They are annoying but it's ultimately good for the Athletic Dept to have a fanbase that goes beyond just alumni. Enhances the brand.
Garza Vs Niang
- Thread starter CloneinWDSM
- Start date
Didn't help that he was carrying around a benign cyst the size of a cantaloupe in his abdomen. He still averaged 12 and 6 his freshman year.
Lookin at their stats, it's actually closer than I originally thought. Garza doesn't have as big a rebounding advantage as I remembered, and Niang has way more assists than I remembered. They will be very close in total point scored, although Garza was hampered with playing less games this season. Niang was better early is their careers, Garza is better as a Junior Senior. I'd still give a slight edge to Garza for overall career with the awards he's about to win. National player of the year counts for a lot, in my book.
www.sports-reference.com
www.sports-reference.com
Luka Garza College Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com
Luka Garza - Stats, Game Logs, Splits, and much more
www.sports-reference.com
Georges Niang College Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com
Georges Niang - Stats, Game Logs, Splits, and much more
www.sports-reference.com
Different positions so it is really hard to judge. Of course Clone fans will say Niang and Hawk fans Garza. Here would be my case for Garza:
-In his Jr and Sr. season Garza impacts a game in a way Niang never did. