I only saw bits and pieces of the KU game, and now I wish I had watched more. What style of Offense do they run? What style of Defense? I have no real insight on them as a team.
SCOUTING TCU DEFENSE AND OFFENSE
- Thread starter GoClones123
- Start date
Do they still run that 4-2-5 that got a lot of press the last few years because they were so good with it?
Which is why, as bad as pretty much the entire offense played on Saturday, I'm not ready to give up on this season yet. I do still think there are problems with this offense, but going into this game everyone thought that Texas Tech having a top 5 defense was a joke, and when their defense owned our offense, instead of considering that perhaps the numbers weren't lying about Tech's defense we all automatically assumed that the problem solely existed with our offense.
IF Tech's defense is that good, then we won't face a better defense this year and our offensive performance should be better in upcoming games. But one conference game is not really a good sample size (yeah, I know, Iowa game).
Definitely agree with this. That's why I'm really hating the Jantz trashing after this game.
-Tech has a great D
-Oline was terrible
-WR were locked up
Really don't think Barnett would have made much of a difference.
I watched most of TCU @ KU, and it was ugly. It was early season, of course, and the first Big 12 game for both coaching staffs, so I don't think there was much to take away from this game. What I've since learned is that TCU is playing a lot of younger players, including 15 freshman. They are ranked 15th due to their consistent perfomance over the last 8 years, and a solid win over Virginia. TCU will be be favored Saturday, but ISU's depth and experience will give the Cyclones a big advantage.
TCU is also coming off of an emotional game at SMU, which is their traditional rivalry. TCU is from Ft Worth, and SMU is from Dallas. TCU is more the Iowa in that rivalry, whereas SMU is the Iowa State. Given their youth, they could come into this game a little flat. There will be a buzz on the TCU campus this week, given its their first time hosting a Big 12 game, so lets assume they will be pumped.
TCU is also coming off of an emotional game at SMU, which is their traditional rivalry. TCU is from Ft Worth, and SMU is from Dallas. TCU is more the Iowa in that rivalry, whereas SMU is the Iowa State. Given their youth, they could come into this game a little flat. There will be a buzz on the TCU campus this week, given its their first time hosting a Big 12 game, so lets assume they will be pumped.
I agree with this ^
If we are sticking with the zone read we might as well play Barnett, he is alot better at it than Jantz. Barnett was recruited for his ability to play the zone read, he played it in high school, he is very comfortable with it. I also think that if ISU cant connect with any recievers down field, and we are throwing shallow flat passes, then Jantz's supposed arm strength means very little.
Based on the bits and pieces I've watched of their Virginia and SMU games, thier offense is not all its cracked up to be. If we can pressure Paschall we can hold them under 17 points. SMU QB (UTtransfer) Garrett Gilbert was 15-40 passing, but still managed to outgain TCU's total offense.
Kind of like when we were pumped starting 3-0, hoping for a win and a possible ranking and hosting our first big 12 game for the year? I hope so.
If TT defense is really the best we will see, and I doubt that, then I have a little less to worry about with our offense. TCU is vulnerable for the CPR special on a ranked team on the road. We just have to execute on the offense better to limit mistakes and play our consistent, very good defense. Offense has to move the ball and gain at least 1 first down every possession and not turn the ball over. This will give our defense the rest it needs to be very effective.
I was impressed with our defense through 3 quarters Saturday night, providing plenty of pressure, especially in the 1st half. If we can get pressure on TCU and stone them throughout the night in the run game and get a couple of picks we will be fine. I like the urgency of the entire program from the top on down, we didnt feel it until aTm last year, and you saw what happened because of it. I think we will be ok this year. hopefully 8-4 ok rather than 6-6 ok.
TCU had no trouble moving the ball up and down the field against Kansas. They really ran into struggles once they got the ball in the redzone. All of a sudden they couldn't run the ball and they couldn't call the deeper passing plays that they love to run between the 20's. They also turned the ball over a couple of times in the redzone as well.
On defense Kansas was able to gash TCU with the running game. That opened up the passing game and KU was able to hit on a couple of deep throws. Kansas was able to move the ball fairly well against TCU until they got in the redzone. Once Kansas got inside the 20 TCU locked them down and Kansas wasn't able to move the ball at all.
On defense Kansas was able to gash TCU with the running game. That opened up the passing game and KU was able to hit on a couple of deep throws. Kansas was able to move the ball fairly well against TCU until they got in the redzone. Once Kansas got inside the 20 TCU locked them down and Kansas wasn't able to move the ball at all.
Kansas being able to run on TCU is encouraging for our chances.
Edit: What game were you watching? I just looked and Kansas had 77 rushing yards on the game to go with 303 yards passing. That still bodes well for us, since a big part of our problem against Tech was our recievers were well covered. But Kansas didn't have a great rushing day against TCU.
Edit: What game were you watching? I just looked and Kansas had 77 rushing yards on the game to go with 303 yards passing. That still bodes well for us, since a big part of our problem against Tech was our recievers were well covered. But Kansas didn't have a great rushing day against TCU.
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Kansas was running the ball fairly well early in the game. Once they fell behind they pretty much gave up on the run game and became focused solely on the passing game. Kansas doesn't have the best running backs in the word but they did find success running the ball.
TCU fan here. Felt I would share some info about the team.
On offense, TCU runs a balanced spread attack where they try to run about as much as they pass. In the last couple of years, TCU has been more willing to open up the play book by throwing the ball more down the field but is not afraid to also throw in some option, wildcat formations, or diamond formation setups. This season the offense has not performed as well as some would have hoped due in part to some injuries and growing pains on the line. Pachall is a solid passing quarterback who can hurt teams when he has enough time to throw. Unfortunately, that has been inconsistent this year. TCU does have a solid group of WRs to throw the ball too. RBs were solid to start the year but is becoming an area of some concern with some injuries and Wesley leaving early. Just like the defense, the team should continue to get better as the younger players get more experience.
On defense, TCU still does the 4-2-5. Last year was a rough year for TCU in terms of defense as it is was a far cry from what TCU fans have been used to which has been one of the better defenses in the country. This year, the defense is better than last year but is still a year or two away from getting back to the defenses we had in 2009 and 2010. It has talent especially at DL and safety positions but is lean elsewhere due to injuries and inexperience. TCU won't really know exactly how good this unit is until several more games are played. After playing ya'll, Tech, and Baylor, they should have a pretty good idea. So far it has basically been a bend but not break defense.
As for the SMU v. TCU rivalry stuff, that is a traditional rivalry. However, from TCU's perspective, there is not much of a rivalry left. It is a rivalry game for SMU only who pretty much play it like its their Super Bowl but it is not a big game for TCU. Unfortunately, as TCU was building back up their program the past 10 to 12 years, SMU has largely remained the same. There is a lot of talk about ending the series now as it is not really a good fit for TCU. In the last 13 times the teams have played, TCU has won 11 of them. TCU is also now able to schedule bigger name teams in the past for home and homes. For example, TCU just inked a deal to play Ohio State in 2018 and 2019.
On offense, TCU runs a balanced spread attack where they try to run about as much as they pass. In the last couple of years, TCU has been more willing to open up the play book by throwing the ball more down the field but is not afraid to also throw in some option, wildcat formations, or diamond formation setups. This season the offense has not performed as well as some would have hoped due in part to some injuries and growing pains on the line. Pachall is a solid passing quarterback who can hurt teams when he has enough time to throw. Unfortunately, that has been inconsistent this year. TCU does have a solid group of WRs to throw the ball too. RBs were solid to start the year but is becoming an area of some concern with some injuries and Wesley leaving early. Just like the defense, the team should continue to get better as the younger players get more experience.
On defense, TCU still does the 4-2-5. Last year was a rough year for TCU in terms of defense as it is was a far cry from what TCU fans have been used to which has been one of the better defenses in the country. This year, the defense is better than last year but is still a year or two away from getting back to the defenses we had in 2009 and 2010. It has talent especially at DL and safety positions but is lean elsewhere due to injuries and inexperience. TCU won't really know exactly how good this unit is until several more games are played. After playing ya'll, Tech, and Baylor, they should have a pretty good idea. So far it has basically been a bend but not break defense.
As for the SMU v. TCU rivalry stuff, that is a traditional rivalry. However, from TCU's perspective, there is not much of a rivalry left. It is a rivalry game for SMU only who pretty much play it like its their Super Bowl but it is not a big game for TCU. Unfortunately, as TCU was building back up their program the past 10 to 12 years, SMU has largely remained the same. There is a lot of talk about ending the series now as it is not really a good fit for TCU. In the last 13 times the teams have played, TCU has won 11 of them. TCU is also now able to schedule bigger name teams in the past for home and homes. For example, TCU just inked a deal to play Ohio State in 2018 and 2019.
Hey Cyclones! It seems that your fanbase hasn't seen a ton of TCU football--which is understandable--so here are a few random thoughts about the Frogs for y'all to digest.
First and foremost, as a poster mentioned, this team is YOUNG--in fact, it is the youngest in the Patterson Era and is tied with LSU and Ohio State for playing the most freshmen in 2012. With that being said, there is a ton of talent--but, overall, they have underperformed as opposed to playing above their heads (which was a hallmark of Patterson-led teams of the past few years).
