Exactly. Georges did a lot of both throughout his entire career. Calling him a perimeter player is dumb though.
Garza Vs Niang
- Thread starter CloneinWDSM
- Start date
I'd call Ejim a wing player who did a lot of rebounding and scoring at the rim because he had to and he just played incredibly hard. He was never actually a power forward and definitely not a center.
Georges was a true polished scorer in the paint in half court offense when he arrived. He didn't have to develop it. He wasn't the biggest or most athletic, but for four years there wasn't a player with better low post offense skills in the conference.
His role with the Jazz is to shoot 3s off the bench, but even with the Jazz on occasion he will post up and the announcers will have to mention that he has those skills. He plays a different role now than he did at ISU. He's also changed his body for that role.
Weird hypothetical, but if Niang couldn't shoot 3s well he still would have been an all time great Cyclone if all he'd done was post scoring. This guy must not have watched Georges at ISU.
In my opinion Luka's true shooting % is the most impressive thing. He scores high % inside and supplements it with high % perimeter shooting. He's going to take over 300 3s and make a very high % of them. In comparison Georges took 500 3s in more minutes played. Their 3 point attempts per minute played aren't that different.
This guy could make dozens of better arguments than the ones he's making.
Niang scored a ton around the basket, but most of the time those started as face up to the basket situation where he drove, or got garbage points off rebound etc. I think you guys are confusing what I am saying, Niang obviously scored and scored well around the basket, but in different ways than just traditional posts stuff like Garza does. Watch the beginning of the ISU vs Kansas game in 2013. This is how I remember Fred's offense. It was 5 guys on the perimeter, screening, shooting and driving. I didn't see Niang post up once in the first 10 possessions. Garza will post up 90% of possession, they aren't close to being similar in any manner or fashion.
I apologize for posting videos of good ISU basketball, as Prohmball is now the new normal at ISU. RIP Hoiball.
There is no real debate here. Both players are vastly different. Both played in different eras.
Niang played in a much tougher basketball environment and he excelled at everything.... all 4 years. He also played far superior competition annually.
Garza is a less versatile player and uses his body to his advantage. Will he get college player of the year? Likely. Will he get drafted in the lottery or later 1st round? No. That is all you need to know about today's college basketball climate.
Niang wins this "Debate."
Niang played in a much tougher basketball environment and he excelled at everything.... all 4 years. He also played far superior competition annually.
Garza is a less versatile player and uses his body to his advantage. Will he get college player of the year? Likely. Will he get drafted in the lottery or later 1st round? No. That is all you need to know about today's college basketball climate.
Niang wins this "Debate."
Niang was often a post player. As a freshman he would come off the bench and exclusively close out games in the paint on offense.
Nobody ever claimed he was an 1970s NBA back to the basket center like Luka. You dreamt that up.
Luka's 3pt attempts per minute aren't that different than Niang's.
It's also true that big slow players are going to get doubled much more than bigs with point guard skills or quick feet. Some is because Luka is good and some is because he's not Hakeem or Jokic burning teams that double him with foot speed or passing brilliance respectively.
So you do agree that Luka gets doubled much more, that is good.
They are just different players. Garza can't do what Niang did driving to the basket, and Niang couldn't play the traditional post position and face double teams all the time like Luka does. Both are/were great college players, and as I said right away Hawk fans will say Luka and Clone fans Niang, there is nothing wrong with that.
Part of why Garza gets double teamed a lot is because he is good and part of it is because he can't always burn teams for the double team because of his limited ability to put the ball on the floor and pass.
You honestly think throwing 2 or 3 guys at a playmaker like Niang or Jokic is less risky than a player like Garza? Do you think Garza would get double teamed as much if he had Hakeem's foot speed?
It's part of the argument. Like I said, even Shaq wouldn't get double teamed if he could have passed and handled the ball like the best passing and dribbling big men. Teams double Luka in part because that's a weakness in an otherwise dominant game. It also has something to do with JW often being the only elite athlete they'd need to worry about leaving to double, maybe Murray.
We probably aren't that far off now that you dropped niang being a perimeter player. Perimeter players don't match up head to head with Embiid.
This whole thread reminds me of the debate between the 2 fan bases from 20 years ago. Who has the better player Brad Banks that won the awards and the team finished 11-2 or Seneca Wallace who never won any season ending national awards but had a 10 year career in the NFL.
It tends to come down to which player the team was on and if you are a fan of that team. Garza has had a monster year, repeating what he did last year, and should be player of the year. But comparing his game, to the highlights of Niang, its easy to see why one is playing in the NBA, while the other will be lucky to get anything close to a shot. Watching Graza off and on these past four years, I have yet to see him one time, get the ball out beyond the arch and then take it to the hoop. Don't get me wrong, he is a unbelievable low post presents, and a hard rebounder. But his skill set doesn't translate to the modern NBA.
If it was me, I would much rather have Niang's career than Garza's at this time.
It tends to come down to which player the team was on and if you are a fan of that team. Garza has had a monster year, repeating what he did last year, and should be player of the year. But comparing his game, to the highlights of Niang, its easy to see why one is playing in the NBA, while the other will be lucky to get anything close to a shot. Watching Graza off and on these past four years, I have yet to see him one time, get the ball out beyond the arch and then take it to the hoop. Don't get me wrong, he is a unbelievable low post presents, and a hard rebounder. But his skill set doesn't translate to the modern NBA.
If it was me, I would much rather have Niang's career than Garza's at this time.
If I could only put one of them on a team it’s Niang every time. An absolute elite closer.
