:
* There was supposed to have been an "unofficial" meeting between FSU and Big 12 reps as recently as around March 1 or so.
* One of the complaints FSU mentions in discussions with unofficial Big 12 reps is the ACC's seemingly intentional efforts to make football success difficult for the non-North Carolina schools.
* For example, FSU especially wants a bye week prior to playing Florida, or at least an OOC cupcake opponent. But they always seem to get a conference game.
* FSU complains about always getting stuck with a Thursday away game, never a Thursday home game.
* FSU complains about the ACC having tied up their Tier 3 rights for so long (2023), so money is an issue. Remember, FSU is running in the red.
* It has become clear to the ACC football schools that, short of joining Notre Dame, they are consigned to forever making less money than the other 3 big leagues.
* Clemson is very interested in joining the Big 12. Miami is very interested. Florida State is mildly interested. Georgia Tech isn't interested. Louisville is beating down the door for an invite. Cincinnati is very interested (but has almost no chance). BYU is very interested. Pitt is mildly interested. Arkansas is faintly interested (that might surprise some people). Virginia Tech, North Carolina State, and Maryland are all on the list, but FromTheInside doesn't know if contact has been made with them.
* Florida State and Clemson (among others) talked the ACC down to $20M from the $34M exit fee they were trying to pass.
* "Right now, the Big XII is worth at least $20M, possibly more." [This was before the new contract was leaked. At other times, he gave a range of $19M-20M.]
* "If there were some sort of 3-4 team package of Miami, Florida State, Georgia Tech, Clemson, NC State, etc., the Big XII absolutely would hit the $30M per team per year mark. Absolutely zero question about it."
* "The Big XII made a number of strategically brilliant moves with this latest contract. If they sign at least 2 additional teams (there are restrictions on whom), there is an automatic escalator in the contract that will raise the total payout by $2.05M per team (this based on the added conference championship game). And, they negotiated an opt out clause that will allow them out of the deal to take it to market if they expand to 12 or further, with ESPN/ABC having the right of first refusal on the contract. Once the language of the contract makes its way back to the ACC, I think there will be some nervous presidents & a nervous commissioner, because the Big XII essentially just got a license to hunt, with guaranteed ammo."
* "Per people in the Big XII office, there won't be any movement [with the ACC schools] until there is a new commissioner hired by the Big XII. ... The entire reason the ACC schools initially would be interested in hearing from one of the major conferences is because of their disdain for Commissioner Swofford. So, WHO the commissioner is, and WHAT he stands for is very important to those school."
* "The Big XII makes more than the ACC, and that's not changing."
* "Presently, the Big XII's Fox Sports contract is undervalued. ... Based on Florida State’s and Clemson's valuation, it will put the [Big 12] conference in the $28M - $34.5M per team per year range. So, tell me again how crazy the FSU and Clemson Presidents would be to listen to the Big XII?"
* When "Texas to the Pac-10" rumors started swirling in 2010, it was because Texas was seriously at the precipice of jumping to the Pac-10. When "Texas to the Pac-12" rumors ramped up again in 2011, it was ESPN trying to drum up pressure to get the ACC to accept Texas and the LHN.
* BYU to the Big 12 would be a no brainer if they can become less "self-focused" and more "conference-focused".
* TCU was added over Houston as a purely "defensive measure" against SEC incursions into the Metroplex, not because Houston is not a "worthy" school going into the future.
* "Now, what we won't know until [West Virginia starts] playing in the Big XII is if there is any cross-marketing; meaning, if WVU isn't playing, whether their fans will tune in [to other Big 12 games]."
* "This is why the losses of Nebraska, Colorado, Missouri, and A&M aren’t as bad as people think, because they actually didn’t contribute much to the last TV contract, aside from regional appeal (which was middling at best for CU and MU). ... The Big XII didn't 'lose' any major markets, they simply lost priority coverage in St. Louis and Denver, and the viewers each team drew."
