Grading ISU Conference Performances

[davegilbertson]

Starting this discussion after 6 games. ISU has won home contests by: 15, 34 and 11 respectively and in road contests won by: 3, 2 and lost by: 2 respectively.

Amazing start that I don't think any of us saw coming. The crazy part? I don't know how many of these games were/are this teams A1 performance

A	Texas Tech H
A-
B+	Baylor H Texas H
B	Oklahoma A TCU A
B-	Kansas A
C+

I could make arguments on all of them, but in short, this squad has played really well, but only rarely reached full potential.

This with still emerging roles and minutes getting balanced with addition of King, Watson and Ward, Osun's new found production and with Jaz being hurt.

Was going to put my rationale for grades, but it's mostly gut/eye test. No idea if advanced stats would agree with my assessment. Curious to know either way.

Where would you rank ISU performances thus far?

 

[Cyclonepride]

Only game that wouldn’t be in the A category for me would be @OU, and I’d give that a B+

 

[packattack425]

There are only two grades that matter. W and L.

 

[jsb]

Starting this discussion after 6 games. ISU has won home contests by: 15, 34 and 11 respectively and in road contests won by: 3, 2 and lost by: 2 respectively.

Amazing start that I don't think any of us saw coming. The crazy part? I don't know how many of these games were/are this teams A1 performance

A	Texas Tech H
A-
B+	Baylor H Texas H
B	Oklahoma A TCU A
B-	Kansas A
C+

I could make arguments on all of them, but in short, this squad has played really well, but only rarely reached full potential.

This with still emerging roles and minutes getting balanced with addition of King, Watson and Ward, Osun's new found production and with Jaz being hurt.

Was going to put my rationale for grades, but it's mostly gut/eye test. No idea if advanced stats would agree with my assessment. Curious to know either way.

Where would you rank ISU performances thus far?

I don’t know. I think they’ve played really well and while not perfect, I’m not sure they could play that much better.

 

[Statefan10]

I don’t know. I think they’ve played really well and while not perfect, I’m not sure they could play that much better.

For sure. Idk if you can get too critical overall in this conference when you win a game. You just gotta move on to the next.

 

[twincyties]

I don’t say this to be critical, but because I think we still haven’t hit our ceiling. A- all the way around.

 

[Dale]

No idea if advanced stats would agree with my assessment. Curious to know either way.

If we look at Bart Torvik's Game Score (which goes from 0 to 100) and assign school letter grades based on that (e.g. 90-100 is an A of some type):

A+: Tech
A: Baylor, @OU, @TCU, Texas
A-: @KU

Seems about right to me. Selected non-conference games:

A: St. John's
B: North Carolina
B-: Villanova
F: UConn
F-: Iowa

 

[CyPunch]

Tech. A+

Baylor, @TCU, Texas. A

Oklahoma was kind of a weird game. Lipsey played really well and Grill getting hot was enough to win the game but I might give that a B+.

KU we didn't play that well but still had a shot at the end (great sign). B-.

 

[davegilbertson]

I don’t say this to be critical, but because I think we still haven’t hit our ceiling. A- all the way around.

This is where I'm coming from. Shoon just coming on, still seem like there's more we can get from some of our role contributors.

Very good signs all around.

 

[WastedTalent]

I know there's way more to this team than just shooting, but the pessimistic part of me still thinks it boils down to Gabe and Grill's 3pt shooting. In Big 12 games Gabe is 46% and Grill is 43%. Last year in conference games (full 18 games) Grill was 32%, Gabe 26%, and Brockington 36%.

So the question is likely to come, if Gabe and Grill aren't making their 3s, can the team still find ways to win? The only conference game so far that they both had bad shooting games was @TCU. And of course Gabe hits the game winning 3.

 

[davegilbertson]

I know there's way more to this team than just shooting, but the pessimistic part of me still thinks it boils down to Gabe and Grill's 3pt shooting. In Big 12 games Gabe is 46% and Grill is 43%. Last year in conference games (full 18 games) Grill was 32%, Gabe 26%, and Brockington 36%.

So the question is likely to come, if Gabe and Grill aren't making their 3s, can the team still find ways to win? The only conference game so far that they both had bad shooting games was @TCU. And of course Gabe hits the game winning 3.

On these nights^ this is where I think team needs to shift to two man gane with Holmes/Lipsey and Osun and work from there. Could also be nights where rotations work King in a bit more as well.

Thing is, Grill and Gabe are still both valuable and necessary to be on court.

Tough to imagine ISU surviving a 1-16 3pt night from those to, but could possibly squeak by a 1-7 collectively from them, just need more from others.

 

[Statefan10]

I know there's way more to this team than just shooting, but the pessimistic part of me still thinks it boils down to Gabe and Grill's 3pt shooting. In Big 12 games Gabe is 46% and Grill is 43%. Last year in conference games (full 18 games) Grill was 32%, Gabe 26%, and Brockington 36%.

So the question is likely to come, if Gabe and Grill aren't making their 3s, can the team still find ways to win? The only conference game so far that they both had bad shooting games was @TCU. And of course Gabe hits the game winning 3.

You're not completely wrong, but think about the quality of looks we're getting this year from essentially everyone because of the talent we added and the offense we run compared to last year. Lipsey and Jaren are much better floor generals than Hunter and Brockington and Shoon is a MAJOR upgrade over Conditt. So within our offense we're seeing Gabe, Grill and even Jaren take and make much easier shots than we did last year. It's that, and Grill and Gabe have flat out put in the time. Sure they're shooting great in conference play but overall Gabe is 35%, Grill is 38%, and Jaren is 37%.

Think of how many bad three point shots Hunter, Grill, Gabe, and Brockington took last year. So many one on one iso's and late prayer attempts. It seems like this year, (outside of obviously a few here and there) our 3 point attempts are coming from within the offense.

 

[CoachHines3]

There are only two grades that matter. W and L.

i didnt get any w's in high school

just L's

 

[twincyties]

You're not completely wrong, but think about the quality of looks we're getting this year from essentially everyone because of the talent we added and the offense we run compared to last year. Lipsey and Jaren are much better floor generals than Hunter and Brockington and Shoon is a MAJOR upgrade over Conditt. So within our offense we're seeing Gabe, Grill and even Jaren take and make much easier shots than we did last year. It's that, and Grill and Gabe have flat out put in the time. Sure they're shooting great in conference play but overall Gabe is 35%, Grill is 38%, and Jaren is 37%.

Think of how many bad three point shots Hunter, Grill, Gabe, and Brockington took last year. So many one on one iso's and late prayer attempts. It seems like this year, (outside of obviously a few here and there) our 3 point attempts are coming from within the offense.

Agree with this 100%. I don’t care if you’re Steph Curry - when the ball sticks so badly and you’re imitating offense from 30 feet with 8 seconds left on the shot clock no one on your team is going to shoot a high percentage.

To me, this is biggest difference from last year.

As noted above, I think this is where Holmes ability to drive and finish comes into play. As does Shoon from the high post like we’ve seen last couple of games.

There are going to be nights where we’re cold. It’s going to happen. But if we can get decent looks elsewhere and play defense the way we do we’re going to stay in these games.

Offense rebounding lately has also been overlooked. This is ultimately about points per possession at the end of the day and not just shooting percentage. So this matters a lot. We’re averaging 12 a game in big 12 play. Had 17 against Tech which is one of many reasons we absolutely killed them.

 

[Statefan10]

Agree with this 100%. I don’t care if you’re Steph Curry - when the ball sticks so badly and you’re imitating offense from 30 feet with 8 seconds left on the shot clock no one on your team is going to shoot a high percentage.

To me, this is biggest difference from last year.

As noted above, I think this is where Holmes ability to drive and finish comes into play. As does Shoon from the high post like we’ve seen last couple of games.

There are going to be nights where we’re cold. It’s going to happen. But if we can get decent looks elsewhere and play defense the way we do we’re going to stay in these games.

Offense rebounding lately has also been overlooked. This is ultimately about points per possession at the end of the day and not just shooting percentage. So this matters a lot.

I was absolutely blown away by the fact that we're the best rebounding team in the Big 12.

 

[WastedTalent]

Sure they're shooting great in conference play but overall Gabe is 35%, Grill is 38%, and Jaren is 37%.

Think of how many bad three point shots Hunter, Grill, Gabe, and Brockington took last year. So many one on one iso's and late prayer attempts. It seems like this year, (outside of obviously a few here and there) our 3 point attempts are coming from within the offense.

That's why I was saying pessimistic me thinks there's going to be a regression at some point. And maybe it comes in one game, and hopefully not over a stretch of games.

I absolutely agree, this year's attempts are much higher quality, and I don't see that changing.

 

[flycy]

Tech P
Baylor P
OU P
TCU P
Texas P
KU F

 

[Malone]

Haslametrics is great for this.

 

[Rural]

Agree with this 100%. I don’t care if you’re Steph Curry - when the ball sticks so badly and you’re imitating offense from 30 feet with 8 seconds left on the shot clock no one on your team is going to shoot a high percentage.

To me, this is biggest difference from last year.

As noted above, I think this is where Holmes ability to drive and finish comes into play. As does Shoon from the high post like we’ve seen last couple of games.

There are going to be nights where we’re cold. It’s going to happen. But if we can get decent looks elsewhere and play defense the way we do we’re going to stay in these games.

Offense rebounding lately has also been overlooked. This is ultimately about points per possession at the end of the day and not just shooting percentage. So this matters a lot. We’re averaging 12 a game in big 12 play. Had 17 against Tech which is one of many reasons we absolutely killed them.

Last year (when I could see games btw) we spent a lot of time on offense "stuck".

That will never lead to offensive rebounding chances.

This year's personnel is just way better for getting second chances as well.

 

[Cyclonepride]

Tech. A+

Baylor, @TCU, Texas. A

Oklahoma was kind of a weird game. Lipsey played really well and Grill getting hot was enough to win the game but I might give that a B+.

KU we didn't play that well but still had a shot at the end (great sign). B-.

I wonder how many teams have allowed 20-0 runs on the road and still ended up winning? Can't be that many.