Prof. Avila

I agree completely. As a Greenlee grad from ISU, I also have to say I always find Deace's writing skills to be marginal at best.

I wish he would take his moon face back to Ann Arbor and stop associating himself with ISU. He's not a Cyclone and never will be.
 
Its Avalos btw, not Avila. That said, that was one of the worst things I've ever read. It was nothing but strawmen and ad-hominem attacks. Does anyone actually still have respect for Deace? He is a more arrogant and less intelligent version of Rush.

Mega didos Deace :yes4lo:
 
Is that possible? :wink0st:


How is it that talk radio - political talk radio especially - is at such extreme ends of the political spectrum? A couple weeks ago, I was heading across the state and listen to Michael Savage for a little while (had to, it was like a train-wreak). That guy needs to be committed. Sean Hannity? Al Franken when he was still on? All the guys are about as far left or right as you can get.

And tweeners out there?
Extreme gets ratings. Middle of the road does not.
 
Does Deace see the irony of complaining that Avalos is "proselytizing to college students" while supporting the hiring of a chaplain by a man he refers to as a "father figure" and "mentor" to young men? Apparently proselytizing is ok as long as it's something that he agrees with. He takes shots at atheists, muslims, and other religions which is exactly why having a chaplain is a divisive thing.

I believe that ISU should have an environment that is open and accepting of all religious beliefs or lack thereof. People like Deace will attack others using the argument that their Christian beliefs are being assaulted while at the same time bashing everyone else's moral guide. That's great that Deace's "owner's manual" is the Bible but other people shouldn't have to use it as well if they don't want to.
 
Good article... only 1 single thing I disagree with:

I know what you’re thinking, cause it’s the same thing I was thinking when I first heard about this. You’re thinking, "Dude, why would an angry atheist (and is there any other kind) want to be teaching in the religious studies department?

Yes, there are other kinds of athiests. I am one, and I have no issues with this chaplain thing. I actually think it is a good idea... If these kids need some help, I am in favor of whoever it takes to help them.
 
I actually took a course with Dr. Avalos, I truly resepect this man, he is probably ISU's best teacher, as he has multiple awards to show for it. Do some research on him and you will see, he also has a rare breathing desorder, but let me tell you that the class i took w/ him was my favorite class that i took @ ISU. Deace is wrong to call him out, i'm not agreeing w/ Avalous but i respect his opinion a whole hell of a lot more the deace.
 
And to answer Deace's question as to why we have a atheist teaching religion i think is a simple answer. From taking the class w/ Dr. Avalos he didn't try to push atheist's beliefs on us, he just let us make up our own minds when analyzing the bible, i think having someone who is atheist teach religion is great, because if you have someone teaching religion how is a devout catholic or buddhist for example they would impose their beliefs upon you as a student whereas a atheist doesn't have those beliefs so it is up to you to form your own beliefs.
 
I don't see how an opinion with good grammar and structure is a horrible read. Now you many not agree with him or his opinion... but come on... a horrible read?! That seems narrow minded doesn't it?

It behooves you to read from minds that differ from your own. You might not agree with the what you read, but it will sharpen your mind along with your argument.

Deace is more about pop culture than anything else. You state that he should stick with sports ... well in my opinion he has more to offer than his outtake on sports (aside from his Christian beliefs). No pun intended, but Deace is well rounded in many things from his generation and knowledgeable in each.

While I believe you have fiery typing fingers and post before you process, I would enjoy reading your argument against Deace and this article.

- keep.

Hi Keep,
Deace is pompous when wearing his warrior-for-Jesus armour.
Deace is arrogant when gets in his "read the book and you will know the truth like I do," mode.
Deace is presumptious when he baits President Geoffrey the way he does in this editorial.
It's a horrible article, unless you are a march-in-lockstep Christian. Then you will find it a fine piece of writing. It isn't.
joe
 
Terrific article!

Instead of using tangible points for argument Deace went for the classic ad hoc and straw-man tactics. Why debate when you can simply debase a man’s character just because he doesn’t agree with you? Clearly since Dr. Avalos is an atheist he is also, a shambling idiot who hates Christians. Thank you Deace for astutely pointing out his flaws. It’s not like you have to know someone or talk to them to understand them; it can all be done from your arm chair. I’m sure if Jesus himself couldn’t have written anything as factual or precise. You have just earned yourself a crown in heaven Steve.
 
