Are there any of those even on the team?
And if so, get someone who thinks its a good thing to fund a spiritual advisor for those players.
If not, why are we even debating this??
Prof. Avila
- Thread starter rollcy
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Are there any of those even on the team?
And if so, get someone who thinks its a good thing to fund a spiritual advisor for those players.
If not, why are we even debating this??
I'm willing to bet that all 105 roster players are/will not be practicing Christians. Maybe another faith, maybe no faith at all. Even so, I'm just as willing to bet that given the wide differences of values within the Christian faith, there will be issues having a chaplain of a particular denomination.
Huh? What about the "no-faith".
As I said, I don't really care. But you have to admit you can see this fight coming a mile away.
Here's the simple answer - need spritual help?
Huh? What about the "no-faith".
As I said, I don't really care. But you have to admit you can see this fight coming a mile away.
Here's the simple answer - need spritual help?
"No-faith" is the easiest of all to deal with...don't go to the chaplain. Chizik has made it clear that this person will be someone who the players can come to...not that he is bringing religion to them.
"Originally Posted by Deace
Coach Chizik understands that the only way to ultimately live a meaningful life, and there’s nothing a man craves more than a legacy, is to have a healthy relationship with the Maker. It’s when we don’t that we have a tendency to make bad decisions, the sorts of decisions that can irreparably damage our lives and the lives of those around us. I know that I am a far different father, husband, and man in the years since I got to know my Father than I was when I was a spiritual orphan. I’m certainly not perfect, but I’m no longer a lost soul, either."
This is exactly what makes me angry with what I call overly religious people. I know what I beleive, as do many others, but then you have people like Deace who think their religion is the only one that matters and they try to spew out that if don't believe what they do you will "irreparably damage your lives". B.S. there are plenty of people out there who don't need to turn to their particular beliefs to make decisions and they are perfectly fine people, contrary to what Deace preaches.
Coach Chizik understands that the only way to ultimately live a meaningful life, and there’s nothing a man craves more than a legacy, is to have a healthy relationship with the Maker. It’s when we don’t that we have a tendency to make bad decisions, the sorts of decisions that can irreparably damage our lives and the lives of those around us. I know that I am a far different father, husband, and man in the years since I got to know my Father than I was when I was a spiritual orphan. I’m certainly not perfect, but I’m no longer a lost soul, either."
This is exactly what makes me angry with what I call overly religious people. I know what I beleive, as do many others, but then you have people like Deace who think their religion is the only one that matters and they try to spew out that if don't believe what they do you will "irreparably damage your lives". B.S. there are plenty of people out there who don't need to turn to their particular beliefs to make decisions and they are perfectly fine people, contrary to what Deace preaches.
Exactly, therein lies the difference. This guy can be an activist for his religion of no God, and work to condemn those who disagree with his world view. If we are going have equal justice under the law, then neither should be restrained, or both. You can't have it both ways.
There are plenty who will argue - and I somewhat agree - that having a team chaplain is by default - bringing religion to the team.
I'm a 19 y/o kid, from an aethistic background. Now I have a football coach who has such a strong religous belief that he has a team chaplain in an office down the hall? That just naturally going to cause some mixed signals. And by default, you're not treating all equally as you've provided a service to the Christian players and not the others. Well, of course you are, you're just lumping them into the same faith.
Again, I'm of the opinion if you don't want it - don't participate. But it's absurd to think there isn't the possibility of alienating people by having a chaplain of a particular faith and not of others, on staff. IMO, this is just unnecessary - enlist the help of the local parishes, create a phone list. Hire a staff person.... ehhh....
This conversation would be 100% turned on it's ear if coach and/or this "chaplain" was of Muslim persuasion.
To be fair, I don't think there was ever any petition that ever named Gonzalaz specifically or was specifically aimed at getting his tenured denied. The petition you are referring to basically denounced intelligent design as science and said it should not be taught in the classroom if I recall correctly. I will willingly admit that it was a thinly veiled jab at Gonzalaz though.
Man the offseason is so boring. We even have to manufacture our own controversies. :Smoking:
Someone wake me up when fall practice starts...
Someone wake me up when fall practice starts...
If its that important to you and you are offended by having a team chaplain available, then maybe you don't go play for said coach.
Bottom line is that this debate is all just politics in action. My bet is that 99% of the football players just want to play football and this isn't even an issue to them.
Oh, I don't know. There's always those who just poke holes in arguements, regardless of what it is. :rolleyes5cz:
What I should've said was it would be turned on it's ear if coach and/or the "chaplain" where of a faith other than Christianity. Actually, there's enough of a divide within Christianity - I wonder what would be said in this thread if this were a privately funded Catholic priest?
No abortion, abstinence before marriage.....
Not to mention, there will always be those who support something just because it ISN'T supporting Christianity.
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Perhaps if the chaplain was Mormon. Perhaps the team should also hire someone to counsel those players who are struggling with a lack of faith? I bet Avalos would do it for cheap.
But now that rationale is exactly what the anti-chaplain camp would exploit. You just discriminated against a potential student-athlete at a public school.
Well that's a lock-tight guarantee - at least I hope. :wink0st:
The argument might be turned on its ear if the chaplain were Muslim but I don't think the reaction would be the same. From a Christian perspective, if I knew that Chizik were Muslim and someone was privately funding a Muslim chaplain to accompany the team, my first reaction would be to raise support/$ for a Christian chaplain to also be with the team. Instead, the opponents of this situation are calling for there to be no chaplain...that's why the opponents in this situation wreak of atheism.
Personally, I'm not sure this entire chaplain fiasco has much to do with the players or religion in the first place. It's more about recruiting in the South.
Many parents down South want to know that when their kid screws up there's a christian minister on call who can put the fear of god into the boy.
That's why I'm torn about the issue, because having a chaplain makes good football business sense and could potentially translate into wins. But when we start using the chaplain, there's a potential there for religious recruiting. And good christians can never pass up a chance to recruit to god's team.
Worse yet, what happens if there's negative recruiting because of it. Or this is used against the program - "ISU didn't offer me a scholarship because I don't read the bible". That kind of junk.
Of course I'm not saying this WOULD happen on OUR part. But we all know how ugly things can get, on the recruiting trail AND how spiteful the scorned could become.
Perhaps because most of society, their football coach, and the team chaplain say they should be Christian. Other than that, for the same reason anyone struggles with their religious beliefs.
Or the reverse could happen..."ISU provides me with an outlet to talk about my spirtuality while X school does not...I think I'll go there." I think it could go both ways.
Here is another hypothetical question: What if this position would get us better recruits which would guarantee us 1-2 additional wins per season?
Hey, don't get me wrong Like I said I'm not opposed to this whole chaplain thing at all! :wink0st: