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STEELE!!!

I don't really see a stat that says JB was better there. The whole team played better because we played such terrible defenses in those 3 games. If there was a "bottom 25" ranking for defense, all 3 of those teams would be in it and KU would clearly be the number 1. You could make a pretty good argument that UNI had a better defense than Kansas.

If anything, I see 2 QBs who did just enough to win those 6 games, and neither 1 of them clearly distanced himself from the other. Whoever improves the most between now and August will win the job. That's really the long and short of this whole thing.
 
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nhclone said:
If anything, I see 2 QBs who did just enough to win those 6 games, and neither 1 of them clearly distanced himself from the other. Whoever improves the most between now and August will win the job. That's really the long and short of this whole thing.
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I can't rep nh, but he hit the nail on the head. There isn't a lot of separation between the two. There is a lot of time for them to work on their strengths and weaknesses and a lot of practices in the fall for them to win or lose the job.

+1i
 
FootballinTexas said:
I'm gonna bypass opinion and put in some facts here. Fact is, the spring game was 1 of 15 practices and if you did not see all 15 its unfair for either guy to input my opinion on what or how they have or have not improved. So, I'm gonna continue with facts instead and you can go from there. As with the 15 practices, I looked at a body of work, the 3 games that "Steele" won and the 3 games that JB played in but the"defense" won. Here are the stats pulled from espn.com. Then you can have some real facts to debate.

Steele: UNI, Iowa, UCONN

Passing: 61/106 666 yards 6TD's /6 INT's 58% Comp
Rushing: 39 carries for 112 yards 2 TD's 2.9 YPC

Team Points 88 Opponent Points 80

TOP - UNI 24:44, Iowa 29:00, UConn 28:10

Barnett: TT, KU, OSU

Passing: 61/114 700 yards 4 TD's / 3 INT's 54%
Rushing: 55 carries for 300 yards 1 TD 5.5 YPC

Team Points 91 Opponent Points 49

TOP - TT 40:09, KU 30:43, OSU 35:13

I didn't think it would be fair for SJ fans to list data on their losses because technically we were in the OU game minus the turnovers and KSU game went to the wire. We actually outperformed KSU in almost every offensive category. However, we were not on the same field in the other losses except maybe BU. You can argue SJ's injury but JB was playing with 2 cracked ribs from early in the KU game. We can debate that some of his fumbles were byproducts of that injury but it wouldnt be facts. Just like we cant say SJ injury cause his issues. He had 6 of his INT's before the injury. You can debate these QB's until youre blue in the face. But people never bring it back to how the "team" played with these two QB's. The facts say go with JB. We are not built to be flashy, we are built to be efficient. The whole team is affected in a positive way. And the last time i checked, this was a team sport. Our "best chance to win" is when we're moving the chains, controlling the clock, and keeping these more high-powered offenses off the field.
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I like your breakdown. I guess what makes me so nervous about the whole situation is that we aren't talking about how great the QBs are performing in a dead heat, but instead we are struggling to find positives. In the end, i think the key to our offense is being an accurate passer. Comparing the two from last year, it seemed on the field that that would be in JBs favor, I was surprised that it was SJ. Amazing how much those early INTs have clouded my judgement.

In the end, i honestly believe the coaches will make the right call. I've seen it too many times, especially in Chicago where your back-up is always the best QB on the team. And I really hope that isn't a mentality that we have to worry about this year. Deep down though, I have to admit, I am anxious to see a healthy SJ out there, he's definitely the more exciting of the two QBs.
 
Us,
nhclone said:
I don't really see a stat that says JB was better there. The whole team played better because we played such terrible defenses in those 3 games. If there was a "bottom 25" ranking for defense, all 3 of those teams would be in it and KU would clearly be the number 1. You could make a pretty good argument that UNI had a better defense than Kansas.

If anything, I see 2 QBs who did just enough to win those 6 games, and neither 1 of them clearly distanced himself from the other. Whoever improves the most between now and August will win the job. That's really the long and short of this whole thing.
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The whole team played better. Thats the point right, to win all three phases of the game. That takes a "team effort". You do understand that TT beat OU. You do understand that our lowly offense put up the second highest amount of offensive production against OSU the entire season. The only BIg 12 QB to outperform JB was RGIII. That includes Tannehill, Franklin, Doedge, Jones, and those UT guys. I will give you KU, but if OSU and TT are so bad, why didnt these high powered Big 12 offenses just blow them away. Plus, youre comparing Big 12 offenses against Missouri Valley and Big East. The defensive stats will be skewed because of the power Big 12 offenses. If you think our conference teams are less or worse, the Big 12 should quit ******** about not getting into BCS championship games.
 
I hate QB competitions b/c you end up with fanbases dragging players threw the mud to make the point for the other player. I know I've done it.

I thought Jantz looked better on Saturday. I thought Barnett scrambled well and utilitzed the pump fake to get around defenders. We will probably see both this year unless one really steps up their game
 
Clones85' said:
I hate QB competitions b/c you end up with fanbases dragging players threw the mud to make the point for the other player. I know I've done it.

I thought Jantz looked better on Saturday. I thought Barnett scrambled well and utilitzed the pump fake to get around defenders. We will probably see both this year unless one really steps up their game
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I hate them too.
I agree, that just looking at the stats from Saturday, SJ performed better and many simply jumped to a conclusion without listening to the people in the know. I also know that you have to look at the big picture and all 15 practices. The other 14 practices and scrimmages is not what 99% of the people on this board saw on Saturday. That's why I try to give facts, not just opinion. Like I've said before, I like SJ from the outside and I've never talked bad about him. I don't know the kid personally. Even though i know JB personally and support him, my words always come back to "team".
 
FootballinTexas said:
Us,

The whole team played better. Thats the point right, to win all three phases of the game. That takes a "team effort". You do understand that TT beat OU. You do understand that our lowly offense put up the second highest amount of offensive production against OSU the entire season. The only BIg 12 QB to outperform JB was RGIII. That includes Tannehill, Franklin, Doedge, Jones, and those UT guys. I will give you KU, but if OSU and TT are so bad, why didnt these high powered Big 12 offenses just blow them away. Plus, youre comparing Big 12 offenses against Missouri Valley and Big East. The defensive stats will be skewed because of the power Big 12 offenses. If you think our conference teams are less or worse, the Big 12 should quit ******** about not getting into BCS championship games.
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We'll go 1 by 1 here.

1) Yes the whole team played better. Do you think the D and ST played better due to the QB, or because it was later in the season? If they played better because of the QB, then my concerns now are moving over to our leaders on D instead of the QB battle.

2) Yes, I realize TT beat OU. Syracuse also beat WVU last season (and handily). Does that mean a 5-7 Syracuse is better than 10-3 WV? Upsets happen.

3) Nowhere did I say that the Big 12 teams were worse overall than those other schools. I was talking about defense, the side of the ball that our Qbs are competing against.

4) Yes, the Big 12 has better offenses than almost any conference in the country. Texas played all those same teams as well, and was still ranked 14th in total defense. It will skew the defensive stats, but a team with legitimate defensive talent can still do well. None of those 3 teams have that.

5) Oklahoma State's 3 worst offensive games (points wise) in Big 12 play? Us, KState, and Texas. The 3 things they all have in common? A strong running game. Oklahoma State was succeptible to a powerful running game which caused them to bring extra players in the box and opened the passing game up. We were built to have a good game against them offensively.
 
Clonefan94 said:
I like your breakdown. I guess what makes me so nervous about the whole situation is that we aren't talking about how great the QBs are performing in a dead heat, but instead we are struggling to find positives. In the end, i think the key to our offense is being an accurate passer. Comparing the two from last year, it seemed on the field that that would be in JBs favor, I was surprised that it was SJ. Amazing how much those early INTs have clouded my judgement.

In the end, i honestly believe the coaches will make the right call. I've seen it too many times, especially in Chicago where your back-up is always the best QB on the team. And I really hope that isn't a mentality that we have to worry about this year. Deep down though, I have to admit, I am anxious to see a healthy SJ out there, he's definitely the more exciting of the two QBs.
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Ball control and time of possession is the biggest key to our offense. That is likely the best way for ISU to stay in the games vs the quick hitting offenses of the Big 12. This is the same strategy employed by Snyder and KSU. Also gives your D time to rest.
Accurate passing is a big part of that but I don't think we will/can ever beat anyone in a shootout. We need to control the LOS.
 
The thing is how the staff called the game. I'm sure we could have also ran effectively with Jantz, but the staff wanted the ball in his hands instead. Too me it just seemed like the knew he had "it" and they wanted him to come alive more than anything. Even though Barnett has been in the offense longer, they didn't want him throwing it much.
 
nhclone said:
We'll go 1 by 1 here.