[Edit: I say below that Avalos was a priest. I'm pretty sure I was wrong about his affiliation with the Catholic church, although I'm still pretty sure he was in the ministry somehow.]

I should first say that I knew Avalos in undergrad and don't agree with him a lot of the time. I was often embarrassed that he was seen as the representative of my views in debates, because he was not all that good at them. That said, this article is crap.
Deace said:
Warning: what you are about to read would be considered highly offensive in several enclaves today, especially college campuses turned indoctrination centers like the religious studies department at Iowa State University. Those of you that pride yourselves on being more "tolerant" and more "enlightened" than you fellow upright vat of primordial ooze should stop reading now, or face the implosion of your frontal lobe. Those of you who lazily refuse to acknowledge anything could be more important than sports and spew bile every time someone brings up a non-sports subject should also stop reading for fear that someone might actually consider you a grown up for a change if you continue. The author doesn’t particularly care about either group, and even less about what they think, and he’s only warning them in order to save himself the trouble of banning them from our message boards and deleting their whiny emails. Everyone else – those of you best described as "normal" – should feel free to read on.
He starts with an unsupported assertion that the religious studies department is an "indoctrination center." Then he basically says that anyone who doesn't agree with him is whiny and not normal. Great start so far...
Deace said:
Who is Dr. Avalos? Dr. Avalos is the militant and activist atheist professor within ISU’s religious studies department. That’s right. ISU has a militant and activist atheist teaching in its religious studies department. Better yet, if you’re a taxpayer here in the state of Iowa you’re actually paying for it. Congratulations on participating in the fleecing of America.
An atheist cannot teach in the religious studies department why? It's a department that teaches about religions, not one that seeks to promote religion. So America is being fleeced because an atheist teaches religious studies... Nice meaningless catch phrase to finish the paragraph off.
I know what you’re thinking, cause it’s the same thing I was thinking when I first heard about this. You’re thinking, "Dude, why would an angry atheist (and is there any other kind) want to be teaching in the religious studies department? What interest in religion does he have if he doesn’t believe in God?"
Now all atheists are angry. Yet another pointless ad-hominem. If that doesn't give away his obvious and blind bias, I don't know what does. Someone cannot be interested in religion if they don't believe in God (note the capital G indicating THE God)? I find the philosophy surrounding religion quite intriguing myself. In Avalos's case he was once a priest who gave up the faith after more in depth biblical study. He is also an expert in the ancient languages of the bible. His qualifications to teach what he does are impeccable. I was well acquainted with one of the founders of Truth Bucket (an ISU organization that attempts to defend Christianity through reason) who took several classes from Avalos and had nothing but good things to say about his teaching ability.
Deace said:
Now, that’s an obvious question to have, especially if – like me – you’re from a little place we Earthlings like to call normal.
Yet another pointless jab at anyone who doesn't agree with him.
Deace said:
So go ahead and answer your own question. Why would an atheist, and an activist one at that, want to teach in the religious studies department? For the same reason a rooster wants into the hen house. It’s tempting to say that Dr. Avalos, considering what he says and writes outside the classroom, is using our tax money to proselytize atheism to college students. But I’m sure a Harvard grad is too smart to be caught doing so overtly, and that he instead uses sledgehammer-like subtlety to debunk and demagogue belief in God to what he views as gullible college students.
I'm willing to bet Deace doesn't know anything more about Avalos than what he reads in the paper. I doubt he has ever talked to him, seen him in the classroom, or even talked to any students that have taken a class from him. But its easier to just blindly impart motives on him...
Deace said:
Besides, the truth is that in today’s paganized and relativistic culture there is a taxpayer-subsidized Hector Avalos somewhere and to some degree on almost every college campus of consequence in the country. With sadly too very few exceptions nowadays they’re called the faculty.
Who do his religious views matter? There are plenty of activist Christians at colleges as well. Deace might as well just say what he appears to be thinking: We should have a religious test when hiring faculty.
Deace said:
See, Mr. Potter…err…I mean Mr. Avalos, is a man with a warped worldview living in a sad denial of reality. He is the embodiment of what St. Paul once said about educated scoffers: "While professing themselves to be wise they became utter fools." Mr. Avalos is trying to live his life contrary to what the owner’s manual says about how it works. He’s trying to suppress the truth about the owner’s manual, or even that there is an owner altogether. He wants his life to be all his own, to do with what he wants. He may desire that, but somewhere in the back of his mind he suspects he could be wrong, it’s just that his pride won’t let him admit it. His heart has been hardened. People in this condition have a tendency to get increasingly bitter and pretentious over time, and they try and take everyone down with them as they plunge into spiritual oblivion. I used to get mad at people like this…now I pity them.
Deace now just resorts to straight up preaching, working on the unsupported assumption that his faith is the correct one. He does this through much of the rest of the article and I don't plan to quote it all. He of course again attacks Avalos based solely on his atheist views.

