Law School

Word of advice: save yourself the money and not take the kaplin prep course, just buy the books and study yourself

I found myself studyin more on my own and thought the class was expensive and pointless
 
If you want a job when you are done. Get an engineering degree. Work long enough to get your PE. Go to law school and specialize in intellectual property rights, patent, and copyrights. Same route will work with computer science without the PE. Route two would be to get a business degree and do a dual law and mba program. Plan on doing contract law. Route three would be private practice and starving.
 
Take lots of Economics. I think that will help you in the first semester (Contracts, Torts, Property @ University of Iowa) more than Political Science classes. Second semester law school (Criminal, Constitutional, Civil Procedure) is probably more related to Political Science. Really though, there is no secret to success. Work hard in undergrad, get good grades, and study and prepare enough for the LSAT's, and you will be fine. What schools are you interested in?

Right now i'm interested in Drake, possibly Iowa, Miami (fl), and Florida. But that could all change since i'm still two to three years away from making a decision.
 
my advice is the world doesn't need any more lawyers. All my friends that are lawyers hate themselves because they read contracts for 50 hours a week.
 
A couple books that might give you some ideas of what law school is like are Law School Confidential and Planet Law School. Both can be had very inexpensively off Amazon. Neither one are a fun read but I thumbed through both and found them enlightening.
 
Re: LSAT Preparation Recommendation

Take a course in Symbolic Logic & Semantics, usually offered in the Philosophy department. That is what I advise the pre-law students at U of I to take and they've universally told me it was the best preparation for the LSAT's.

I recommend this course because after taking it, I blew away the logic problems in the LSAT. Additionally, it's one of the most useful courses I've take EVER as it improved my reading comprehension as well as my writing. I would recommend this course regardless of whether a person intends to go to law school.
Very good advice. I believe my studies in philosophy were excellent preparation for the LSAT. Half of the LSAT is "logical reasoning" or something like that. It was very intuitive to me after studying philosophy.
 
my advice is the world doesn't need any more lawyers. All my friends that are lawyers hate themselves because they read contracts for 50 hours a week.
Also not bad advice. The lawyers who make a lot of money work long hours. New associates that make a lot of money work exceptionally long hours under rather high-pressure conditions.

Figure out what you want to do with your law degree before deciding to go to law school. Find someone who does that job and get their take on it. It also never hurts to take some time off after undergrad and do something else for a while.
If you want a job when you are done. Get an engineering degree. Work long enough to get your PE. Go to law school and specialize in intellectual property rights, patent, and copyrights. Same route will work with computer science without the PE. Route two would be to get a business degree and do a dual law and mba program. Plan on doing contract law. Route three would be private practice and starving.
The IP part is definitely right. That seems to be one of the few areas where people are finding jobs. Having a mba in addition to a law degree is no guarantee of a job right now though. There are boatloads of unemployed new law grads right now.
 
my advice is the world doesn't need any more lawyers. All my friends that are lawyers hate themselves because they read contracts for 50 hours a week.

You know attorneys that only work 50 hours a week? Are there any openings?

I agree that Waggonner was a good resource (10 years ago at least) and that IP law is a great way to make a living.
 
My Bad. I wasn't very clear. The MBA route is to get a job in business. The JD would help land a business type job and then you could work your way into contract law after you understood the business side of things. Also, it is a good backup until work as a lawyer can be found.

My best advice is to get a useful undergrad degree. The job market for lawyers is brutal right now. Anything to give yourself an edge or to fall back upon.
 
This thread had been a real pick-me-up for a 1L studying for finals...thanks everyone!
 
Take as many Poli Sci classes with Dirk Deam as you possibly can.

This, as far as Iowa State goes anyway. Apart from that, kill your LSATs obviously. My ex got straight A's at U of Iowa and her LSAT score kept her out of law school there. Ended up at Drake instead.
 
so do most schools admit based on mostly gpa and lsat, or does volunteer work, work experience, etc factor in quite a bit?
 
so do most schools admit based on mostly gpa and lsat, or does volunteer work, work experience, etc factor in quite a bit?

It depends. I was at the high end of Iowa's GPA range, and the low end of their LSAT range. They wrote on my acceptance letter that they took a particular liking to one of my work experiences.
 
I wish I'd have just gone to law school instead of grad school and then gotten into the same field I'm in now. No way I wanted or would want to be a lawyer, but it also opens up other doors, if you know what doors you even want opened! Going into the real world for a bit isn't a bad thing unless youre positive of your direction.
 
so do most schools admit based on mostly gpa and lsat, or does volunteer work, work experience, etc factor in quite a bit?

It's about 95% GPA and LSAT no matter what the schools tell you. Some schools favor GPA more and some schools favor LSAT more. You can get this information online sometimes. Iowa is definitely a school that favors the LSAT. These are really just tiebreaker factors. The only factor that is more than a tiebreaker is race. I don't want to get into a debate about the merits of AA, but it's the truth.

I'm also a 1L studying for finals right now. My advice is that if you can get into Iowa or higher than go to law school. But before I'd go to a school like Drake, I'd talk to some 3Ls and see what they advise. For every employed 3L like the one on this forum, there is bound to be someone with no job. In fact in the current economy it's probably more like 75%??? Just a guess but...

