***OFFICIAL BIG 12 EXPANSION THREAD 2.0***
- Thread starter Boxerdaddy
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This whole thing just got really interesting. The break up of the Big East is starting to really show where some of the back-alley handshakes and corruption lies (ESPN). Nobody could figure out why Cincy contined to drop millions into facilities and even coaches knowing that this impending doom was coming. It turns out all along that ESPN was given millions in incentives to set up their new offices (to carry their Catholic-centered bball) in Connecticut and in return offered UCONN a landing spot which really only left USF & Cincy in trouble, so all along had guaranteed Cincy a landing spot. And they've promised USF a landing spot too if they play nice and don't file a law suit over the breakup.
I'm betting this is the tipping point where congress gets involved.
I'm betting this is the tipping point where congress gets involved.
If Congress does get involved and blows the whole thing up, I'm glad the Big 12 is sitting at 10 instead of 14.
Of the teams that started out "BCS" football programs in all of this a couple years ago, the groups in danger were always Cincy/UConn/USF/Louisville (happening now) or ISU/KU/KSU/Baylor/TTech (avoided for now and KU/TTech were less at risk but still had no guaranteed home). It's not surprising Missouri had places to go even though they were in a bad position at one time. Only show in a populated state, they were set.
You could argue that Duke, WF, Louisville and Syracuse are in possible danger now too if the ACC gets raided and those are the four least desirable football/market combo adds in the ACC now that B1G already has Rutgers and PSU in Syracuse's region.
A FSU fan on the WVU Big 12 board (who has decent cred) posted that FSU sent feelers out to the SEC. My thought is that FSU only gets an SEC offer if the BIG first offers.
Also, I realize the SEC is ahead of the Big 12 in TV money, but with the redundancy of FSU to the SEC, would they make the same by joining the Big 12? Imo the SEC prefers the status quo of a weak ACC, and after that rather have FSU in the Big 12 over the BIG
Also, I realize the SEC is ahead of the Big 12 in TV money, but with the redundancy of FSU to the SEC, would they make the same by joining the Big 12? Imo the SEC prefers the status quo of a weak ACC, and after that rather have FSU in the Big 12 over the BIG
Actually, the SEC is not yet in front of the Big 12 in terms of TV money, but they will be soon when they get the bump for adding A&M and Mizzou and the SEC Network comes on line. I agree with their new network model that the SEC would prefer to add states, particularly NC and VA, but would also prefer that FSU is in the ACC or Big 12 over the B1G.
I personally feel that if the B12 doesn't strengthen itself with FSU and at least one or more teams from the ACC that it will not survive as a conference. It may take many years until the GOR expires or it may be quicker but either way if we don't expand we will die off IMO
You are not the only one to post this thought. There is a human tendency to fear the future and anything different than the past. IMO I do not see that there is any evidence that expansion will or will not be the demise of, or good for the Big 12. I could argue that by adding FSU and Miami we could well take power away from Texas and Oklahoma and feed their disatisfaction with our conference which would in turn lead them to joining the Pac 12. In that case how did expansion help?.
I am in no way saying that the Big 12 is in trouble. I am saying that the Big 12 is a business arrangement that will exist so long as the universities believe it is to their benefit to belong and receive tangible benefits from being a member of it. That could be for 13 years, that could be for several decades. It will definitely be so long as we compete with the other conferences and improve our lot. Do we compete better by having more members or by having an elite organization with a select few? Remember Neimann Marcus is successful just as well as Walmart and Target. Some people sip expensive champaign others drank Boones Farm. All you can definitely say about the future is that it is uncertain. Our success has far more to do with our attitude and desire to improve our lot than anything else. I see many of our member universities seizing the opportunity to take advantage of the profit avenues available. That is a good thing, and far more important for our future than what FSU or some other university does.