I think the offense is better than what you have seen and what the stats say...but the defense is a bit worse than what you have seen and what the stats say. This team is probably a 7-5 team in the Big 12...8-4 would be wonderful but I am having a hard time seeing the 8th win.
OFFENSE
We run multiple formations...and typically run them pretty well. I have seen games over the past years where the QB is truly a game manager...and some (like Boise State last year) where we live and die by he passing game. Our offensive coordinators adjust to the opponent and what is working...so you can't get comfortable. However, with Waymon James out for the year (TCU's best tailback--talent-wise--since Ladainian Tomlinson)...I would expect a heavy dose of passing.
DEFENSE
Patterson's patented 4-2-5. After having a run where we finished as the nation's #1 defense for three years in a row, the Frogs were torched last year. This year is getting back to the Patterson basics but I am not 100% convinced that we are going to be as solid as '09-'11. Before you make the standard Big 12 comment--"Yeah, but that was in the Mountain West"--please note that we did have some great players (Jerry Hughes, Daryl Washington, Jason Phillips, Tank Carder, etc.) and have always held up to some really solid BCS offenses--holding a Wisconsin team that scored 80 in a game to 19 points, crushing RGIII in 2010 45-10 (he got his payback last year), dismantling Toby Gerhardt's Stanford team twice, etc. etc. We were fairly legit.
Frogs to watch...
Casey Pachall, QB - talented, big, strong arm...however, there is a ton of worry among the Frog faithful that he is being beat up a bit over the first 4 games due to a very questionable (and that's being a homer) OL. The SMU game was played in a monsoon, otherwise, Pachall would likely still have the title of being the most efficient passer in the NCAA. He is a legit NFL prospect with a talented group of WRs...but that isn't any good when you are getting rushed, hurried, and knocked out due to gaping holes in the OL.
Matthew Tucker, RB - a rare senior...getting the majority of the carries with Waymon James out. Tucker is no stranger to playing time having been a major contributor for the last 3 seasons. He led the team in TDs in 2011 despite being outgained by James. He is an NFL-style back--strong and a good zone runner--but he is not going to single-handedly beat anyone. I expect Patterson to test the waters with Tucker early to see if we can control the clock. The two problems with that--Tucker was banged up a bit vs. SMU and--as mentioned earlier--our OL sucks.
Josh Boyce, WR - Brandon Carter, WR - LaDarius Brown, WR, and Skye Dawson, WR - This is the most talent TCU has ever had a WR and Dawson is the only senior. Boyce is the all-time TD reception leader at TCU and is only a junior. He is fast, strong, and until last week--had extremely good hands. Brandon Carter--originally an OU commit--is a star in the making. He is much smaller than Boyce but is explosive and has exceptional hands (see his 2 one-handed grabs vs. Virginia). Brown is a RS freshman and was our highest recruit from 2 years ago...ranked as high as the #2 WR in all of Texas. He is just now getting into the offensive gameplan but could be a big difference maker being 225 lbs. and running a 4.4. Dawson is the elder statesman and was an all-MWC track star. He is fast--but small with questionable hands. He is good for one brilliant play and one fumble per game. I wouldn't worry too much about Skye beating you.
Stansly Maponga, DE - The next wave of great TCU pass rushing DEs. He has only been playing football for a bit (originally from Zimbabwe) but is a freak athlete. I personally believe his numbers are a bit inflated from playing in the MWC (he is not as legit as All-American Jerry Hughes was in 2009) but he has a great motor. I think his work is being overshadowed by a true freshman...
Devonte Fields, DE - True freshman from nearby Arlington. Great athlete and the star of our recruiting class of '11. He has a ton of room to grow but could be a thorn in the side of the Big 12 for the next four years.
Kenny Cain, LB - The only senior on the defense...but he gives us some stability in the middle. Our LB core is THIN...I am talking Sun Belt thin...but he is very solid and a great tackler. The Frogs were hit hard by the drug scandal (Tanner Brock), grades (Deryk Gildon), and injury (Danny Heiss) at the LB position--it hasn't been exposed yet but it will (mark my words). Cain is probably the most important person on the TCU squad this year.
One area where I do think we will hold our own vs. the Big 12's elite is our Special Teams (minus all of the drops by our punter and holder vs. SMU). We have a bevy of return specialists that are threats to take it to the house at any time--freshman Deante Gray and Skye Dawson being at the top of the list.
Overall, I think you will see a TCU team that plays markedly better than the first 4 games--but it will still be a sloppy slugfest. The homer in me has TCU winning 20-13...but its anyone's guess with this team.
First and foremost, as a poster mentioned, this team is YOUNG--in fact, it is the youngest in the Patterson Era and is tied with LSU and Ohio State for playing the most freshmen in 2012. With that being said, there is a ton of talent--but, overall, they have underperformed as opposed to playing above their heads (which was a hallmark of Patterson-led teams of the past few years).