Deace said:
Heck, they’ve even convinced an entire generation of Americans that the words "separation of church and state" are actually written in the Constitution. They’re not, but the Constitution does end with the words, "…in the year of our Lord."
This is about the closest thing to a decent argument in the whole article. Figured that deserved a quote.

Deace said:
But living out your Christian faith has a tendency to attract folks like Hector Avalos in this world, like a dog returns to its own vomit.
Another ad-hom.

Deace said:
Nevertheless, they sustain this charade that they’re their own God to the bitter end.
Just wanted to point out that I can make this exact same argument with regard to just about anything. Unsupported assertions are fun!

Deace said:
Coach Chizik understands that the only way to ultimately live a meaningful life, and there’s nothing a man craves more than a legacy, is to have a healthy relationship with the Maker. It’s when we don’t that we have a tendency to make bad decisions, the sorts of decisions that can irreparably damage our lives and the lives of those around us. I know that I am a far different father, husband, and man in the years since I got to know my Father than I was when I was a spiritual orphan. I’m certainly not perfect, but I’m no longer a lost soul, either.

That’s why Coach Chizik has helped to bring in and promote the "In the Zone" event coming to Ames on June 23rd, which he’ll be speaking at. It’s also why Coach Chizik wants a team chaplain to be a full-time staff position within the football program.
And now we see the true motivation for Deace, and supposedly Chizik as well, namely promoting Christianity to our football team. If this is the motivation for the chaplain then count me out.

Deace said:
Hector Avalos’ ignores his Maker, and instead worships the idols of science and reason. They can be useful tools that shouldn’t be dismissed, but all they can tell us about this life is how. They certainly can’t tell us why. Mr. Avalos doesn’t want to know why, because if he acknowledges the answer to why it will have repercussions for the choices he makes in his life right on down the line. And when you’re asphyxiating on pride you don’t even consider the why for a second.
Again, Deace doesn't have any information on which to base his groundless assertions. I would assume that someone who was once in the ministry has asked quite a few questions about their beliefs.

Deace said:
Some of these gutless tactics even made it into a recent sports column in the Des Moines Register. Why do I say gutless? Because they’re covering up their real motives. They don’t have the testicular fortitude to just come out and really say what they don’t like about it. So I’ll do it for them.

This isn’t about the separation of church and state, and this isn’t about tolerance. This is about one thing and one thing only—the separation of Christ and state.
B.S. It appears that way because Christianity is the most prominent religion and is thus the only one there are ever problems with. I assure you that if Chizik was hiring a rabbi to promote Judaism to the team people would be raising hell. Such situations just never occur.

Deace said:
That’s why Mr. Avalos and his same gang of 99 are trying to derail giving tenure to Guillermo Gonzalez, even though Professor Gonzalez doesn’t teach intelligent design in his ISU classes the way an atheist like Dr. Avalos teaches religion. Professor Gonzalez’ beliefs are not any different than Francis Collins’ are, and he’s the man that runs the human genome project, probably the most important scientific initiative of the age.

Would ISU deny tenure to Dr. Collins, who is a Christian that believes in theistic evolution (in other words, he believes that God steered the evolutionary process and it wasn’t random chance like Darwin asserted)? Is ISU suddenly too enlightened to give tenure to the head of the human genome project? I would think not, even though his views on the origin of life are essentially the same as Gonzalez’s. Except he doesn’t have a militant atheist religious studies professor stalking him the way Guillermo does.
Deace doesn't know any more about the reasons behind the denial of tenure than we do. There is a good indication that Gonzalez's research and grants did not meet expectations. Deace also equates Gonzalez and Collins by the use of only one criterion, their religious beliefs. I'm sorry, but if I believe the same thing about evolution as Dr. Collins that does not mean I am as good of a scientist as he is.


Deace's whole article was little more than preaching, attacks on Avalos, and incredibly poor reasoning.
 
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Its Avalos btw, not Avila. That said, that was one of the worst things I've ever read. It was nothing but strawmen and ad-hominem attacks. Does anyone actually still have respect for Deace? He is a more arrogant and less intelligent version of Rush.


spcm 110... nice work..
 
And to answer Deace's question as to why we have a atheist teaching religion i think is a simple answer. From taking the class w/ Dr. Avalos he didn't try to push atheist's beliefs on us, he just let us make up our own minds when analyzing the bible, i think having someone who is atheist teach religion is great, because if you have someone teaching religion how is a devout catholic or buddhist for example they would impose their beliefs upon you as a student whereas a atheist doesn't have those beliefs so it is up to you to form your own beliefs.

Dr. Avalos, as an atheist, definitely has beliefs. One of those beliefs is that he rejects the concept of supernatural powers or divine beings. And Dr. Avalos is rather vocal (perhaps not in the class you took) in his rejection of a divine being.

So, you have a man who rejects the concept of a divine being teaching you the Bible, a book which is based on belief in the existence of divine being. The question isn't whether or not Dr. Avalos' atheism affected his teaching of the Bible to your class, but rather, the question is, to what extent did his atheism affect his teaching of the Bible to your class.

Dr. Avalos worldview is based on atheism and the absence of divine beings. That worldview affects everything he does. He can't just "turn off" his atheism when it comes time to teach religion, anymore than you or I can "turn off" our worldviews when it comes to going about our daily activities.
 
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The question isn't whether or not Dr. Avalos' atheism affected his teaching of the Bible to your class, but rather, the question is, to what extent did his atheism affect his teaching of the Bible to your class.
Just making sure you realize that you can substitute Christianity or just about any other belief system for atheism in that sentence and it is just as valid.
 
Dr. Avalos, as an atheist, definitely has beliefs. One of those beliefs is that he rejects the concept of supernatural powers or divine beings. And Dr. Avalos is rather vocal (perhaps not in the class you took) in his rejection of a divine being.

So, you have a man who rejects the concept of a divine being teaching you the Bible, a book which is based on belief in the existence of divine being. The question isn't whether or not Dr. Avalos' atheism affected his teaching of the Bible to your class, but rather, the question is, to what extent did his atheism affect his teaching of the Bible to your class.

Dr. Avalos worldview is based on atheism and the absence of divine beings. That worldview affects everything he does. He can't just "turn off" his atheism when it comes time to teach religion, anymore than you or I can "turn off" our worldviews when it comes to going about our daily activities.

Couldn’t the same argument be made about Dr. Guillermo Gonzalez?
 
Coach Chizik understands that the only way to ultimately live a meaningful life, and there’s nothing a man craves more than a legacy, is to have a healthy relationship with the Maker.

Well I didn't read the article, but this quote is unbelievable. I've never heard rational Christians make such a wild assertion.
 
Just making sure you realize that you can substitute Christianity or just about any other belief system for atheism in that sentence and it is just as valid.

If I believed otherwise, I probably would have omitted the last sentence from my original post...
 
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Couldn’t the same argument be made about Dr. Guillermo Gonzalez?

I don't think the poster you quoted believes that Gonzalez was denied tenure based on his religious beliefs nor should he be. It sounds to me that there are plenty of reasons that he was denied tenure that have nothing to do with his religious beliefs.
 
Couldn’t the same argument be made about Dr. Guillermo Gonzalez?

The argument applies to all professors. Everbody teaches from the perspective of the worldview that governs their lives.

I don't recall Prof. Gonzalez spearheading petitions to get other profs denied tenure because of their beliefs.
 
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