Law School

[Clone83]

Like others have said try to network some, make some contacts, and find out what lawyers do. If you are able to find something to do for a year, or a few years, before law school, that experience might also help in getting accepted.

And geography matters. If you thought you wanted to practice in Florida, for example, you may want to attend law school there. If you thought Iowa, then Iowa or Drake would make a lot of sense.

Coursewise, as an undergraduate, if you knew (for example) for sure you wanted to work in tax, you might want to major in accounting and become a CPA. That is also a major you might find work in (though I am clueless about the current job market). Even if you didn't work in tax, ultimately, accounting is good work experience if you become an attorney. It is one way you might earn a decent salary, help pay your way through school, and develop professional work habits. I believe I've seen an article within the last year that accounting will be one of the most in demand majors (as I recall, second after actuaries). And it doesn't have to be tax. Increasing government regulation is one thing driving this demand.

Economics is also a good major, something good for lawyers to know, in many or most fields an attorney might practice. It also helps you think systematically about things.

History, and particularly American history around the time of the founding, and British history then and awhile before that, will help in your law courses. Vocation wise, it is probably of greatest value if you worked, for example, in government or politics in some capacity. It is probably of little practical value to most positions you might take before attending law school (ask most liberal arts majors, I think). But it would involve a lot of reading, and writing, or developing skills that are useful in law school.

I know it doesn't sound like much fun, but if you didn't major in something like history, you might discuss with political science or history professors what kind of reading you might do on your own that would help you, say, in constitutional law. You don't have to know a lot of history to do well in law school, necessarily, but it helps put cases in context, and you won't have time once you are in law school. It would be a good thing if you had an interest and aptitude for learning about constitutional law, but even if you didn't, a good familiarity with American history can help better understand the cases, and case development, you are reading about in other areas of law.

 

[Clone83]

Well look at that, I finally found a topic that forced me to sign up for CF.

If you are considering law school, you really need to figure out what is important to you, and why you want to enter the legal profession in the first place.

. . . . .

Excellent post. I agree. It could otherwise be a pretty big waste of time and money, not to mention potential happiness. One thing is that it would be quite awhile before a college sophomore is interviewing for law jobs, so that could turn around in time, but it sounds pretty brutal right now.

 

[Clonefan32]

I also wouldn't look to closely at the fact the job market is tough right now. It is tough for all professions, and the chance of you finding a position is greater having a JD than having just a BS in Business or something of the sort. Sure you have generated more debt, but I still think in a business climate that is rough across the board it is never a bad thing to do something that will give you a leg up on the competition.

 

[tec71]

There's some great advice here. As a recovering lawyer who's graduated 13 years ago I would reinforce most all of it.

When it comes to school I would actually suggest that you stay away from traditional undergrad majors like poli sci, economics and english unless you are confident that you can top out the grade point. There's a lot more competition from those backgrounds. I was an electrical engineering major. As a white male from Iowa I always said that my EE degree was my diversity. My grades were decent but in another major the same gpa would never get me in. EE got me recognized where other thigns didn't. I also would second the thought that a good test score can do wonders.

The most important thing is to understand what the career options are for you. A law degree will make you better at whatever you choose to do, but it's sometimes hard to justify economically. Know the benefits and burdens of what you are interested in. The job market is decent in IP but it isn't what it used to be at the top of the tech boom. But there's also not a ton of IP work to be done in Iowa so you should be ready to move. That's not a bad thing but understand what you asking for. If you want to be a big city big firm you need to understand the grads that are going to be reuqired and be prepared to put in the time and effort to get those grades to the exclusion of lots of other stuff. It's a rare person who coasts to good grades.

I'm a recovering lawyer because while I carry the title and "practice" in house my primary duties are business related anymore. It's a great lead in to doing any number of things other than practicing law in a traditional setting, although as someone else said those jobs are not the easiest to find.

 

[Al_4_State]

I also wouldn't look to closely at the fact the job market is tough right now. It is tough for all professions, and the chance of you finding a position is greater having a JD than having just a BS in Business or something of the sort. Sure you have generated more debt, but I still think in a business climate that is rough across the board it is never a bad thing to do something that will give you a leg up on the competition.

Agreed. I've heard from a few people that if you have a JD going up against a BS in Business, JD wins, mostly on the fact that it shows a level of intelligence and work ethic that's above the norm.

At least, I hope to God that's true. If all else fails, I'm running off to Colombia and becoming the leader of a major drug cartel. I hear the money is good.

 

[Al_4_State]

Well look at that, I finally found a topic that forced me to sign up for CF.

If you are considering law school, you really need to figure out what is important to you, and why you want to enter the legal profession in the first place.