1) Yes the whole team played better. Do you think the D and ST played better due to the QB, or because it was later in the season? If they played better because of the QB, then my concerns now are moving over to our leaders on D instead of the QB battle.

2) Yes, I realize TT beat OU. Syracuse also beat WVU last season (and handily). Does that mean a 5-7 Syracuse is better than 10-3 WV? Upsets happen.

3) Nowhere did I say that the Big 12 teams were worse overall than those other schools. I was talking about defense, the side of the ball that our Qbs are competing against.

4) Yes, the Big 12 has better offenses than almost any conference in the country. Texas played all those same teams as well, and was still ranked 14th in total defense. It will skew the defensive stats, but a team with legitimate defensive talent can still do well. None of those 3 teams have that.

5) Oklahoma State's 3 worst offensive games (points wise) in Big 12 play? Us, KState, and Texas. The 3 things they all have in common? A strong running game. Oklahoma State was succeptible to a powerful running game which caused them to bring extra players in the box and opened the passing game up. We were built to have a good game against them offensively.
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Answers to your points:

1. No, it had to do with the stuff that dont show up in stats, Leadership and Trust
2. I agree, we beat OSU and TT
3. Our defenses are ranked lower because of the styles of offenses they play week to week
4. UT is built for defense right now. Even with their power running game, the defense will have to stop people. They depend on that. 4 top 10 offenses in the country are from the Big 12
5. Thanks for making my point. To slow high powered offenses, you run the damn football, move the chains, and keep your best team....the defense, rested. See Alabama. #50 in offense but #1 in defense. BCS national champs!
 
FootballinTexas said:
Answers to your points:

1. No, it had to do with the stuff that dont show up in stats, Leadership and Trust
2. I agree, we beat OSU and TT
3. Our defenses are ranked lower because of the styles of offenses they play week to week
4. UT is built for defense right now. Even with their power running game, the defense will have to stop people. They depend on that. 4 top 10 offenses in the country are from the Big 12
5. Thanks for making my point. To slow high powered offenses, you run the damn football, move the chains, and keep your best team....the defense, rested. See Alabama. #50 in offense but #1 in defense. BCS national champs!
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I would hope that both guys are providing that leadership for the rest of the team, whether they are in the game at QB or on the sidelines.

Missouri, Oklahoma, and TAMU all had respectable defenses (ranked in the 60's) while having the 4th, 7th, and 12th ranked offense. I don't doubt that is slightly skewed by being in the Big 12, but they don't fit your description of being built for defense, and they still managed to be respectable defensively because they have talent on that side of the ball that just wasn't there for teams like those 3 just simply don't.

I wouldn't have any problem with JB winning the battle for number 1 this season, but my point is that trying to say there is some type of statistical advantage to him in his games last season, doesn't really show up when you look at all of the facts. Both QBs have a long ways to go if we want to be competing for big things this season.
 
Ok, one more time for nhclone, I never said JB had a statistical advantage. I gave you the statistics....obviously it's a wash, SJ had a better passing %, JB had a better rushing %. The telling sign are the "team" stats. how did the "team" as a whole perform?

Listen guys, I'm rooting for JB but I won't the Cyclones to win. If its SJ great, I'll cheer for him and the team just last I did last year. If its SR great, he gets the same. I'm just posting facts here.
 
RustShack said:
The thing is how the staff called the game. I'm sure we could have also ran effectively with Jantz, but the staff wanted the ball in his hands instead. Too me it just seemed like the knew he had "it" and they wanted him to come alive more than anything. Even though Barnett has been in the offense longer, they didn't want him throwing it much.
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This is my feeling. IMO, the staff sees a higher ceiling and more production potential when SJ is behind the wheel. They are just waiting for Steele to realize turnovers are very bad and to not force a ball into tight coverage. And, either the next play would be a potential better option, OR punting and making the opponent go 80 or 90 yards is a lot better than having to go 20 or 30. SJ just made some throws that everyone in the stadium wondered wtf is he thinking. As he gains more experience w/ B12 play, I think he will be able to be a smarter QB.

I just want less boneheaded plays, by either QB, and have the team live for another down. I remember saying last year that a pass out of bounds was probably one of the best decisions all day.
 
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