If someone tried to make a Niang v Doug McBuckets argument it’d be shot down by 99% of the people in here. The arguments in favor of Garza are the same IMO.
If someone tried to make a Niang v Doug McBuckets argument it’d be shot down by 99% of the people in here. The arguments in favor of Garza are the same IMO.
Niang must have seen this thread and got offended so he decided to score more points tonight than Garza will in his entire NBA career
I agree with all this. All the blue bloods are down and whether we hate to admit it or not college basketball is not better for it.
| Season | School | Conf | G | GS | MP | FG | FGA | FG% | 2P | 2PA | 2P% | 3P | 3PA | 3P% | FT | FTA | FT% | ORB | DRB | TRB | AST | STL | BLK | TOV | PF | PTS | SOS | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 2012-13 | Iowa State | Big 12 | 35 | 23 | 25.1 | 4.5 | 8.7 | .515 | 3.4 | 5.9 | .572 | 1.1 | 2.8 | .392 | 2.0 | 2.9 | .700 | 1.3 | 3.2 | 4.6 | 1.8 | 0.7 | 0.2 | 1.5 | 3.0 | 12.1 | 6.13 | |
| 2013-14 | Iowa State | Big 12 | 34 | 34 | 30.1 | 6.5 | 13.8 | .474 | 5.1 | 9.4 | .542 | 1.4 | 4.3 | .327 | 2.2 | 3.1 | .721 | 1.0 | 3.5 | 4.5 | 3.6 | 0.6 | 0.6 | 2.4 | 3.2 | 16.7 | 9.88 | |
| 2014-15 | Iowa State | Big 12 | 34 | 34 | 30.7 | 5.5 | 11.9 | .461 | 4.1 | 8.6 | .485 | 1.4 | 3.4 | .400 | 3.0 | 3.7 | .808 | 1.0 | 4.4 | 5.4 | 3.4 | 0.5 | 0.5 | 2.7 | 2.8 | 15.3 | 9.15 | |
| 2015-16 | Iowa State | Big 12 | 35 | 35 | 33.2 | 8.1 | 14.8 | .546 | 6.5 | 10.7 | .605 | 1.6 | 4.1 | .392 | 2.7 | 3.4 | .807 | 1.3 | 4.9 | 6.2 | 3.3 | 0.9 | 0.6 | 2.6 | 3.2 | 20.5 | 10.16 | |
| Career | Iowa State | 138 | 126 | 29.8 | 6.2 | 12.3 | .500 | 4.8 | 8.7 | .553 | 1.4 | 3.6 | .375 | 2.5 | 3.2 | .763 | 1.2 | 4.0 | 5.2 | 3.1 | 0.7 | 0.5 | 2.3 | 3.1 | 16.1 | 8.83 |
| Season | School | Conf | G | GS | MP | FG | FGA | FG% | 2P | 2PA | 2P% | 3P | 3PA | 3P% | FT | FTA | FT% | ORB | DRB | TRB | AST | STL | BLK | TOV | PF | PTS | SOS | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 2017-18 | Iowa | Big Ten | 33 | 26 | 21.7 | 4.4 | 7.9 | .557 | 3.9 | 6.5 | .602 | 0.5 | 1.4 | .348 | 2.8 | 4.1 | .681 | 2.4 | 4.0 | 6.4 | 1.1 | 0.3 | 1.0 | 1.1 | 2.4 | 12.1 | 7.13 | |
| 2018-19 | Iowa | Big Ten | 32 | 30 | 23.7 | 4.9 | 9.2 | .531 | 4.2 | 6.9 | .608 | 0.7 | 2.3 | .292 | 2.7 | 3.3 | .804 | 1.8 | 2.7 | 4.5 | 0.9 | 0.3 | 0.5 | 1.3 | 2.3 | 13.1 | 9.84 | |
| 2019-20 | Iowa | Big Ten | 31 | 31 | 32.0 | 9.3 | 17.1 | .542 | 8.0 | 13.6 | .589 | 1.3 | 3.5 | .358 | 4.1 | 6.3 | .651 | 3.6 | 6.3 | 9.8 | 1.2 | 0.8 | 1.8 | 1.8 | 2.5 | 23.9 | 10.62 | |
| 2020-21 | Iowa | Big Ten | 23 | 23 | 30.5 | 9.1 | 16.3 | .560 | 7.7 | 13.2 | .587 | 1.4 | 3.1 | .444 | 5.0 | 7.1 | .701 | 2.9 | 5.7 | 8.5 | 1.8 | 0.4 | 1.6 | 1.5 | 2.2 | 24.7 | 10.25 | |
| Career | Iowa | 119 | 110 | 26.6 | 6.7 | 12.3 | .547 | 5.8 | 9.8 | .595 | 0.9 | 2.5 | .361 | 3.5 | 5.1 | .699 | 2.6 | 4.5 | 7.2 | 1.2 | 0.5 | 1.2 | 1.4 | 2.4 | 17.9 | 9.4 |
Niang went 7/7 from deep last night.
He used to be so good at driving but now relies heavily on the 3. In college I would say on some of his close range shots “no one can stop that”. Why don’t we see that in the NBA?
He used to be so good at driving but now relies heavily on the 3. In college I would say on some of his close range shots “no one can stop that”. Why don’t we see that in the NBA?
Kinda the same reason you won't see Garza using the patented hook move in the NBA.
He is good. So much of what they do offensively would not work without him. All those open 3's and assists they rack up...yeah, people will find out next year how important he was, if they don't know already.