I go to a T15 school (one of the lower ones) and I know 3Ls without jobs. 50,000 more lawyers graduate every year than there are available jobs. Also, ignore the average salary numbers that schools put out to lure you in. They are total BS. Point is if you want to be a lawyer for the money and you can't get into a top school, the chances of you becoming rich from a being a lawyer is thin so pick a different profession.

Alright, back to studying. Contracts final tomorrow. [As to my advice for the person who started the thread, get a 3.8 in school and at least a 167. That should be enough to get you T14 or a full ride at Iowa. Also check out a forum called TopLawSchools for advice.]
 
1. Take Waggoner's class to see if you can hack it. I can't speak re Deam - I never had him.

2. Get the best grades you possibly can.

3. Score well on the LSAT.

4. Go to the best law school that you can get into. Iowa is very fortunate to have a top 25 law school for the price of in-state tuition. Region should play a role here. For example, if you want to practice in LA, it may be better to go to a lower-rated school in CA than a higher-rated school elsewhere. Alumni connections can be important in finding a job.
 
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It's about 95% GPA and LSAT no matter what the schools tell you. Some schools favor GPA more and some schools favor LSAT more. You can get this information online sometimes. Iowa is definitely a school that favors the LSAT. These are really just tiebreaker factors. The only factor that is more than a tiebreaker is race. I don't want to get into a debate about the merits of AA, but it's the truth.

I'm also a 1L studying for finals right now. My advice is that if you can get into Iowa or higher than go to law school. But before I'd go to a school like Drake, I'd talk to some 3Ls and see what they advise. For every employed 3L like the one on this forum, there is bound to be someone with no job. In fact in the current economy it's probably more like 75%??? Just a guess but...

I go to a T15 school (one of the lower ones) and I know 3Ls without jobs. 50,000 more lawyers graduate every year than there are available jobs. Also, ignore the average salary numbers that schools put out to lure you in. They are total BS. Point is if you want to be a lawyer for the money and you can't get into a top school, the chances of you becoming rich from a being a lawyer is thin so pick a different profession.

Alright, back to studying. Contracts final tomorrow. [As to my advice for the person who started the thread, get a 3.8 in school and at least a 167. That should be enough to get you T14 or a full ride at Iowa. Also check out a forum called TopLawSchools for advice.]

I think finals have made you a bit somber.

In all, I would say go for it. If you don't give it a chance, you'll probably always wish you did. In this market I would be somewhat hestitant to go to a lower ranked school, but I would say if you can get into anywhere in the top 50 to go for it.
 
Well look at that, I finally found a topic that forced me to sign up for CF. :P

If you are considering law school, you really need to figure out what is important to you, and why you want to enter the legal profession in the first place.

Some lawyers make excellent money. The most prestigious firms currently start associates at $160K + bonuses. There are many problems with this reality, however. The jobs that pay the most are typically big-business, and my understanding is that the work involved, especially in the first few years, can be mind-numbing. Additionally, these jobs are becoming increasingly hard to come by, particularly for those who decided to not go to Harvard, Yale, Berkeley, etc. The sad truth is that the higher ranked your school is, the easier time you will have getting your foot in the door when it comes time to find a job.

There are also a lot of low-paying jobs for lawyers, and oftentimes these are the most rewarding. If you are passionate about helping people in dire situations, and that is the reason you are entering the profession, don't expect to rake in the big bucks. This includes jobs entailing public interest and government work. Additionally, these jobs aren't exactly easy to come by either. Employers are growing increasingly wary of hiring 'Big Firm dropouts' (those who expected jobs that would pay a lot, didn't get them, and are now resorting to public interest even though they don't give a damn about the work).

Basically, what I'm trying to say is that law school is a bad move if you don't think you will be passionate about the law. As several people have already said, take as many classes from Dirk Deam as possible. You also need to realize that law school can truly wear down on your soul. The work is backbreaking, and competition is fierce. Because everything is graded on a true curve, there is no graded homework (with the exception of legal writing courses), and the only test is usually a final, it all comes down to how you can perform under pressure. Right now I'm trying to prepare for finals in Copyright, Patent Law, First Amendment law, and Securities Fraud, and I am incredibly cranky.

All-in-all, here's a checklist I would recommend completing before you choose to go to law school.

1) Are you prepared to take on $150,000+ of debt, and if so are you willing to risk the possibility that you end up with a job that only pays $40,000 a year?
2) If you are lucky enough to land a big-paying job, are you willing to work 60+ hour weeks performing work that can often be mind-numbing and thankless?
3) Are you passionate about the law (or as passionate as you can be before entering law school)?
4) Do you think you can succeed in an ultra-competetive environment?
5) Are you willing to make sacrifices (such as having to miss a good friend's wedding that conflicts with finals)?
6) Finally, what fields of law would you be interested in? As was already mentioned, IP law has a number of jobs availalbe. Constitutional law is fascinating, and what got me into law school in the first place, but jobs are hard to come by. Criminal law by its very nature is often considered a 'dirty' field (even though the issues that can come up are fascinating).

Anyway, that's the perspective of a current 2L who goes to a T-20 school in L.A. and who was fortunate enough to find a high-paying internship this summer in IP.
 

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