* "TV sets turned on outside a team’s DMA or region have a greater impact on a TV contract than sets turned on in a team’s DMA or region. That’s because it allows the network to expand the footprint of the broadcast."
* The Big 12's television "contract has a 'fair market value' clause in it, which will allow the conference to get a fair market value if the contract is reopened. This clause is not present in the SEC's or ACC's contracts, which is why they won't get the bump in payout that they would on an open market."
* "The only way the ACC could make as much money as the Big XII, SEC, Big Ten, and Pac-12 is if (a) they signed Notre Dame, or (b) a number of teams took huge steps forward to being regular national championship contenders."
* "The ACC already screwed the pooch with Texas, and none of the SEC or Big Ten teams are going to move over. And, they've shown an unwillingness to compromise on academics (though WVU darn near got enough votes for acceptance). So, it's either Notre Dame or bust."
* "ESPN expressly stated their #1 interest was ND. ... ESPN does not want to miss out on the opportunity to control ND's TV rights."
* Regarding ACC expansion with Pitt and Syracuse: "Why do you think ESPN decided against West Virginia? WVU has better TV numbers, better fan support, and a wider geographic TV representation than Pitt or Syracuse. Yeah, a lot of people like to say academics, and that certainly was a strike against them. But, WVU doesn't get ND. Neither does Rutgers. Neither does Louisville. Neither does Kansas (who practically threw themselves at the ACC in 2010 - behind closed doors of course)."
* "But I do know that Pitt was headed to the Big XII with WVU (tentatively) up until Boren (the OU President) developed diarrhea of the mouth around Aug/Sept 2011."
* Regarding television: "The most important variable is two-part: (a) the number of markets tuned in, and (b) the number of sets [viewers] turned on. ... For any school, their value TO THE CONFERENCE is three-fold: (a) TV revenue, (b) post-season revenue, and (c) cross-marketing (which is indirect TV revenue)."
* Regarding Nielson Ratings that recently came out: FOOTBALL: 3,008,000 - Big 12 (adjusted)*; 2,650,000 – ACC; 2,347,000 - Big 12 (unadjusted). BASKETBALL: 1,247,000 – ACC; 1,229,000 - Big 12 (adjusted)*; 1,069,000 - Big 12 (unadjusted). "* The Big XII's numbers are skewed, because two Texas games were aired on the Longhorn Network before a distribution deal had been reached. So, rather than the 6M TVs Texas games usually bring in, the TV ratings for both were in the low 100k range. The same thing occurred for 8 of their basketball games that were televised on the LHN. Their adjusted viewership is marked with an asterisk."
Here are some of FromTheInside's “greatest quotes”:
* "The ACC is essentially a pretty gazelle, feeding along the banks of the Okavango river delta, unaware that as they drink, crocodiles are sneaking up on them under the murky water."
* "The ACC is a crocodile meal; they just don't know it yet, because there isn't a single team in the country they can add, other than Notre Dame, that will put their annual revenue into the realm of the Big Ten or SEC, or the Big XII."
* "Once the language of the [new Big 12] contract makes its way back to the ACC, I think there will be some nervous presidents and a nervous commissioner, because the Big XII essentially just got a license to hunt, with guaranteed ammo."
I may edit from time-to-time to update the wit and wisdom of your friend and mine, FromTheInside.
* There was supposed to have been an "unofficial" meeting between FSU and Big 12 reps as recently as around March 1 or so.
* One of the complaints FSU mentions in discussions with unofficial Big 12 reps is the ACC's seemingly intentional efforts to make football success difficult for the non-North Carolina schools.
* For example, FSU especially wants a bye week prior to playing Florida, or at least an OOC cupcake opponent. But they always seem to get a conference game.
* FSU complains about always getting stuck with a Thursday away game, never a Thursday home game.
* FSU complains about the ACC having tied up their Tier 3 rights for so long (2023), so money is an issue. Remember, FSU is running in the red.
