ISU Gambling Megathread

[Cyhig]

Why? Who was harmed?

So the only laws that should exist are in cases if someone was harmed. Interesting.

Well, I guess I could go drive drunk. If I get pulled over for simply swerving, I could go to court and say my case should be thrown out because I didn’t actually harm anyone or anything. In fact, the only time a crime has been committed is if someone was harmed physically or emotionally.

This is getting absurd. Why are you defending these players?

 

[06_CY]

Really hoping this idea of not following up on non-violent white collar crime grabs hold.

 

[Cyclonepride]

So the only laws that should exist are in cases if someone was harmed. Interesting.

Well, I guess I could go drive drunk. If I get pulled over for simply swerving, I could go to court and say my case should be thrown out because I didn’t actually harm anyone or anything. In fact, the only time a crime has been committed is if someone was harmed physically or emotionally.

This is getting absurd. Why are you defending these players?

Okay, who is endangered by lack of criminal enforcement? Still not defending the players, and never have been. That part is a figment of your imagination.

 

[isufbcurt]

So the only laws that should exist are in cases if someone was harmed. Interesting.

Well, I guess I could go drive drunk. If I get pulled over for simply swerving, I could go to court and say my case should be thrown out because I didn’t actually harm anyone or anything. In fact, the only time a crime has been committed is if someone was harmed physically or emotionally.

This is getting absurd. Why are you defending these players?

Some of us think that the "criminal" element of this is a waste of time and resources. Slap them with the $640 underage gambling fine and move on. We don't need a dog and pony show over something so trivial.

 

[Cyclonepride]

Really hoping this idea of not following up on non-violent white collar crime grabs hold.

Property crimes are a different matter (financial harm) than crimes that are merely the violation of some code that was dreamed up to control behavior that some people don't approve of.

 

[Cyhig]

Okay, who is endangered by lack of criminal enforcement? Still not defending the players, and never have been. That part is a figment of your imagination.

Why does it mattered if someone is endangered????

Is it illegal to gamble on sports if you are under 21 years old? Yes
Did some Iowa State players make sports bets while under the age of 21? Yes
Therefore, did some Iowa State players break the law? Yes
If you break the law, are you subject to fines or incarceration? Yes

Tell me where in those four questions does it state you only have to endanger someone to commit a crime

 

[3TrueFans]

Athletes betting on games that they play in could certainly cause financial harm

Okay, who is endangered by lack of criminal enforcement? Still not defending the players, and never have been. That part is a figment of your imagination.

So the players did do something wrong?

 

[1UNI2ISU]

Some of us think that the "criminal" element of this is a waste of time and resources. Slap them with the $640 underage gambling fine and move on. We don't need a dog and pony show over something so trivial.

But it wasn't just underage gambling. They intentionally concealed their identity and used other peoples names/SSNs to bet, there's a difference.

 

[Cyhig]

Some of us think that the "criminal" element of this is a waste of time and resources. Slap them with the $640 underage gambling fine and move on. We don't need a dog and pony show over something so trivial.

It doesn't matter though. It's still a crime. The players committed a crime. They will likely not play again.

Maybe they should make better decisions. And if people feel the DCI can allocate their time, money, and resources better, then talk to your local representatives. Even "trivial" cases still go to court. Welcome to the legal system

Edit: By the way, driving 20 mph over the speed limit is considered to be "criminal" speed. If cited, the driver would have to appear in court. Yes, even something so "trivial" as speeding requires a court case

 

[Cyclonepride]

Athletes betting on games that they play in could certainly cause financial harm

So the players did do something wrong?

They could cause financial harm if they were influencing the outcome of a game (which certainly does not appear to be the case here). Yes, they deserve to lose their eligibility.

 

[isufbcurt]

It doesn't matter though. It's still a crime. The players committed a crime. They will likely not play again.

Maybe they should make better decisions. And if people feel the DCI can allocate their time, money, and resources better, then talk to your local representatives. Even "trivial" cases still go to court. Welcome to the legal system

You keep mixing the NCAA part and the criminal part. I quit frankly don't care about the NCAA part and them being ineligible to play again, that's a given and I'm fine with that.