Some lawyers make excellent money. The most prestigious firms currently start associates at $160K + bonuses. There are many problems with this reality, however. The jobs that pay the most are typically big-business, and my understanding is that the work involved, especially in the first few years, can be mind-numbing. Additionally, these jobs are becoming increasingly hard to come by, particularly for those who decided to not go to Harvard, Yale, Berkeley, etc. The sad truth is that the higher ranked your school is, the easier time you will have getting your foot in the door when it comes time to find a job.

There are also a lot of low-paying jobs for lawyers, and oftentimes these are the most rewarding. If you are passionate about helping people in dire situations, and that is the reason you are entering the profession, don't expect to rake in the big bucks. This includes jobs entailing public interest and government work. Additionally, these jobs aren't exactly easy to come by either. Employers are growing increasingly wary of hiring 'Big Firm dropouts' (those who expected jobs that would pay a lot, didn't get them, and are now resorting to public interest even though they don't give a damn about the work).

Basically, what I'm trying to say is that law school is a bad move if you don't think you will be passionate about the law. As several people have already said, take as many classes from Dirk Deam as possible. You also need to realize that law school can truly wear down on your soul. The work is backbreaking, and competition is fierce. Because everything is graded on a true curve, there is no graded homework (with the exception of legal writing courses), and the only test is usually a final, it all comes down to how you can perform under pressure. Right now I'm trying to prepare for finals in Copyright, Patent Law, First Amendment law, and Securities Fraud, and I am incredibly cranky.

All-in-all, here's a checklist I would recommend completing before you choose to go to law school.

1) Are you prepared to take on $150,000+ of debt, and if so are you willing to risk the possibility that you end up with a job that only pays $40,000 a year?
2) If you are lucky enough to land a big-paying job, are you willing to work 60+ hour weeks performing work that can often be mind-numbing and thankless?
3) Are you passionate about the law (or as passionate as you can be before entering law school)?
4) Do you think you can succeed in an ultra-competetive environment?
5) Are you willing to make sacrifices (such as having to miss a good friend's wedding that conflicts with finals)?
6) Finally, what fields of law would you be interested in? As was already mentioned, IP law has a number of jobs availalbe. Constitutional law is fascinating, and what got me into law school in the first place, but jobs are hard to come by. Criminal law by its very nature is often considered a 'dirty' field (even though the issues that can come up are fascinating).

Anyway, that's the perspective of a current 2L who goes to a T-20 school in L.A. and who was fortunate enough to find a high-paying internship this summer in IP.

From my initial scanning, it looks like, at least in Iowa, the jobs in that price range might be eligible for loan forgiveness.

I'm the kind of person that didn't go to law school for the $, but rather because I love the subject, and really believe in helping the less fortunate, albeit as long as I can pay my bills and enjoy what free time I have. My hobbies and tastes aren't expensive, so I really don't need a huge paycheck as long as I enjoy my work and I'm paying the bills.

 

[cybookie4]

I have a brother at Iowa law school, pretty much build as many connections as possible and beef up your GPA, and make sure you start early on the LSAT it might be the hardest graduate school test to prepare for according to people ive heard from

 

[dpfische]

Here is some good information about graduates from the University of Iowa graduates before the downturn. The distribution curves that I have seen for lawyers is a somewhat bimodal distribution. The lawyers in the big cities for the big firms have the $120-$160 K starting salary, while there are a lot of entry employees around $60 K.

http://www.law.uiowa.edu/documents/cso_stats_2008.pdf

 

[04clone]

There's been lots of good advice in this thread, but I'll throw mine in as well.

1) Law school has little to nothing in common with politics or political science. In fact, Constitutional law is one of the driest classes you will ever take. Look up and attempt to read Marbury v. Madison....seriously.

2) I would highly recommend getting a job as a paralegal for 1-2 years prior to starting law school. Not many law students actually know what lawyers do. Find out prior to wasting 3 years and $200K. Most lawyers have extremely demanding jobs that require a lot of time alone researching, writing, and analyzing situations.

3) The LSAT is all that matters, and it can be mastered. The same types of questions show up time and time again. Start studying 4-6 months prior to taking the test and take every practice LSAT you can get your hands on.

4) Figure out where you want to practice prior to going to law school. If you aren't sure where you want to be, get a real job prior to going to law school to figure it out. If you want to stay in Iowa or Chicago/KC, you will not find a better deal than the U of I. If you want to live somewhere else, I would highly recommend going to law school in that area. Unless you are at the top 10% of the class, you probably aren't going to make it to the east coast from U of I, and certainly not from Drake.

5) Don't worry about law school rankings. Instead, chose a school that is a good deal and places well in your chosen area. I went to a top 20 law school, but left with way too much debt to do what I really want to do.

6) Everyone going to law school thinks they'll be in the top 10% of the class. Most law students are quite intelligent and motivated, so unless you're willing to spend 60-70 hours a week studying AND you have a knack for the law, you won't be in the top 10%.