* It has become clear to the ACC football schools that, short of joining Notre Dame, they are consigned to forever making less money than the other 3 big leagues.
* Clemson is very interested in joining the Big 12. Miami is very interested. Florida State is mildly interested. Georgia Tech isn't interested. Louisville is beating down the door for an invite. Cincinnati is very interested (but has almost no chance). BYU is very interested. Pitt is mildly interested. Arkansas is faintly interested (that might surprise some people). Virginia Tech, North Carolina State, and Maryland are all on the list, but FromTheInside doesn't know if contact has been made with them.
* Florida State and Clemson (among others) talked the ACC down to $20M from the $34M exit fee they were trying to pass.
* "Right now, the Big XII is worth at least $20M, possibly more." [This was before the new contract was leaked. At other times, he gave a range of $19M-20M.]
* "If there were some sort of 3-4 team package of Miami, Florida State, Georgia Tech, Clemson, NC State, etc., the Big XII absolutely would hit the $30M per team per year mark. Absolutely zero question about it."
* "The Big XII made a number of strategically brilliant moves with this latest contract. If they sign at least 2 additional teams (there are restrictions on whom), there is an automatic escalator in the contract that will raise the total payout by $2.05M per team (this based on the added conference championship game). And, they negotiated an opt out clause that will allow them out of the deal to take it to market if they expand to 12 or further, with ESPN/ABC having the right of first refusal on the contract. Once the language of the contract makes its way back to the ACC, I think there will be some nervous presidents & a nervous commissioner, because the Big XII essentially just got a license to hunt, with guaranteed ammo."
* "Per people in the Big XII office, there won't be any movement [with the ACC schools] until there is a new commissioner hired by the Big XII. ... The entire reason the ACC schools initially would be interested in hearing from one of the major conferences is because of their disdain for Commissioner Swofford. So, WHO the commissioner is, and WHAT he stands for is very important to those school."
* "The Big XII makes more than the ACC, and that's not changing."
* "Presently, the Big XII's Fox Sports contract is undervalued. ... Based on Florida State’s and Clemson's valuation, it will put the [Big 12] conference in the $28M - $34.5M per team per year range. So, tell me again how crazy the FSU and Clemson Presidents would be to listen to the Big XII?"
* When "Texas to the Pac-10" rumors started swirling in 2010, it was because Texas was seriously at the precipice of jumping to the Pac-10. When "Texas to the Pac-12" rumors ramped up again in 2011, it was ESPN trying to drum up pressure to get the ACC to accept Texas and the LHN.
* BYU to the Big 12 would be a no brainer if they can become less "self-focused" and more "conference-focused".
* TCU was added over Houston as a purely "defensive measure" against SEC incursions into the Metroplex, not because Houston is not a "worthy" school going into the future.
* "Now, what we won't know until [West Virginia starts] playing in the Big XII is if there is any cross-marketing; meaning, if WVU isn't playing, whether their fans will tune in [to other Big 12 games]."
* "This is why the losses of Nebraska, Colorado, Missouri, and A&M aren’t as bad as people think, because they actually didn’t contribute much to the last TV contract, aside from regional appeal (which was middling at best for CU and MU). ... The Big XII didn't 'lose' any major markets, they simply lost priority coverage in St. Louis and Denver, and the viewers each team drew."
* "TV sets turned on outside a team’s DMA or region have a greater impact on a TV contract than sets turned on in a team’s DMA or region. That’s because it allows the network to expand the footprint of the broadcast."
* The Big 12's television "contract has a 'fair market value' clause in it, which will allow the conference to get a fair market value if the contract is reopened. This clause is not present in the SEC's or ACC's contracts, which is why they won't get the bump in payout that they would on an open market."
* "The only way the ACC could make as much money as the Big XII, SEC, Big Ten, and Pac-12 is if (a) they signed Notre Dame, or (b) a number of teams took huge steps forward to being regular national championship contenders."