I think the offense is better than what you have seen and what the stats say...but the defense is a bit worse than what you have seen and what the stats say. This team is probably a 7-5 team in the Big 12...8-4 would be wonderful but I am having a hard time seeing the 8th win.
OFFENSE
We run multiple formations...and typically run them pretty well. I have seen games over the past years where the QB is truly a game manager...and some (like Boise State last year) where we live and die by he passing game. Our offensive coordinators adjust to the opponent and what is working...so you can't get comfortable. However, with Waymon James out for the year (TCU's best tailback--talent-wise--since Ladainian Tomlinson)...I would expect a heavy dose of passing.
DEFENSE
Patterson's patented 4-2-5. After having a run where we finished as the nation's #1 defense for three years in a row, the Frogs were torched last year. This year is getting back to the Patterson basics but I am not 100% convinced that we are going to be as solid as '09-'11. Before you make the standard Big 12 comment--"Yeah, but that was in the Mountain West"--please note that we did have some great players (Jerry Hughes, Daryl Washington, Jason Phillips, Tank Carder, etc.) and have always held up to some really solid BCS offenses--holding a Wisconsin team that scored 80 in a game to 19 points, crushing RGIII in 2010 45-10 (he got his payback last year), dismantling Toby Gerhardt's Stanford team twice, etc. etc. We were fairly legit.
Frogs to watch...
Casey Pachall, QB - talented, big, strong arm...however, there is a ton of worry among the Frog faithful that he is being beat up a bit over the first 4 games due to a very questionable (and that's being a homer) OL. The SMU game was played in a monsoon, otherwise, Pachall would likely still have the title of being the most efficient passer in the NCAA. He is a legit NFL prospect with a talented group of WRs...but that isn't any good when you are getting rushed, hurried, and knocked out due to gaping holes in the OL.
Matthew Tucker, RB - a rare senior...getting the majority of the carries with Waymon James out. Tucker is no stranger to playing time having been a major contributor for the last 3 seasons. He led the team in TDs in 2011 despite being outgained by James. He is an NFL-style back--strong and a good zone runner--but he is not going to single-handedly beat anyone. I expect Patterson to test the waters with Tucker early to see if we can control the clock. The two problems with that--Tucker was banged up a bit vs. SMU and--as mentioned earlier--our OL sucks.
Josh Boyce, WR - Brandon Carter, WR - LaDarius Brown, WR, and Skye Dawson, WR - This is the most talent TCU has ever had a WR and Dawson is the only senior. Boyce is the all-time TD reception leader at TCU and is only a junior. He is fast, strong, and until last week--had extremely good hands. Brandon Carter--originally an OU commit--is a star in the making. He is much smaller than Boyce but is explosive and has exceptional hands (see his 2 one-handed grabs vs. Virginia). Brown is a RS freshman and was our highest recruit from 2 years ago...ranked as high as the #2 WR in all of Texas. He is just now getting into the offensive gameplan but could be a big difference maker being 225 lbs. and running a 4.4. Dawson is the elder statesman and was an all-MWC track star. He is fast--but small with questionable hands. He is good for one brilliant play and one fumble per game. I wouldn't worry too much about Skye beating you.
Stansly Maponga, DE - The next wave of great TCU pass rushing DEs. He has only been playing football for a bit (originally from Zimbabwe) but is a freak athlete. I personally believe his numbers are a bit inflated from playing in the MWC (he is not as legit as All-American Jerry Hughes was in 2009) but he has a great motor. I think his work is being overshadowed by a true freshman...
Devonte Fields, DE - True freshman from nearby Arlington. Great athlete and the star of our recruiting class of '11. He has a ton of room to grow but could be a thorn in the side of the Big 12 for the next four years.
Kenny Cain, LB - The only senior on the defense...but he gives us some stability in the middle. Our LB core is THIN...I am talking Sun Belt thin...but he is very solid and a great tackler. The Frogs were hit hard by the drug scandal (Tanner Brock), grades (Deryk Gildon), and injury (Danny Heiss) at the LB position--it hasn't been exposed yet but it will (mark my words). Cain is probably the most important person on the TCU squad this year.
One area where I do think we will hold our own vs. the Big 12's elite is our Special Teams (minus all of the drops by our punter and holder vs. SMU). We have a bevy of return specialists that are threats to take it to the house at any time--freshman Deante Gray and Skye Dawson being at the top of the list.
Overall, I think you will see a TCU team that plays markedly better than the first 4 games--but it will still be a sloppy slugfest. The homer in me has TCU winning 20-13...but its anyone's guess with this team.