I think the criminal part is absurd and a waste of resources. Slap them with a fine and move on.

 

[3TrueFans]

They could cause financial harm if they were influencing the outcome of a game (which certainly does not appear to be the case here). Yes, they deserve to lose their eligibility.

So there is at the very least the potential for financial harm and that means DCI should investigate, correct or no?

 

[Cyclonepride]

Why does it mattered if someone is endangered????

Is it illegal to gamble on sports if you are under 21 years old? Yes
Did some Iowa State players make sports bets while under the age of 21? Yes
Therefore, did some Iowa State players break the law? Yes
If you break the law, are you subject to fines or incarceration? Yes

Tell me where in those four questions does it state you only have to endanger someone to commit a crime

There are thousands of laws on the books. I don't believe all of them are necessary, desirable or inviolable, though people are generally conditioned to treat them that way. Most are an unnecessary burden on society caused by mostly futile attempts to control everyone's behavior.

 

[Cyhig]

You keep mixing the NCAA part and the criminal part. I quit frankly don't care about the NCAA part and them being ineligible to play again, that's a given and I'm fine with that.

I think the criminal part is absurd and a waste of resources. Slap them with a fine and move on.

Not really. I understand there likely will be players who will be suspended by the NCAA for gambling even if they were of legal age. That means they didn't do anything criminally wrong; however, they broke the rules of the NCAA

Some of the players falsified who they were and gambled under age. That is a CRIME. You may not agree with the crime, but it doesn't change the fact that it is indeed still a crime. The criminal act will have to go through the legal procedure, including a court case. Like I said in my edited post, even driving at 20 mph over the speed limit is considered criminal speed and would require the driver to be seen in court

 

[Cyclonepride]

So there is at the very least the potential for financial harm and that means DCI should investigate, correct or no?

It should go like this: did they bet on games that they could influence? Is there evidence to suggest that they did influence that game? If the answer is no/no or yes/no, case closed.

 

[Cyhig]

It should go like this: did they bet on games that they could influence? Is there evidence to suggest that they did influence that game? If the answer is no/no or yes/no, case closed.

So it's only a criminal act if they are a player and they could directly influence the game. Attention all 15 year olds: you can now gamble on anything! No punishments to you or to the casino!!!

 

[3TrueFans]

It should go like this: did they bet on games that they could influence? Is there evidence to suggest that they did influence that game? If the answer is no/no or yes/no, case closed.

Well at least we only took 4 hours to finally get to the point where you agree that DCI should have investigated, that's progress. DCI probably has to go by the laws that are on the books and not just make them up though?

 

[isufbcurt]

Not really. I understand there likely will be players who will be suspended by the NCAA for gambling even if they were of legal age. That means they didn't do anything criminally wrong; however, they broke the rules of the NCAA

Some of the players falsified who they were and gambled under age. That is a CRIME. You may not agree with the crime, but it doesn't change the fact that it is indeed still a crime. The criminal act will have to go through the legal procedure, including a court case. Like I said in my edited post, even driving at 20 mph over the speed limit is considered criminal speed and would require the driver to be seen in court

Not always, the officer has discretion. Just like when I ran a stop sign, I fed the officer a bunch of BS on why I missed it and he let me off. I guess you could charge me with "tampering" since I knowingly lied to him in order to not get a ticket.

The Prosecutor has discretion and he feels he needs a dog and pony show over something trivial.

 

[Rabbuk]

But it wasn't just underage gambling. They intentionally concealed their identity and used other peoples names/SSNs to bet, there's a difference.

It's like ******* groundhog day in here.

 

[Cyhig]

Not always, the officer has discretion. Just like when I ran a stop sign, I fed the officer a bunch of BS on why I missed it and he let me off. I guess you could charge me with "tampering" since I knowingly lied to him in order to not get a ticket.

The Prosecutor has discretion and he feels he needs a dog and pony show over something trivial.

Yes, determining if the speed is criminal is at the discretion of the officer. But if the officer cites the driver for a criminal amount of speed, the driver is required to go to court. Even if you feel such a thing is "trivial," it still has to go through the legal process.