* "The ACC already screwed the pooch with Texas, and none of the SEC or Big Ten teams are going to move over. And, they've shown an unwillingness to compromise on academics (though WVU darn near got enough votes for acceptance). So, it's either Notre Dame or bust."
* "ESPN expressly stated their #1 interest was ND. ... ESPN does not want to miss out on the opportunity to control ND's TV rights."
* Regarding ACC expansion with Pitt and Syracuse: "Why do you think ESPN decided against West Virginia? WVU has better TV numbers, better fan support, and a wider geographic TV representation than Pitt or Syracuse. Yeah, a lot of people like to say academics, and that certainly was a strike against them. But, WVU doesn't get ND. Neither does Rutgers. Neither does Louisville. Neither does Kansas (who practically threw themselves at the ACC in 2010 - behind closed doors of course)."
* "But I do know that Pitt was headed to the Big XII with WVU (tentatively) up until Boren (the OU President) developed diarrhea of the mouth around Aug/Sept 2011."
* Regarding television: "The most important variable is two-part: (a) the number of markets tuned in, and (b) the number of sets [viewers] turned on. ... For any school, their value TO THE CONFERENCE is three-fold: (a) TV revenue, (b) post-season revenue, and (c) cross-marketing (which is indirect TV revenue)."
* Regarding Nielson Ratings that recently came out: FOOTBALL: 3,008,000 - Big 12 (adjusted)*; 2,650,000 – ACC; 2,347,000 - Big 12 (unadjusted). BASKETBALL: 1,247,000 – ACC; 1,229,000 - Big 12 (adjusted)*; 1,069,000 - Big 12 (unadjusted). "* The Big XII's numbers are skewed, because two Texas games were aired on the Longhorn Network before a distribution deal had been reached. So, rather than the 6M TVs Texas games usually bring in, the TV ratings for both were in the low 100k range. The same thing occurred for 8 of their basketball games that were televised on the LHN. Their adjusted viewership is marked with an asterisk."
Here are some of FromTheInside's “greatest quotes”:
* "The ACC is essentially a pretty gazelle, feeding along the banks of the Okavango river delta, unaware that as they drink, crocodiles are sneaking up on them under the murky water."
* "The ACC is a crocodile meal; they just don't know it yet, because there isn't a single team in the country they can add, other than Notre Dame, that will put their annual revenue into the realm of the Big Ten or SEC, or the Big XII."
* "Once the language of the [new Big 12] contract makes its way back to the ACC, I think there will be some nervous presidents and a nervous commissioner, because the Big XII essentially just got a license to hunt, with guaranteed ammo."
I may edit from time-to-time to update the wit and wisdom of your friend and mine, FromTheInside.
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I'll summarize XOVERX's summary. Big XII is a stable conference going forward and the ACC might be desert.
This is good news. When is the B12 supposed to be announcing the new commissioner, July 1? So July 2 we add?
I would love to see Florida State, Clemson, Virginia Tech and Miami join the Big 12!!!!!
North:
Iowa State
Kansas State
Kansas
Oklahoma State
Oklahoma
West Virginia
Virginia Tech
South:
Texas
Texas Tech
TCU
Baylor
Florida State
Miami
Clemson
WOW!!!!!
North:
Iowa State
Kansas State
Kansas
Oklahoma State
Oklahoma
West Virginia
Virginia Tech
South:
Texas
Texas Tech
TCU
Baylor
Florida State
Miami
Clemson
WOW!!!!!
ALSO-Anyone who has an account on the Boneyard, Get FromtheInside to make a CF account.please.
I'd like to see ND swapped with Va Tech for maximum cash/prestige. I wouldn't say no to that lineup though.
I think most of us would. Of course, most of us realize that ND as a football conference member is pretty much a pipe dream.
Very cool. But don't you think they'd split east/west?
East:
Miami
FSU
Clem
VT
WV
Texas
TCU
West:
OU
OSU
KU
KSU
ISU
TT
BU
I like yours better but logistically wouldn't the schools want it as I have it?
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