Fear of the future is natural. I think the following quote by Abraham Lincoln helps keep it in perspective,
"Always bear in mind that your own resolution to succeed is more important than any other. "
Abraham Lincoln
I guess my fear for the conference, is that you basically have only two marquee football schools (UT and OU) and one marquee basketball powerhouse (KU). Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying production on the field or court, as the past couple of seasons have proven for football and last year's tourney did for basketball.
I'm talking about traditional powerhouses. I guess I think that the B1G has tOSU, Mich, Penn State and Nebraska in football. The SEC is obvious.
I think we need some more cache to the conference and FSU and either Miami/Clemson/etc would bring that, and I think that would help solidify the conferences.
Texas cannot take the Longhorn Network anywhere else. Let them pout. **** 'em.
When the Big East dies, that will be the telling sign. If UConn, Cincy and USF get left out, the gov't will get involved, and at that point it might be better to be the B12. I guess we will see how it all plays out.
Maybe there will be some under the table stuff where individual congressmen and governors get involved, but our government cannot even pass a budget or figure out tax policy. They should probably stick to things that actually count in the scheme of things rather than getting involved in athletic conference matters.
These remaining 3 from the Big East is the lynchpin. If they keep the conference and go steal from others then status quo is fine. If they join the MAC, then UCONNs push will be served as a replacement for another ACC team in the same way that Louisville is a replacement for Maryland which will be used as fodder for reduced penalties from the $50 million.
It depends, if it is purely because a schools got left out I don't disagree. But if we are going to start questioning the motives of the non profit entities that are the athletic departments then the gov't should very much be involved. I am not saying I want them to get involved, but if all the sudden Cincy has to join the MAC then there are going to some really ****** off people that have something to do with the Cincy AD, and if all this jockeying is really about money and making more of it, then are the Athletic Departments really accomplishing their mission, or are they just trying to get rich.
I think a strong case can be made that many more student athletes would benefit from the old conferences, than of super conferences. And isn't that the point of the ADs to enrich the lives of the student athlete?
Everyone is caught up in expansion because expansion is the current mantra. Remember more teams do not mean everyone is Kumbaya and we all live happily ever after. More teams mean more mouths to feed and more egos to stroke. If cable ala cart ever happens the Big is in serious trouble. Talk about a pending cash shortage. Big egos like Michigan, Ohio State and Penn State will surely clash with the likes of Iowa and Indiana. Did Nebraska ever have any entitlement issues when they were part of the Big 12? This could all be the big bang theory in reverse. I think ISU and the Big 12 will be fine with or without expansion, and do not feel our success hinges on whether some ACC teams do a thumbs up to us. If need be we could do a double header with the PAC 12 after all of this gets sorted out if we have to. We are certainly not in a position where we have to do anything at this time.
good read on this from a philly paper. Id still be shocked if by 2014 when the B1G's tv contract is up that they don't have 2 more teams lined up since they are already having some AD's not liking the scheduling for 14. The SEC has said it doesn't work and the B1G is finding it out as well.
With or without the LHN, if the Big 12 gets into Florida in a major way like FSU or FSU/Miami, Big 12 Network needs to happen asap. If you're the main college sports conference in Texas and Florida with a handful of other states, that network is a valuable commodity even if it's all tier 3 or non UT content.
Even with a Big 12 network I think things like cyclones.tv are incredible for athletic depts going forward. It's great that our volleyball, wrestling, etc are available on it all over the world. I doubt BTN or any other conference network will ever give that kind of coverage to any individual team.
Combined populations of Big 12 states and Florida: 56.5 million
Combined populations of Big 10 states: 69.4 million
Roughly comparable. Let's say it's Florida State and Clemson, which seem to be the two most common schools named - the state of South Carolina would add 4.7 million more people (Big 12 total raised to 61.2 million). We wouldn't get the best deal we could if Texas wasn't included, but the content would still have some value.
These numbers aren't exact, and they don't include the big boost that the Big Ten will get from Maryland and Rutgers, either.
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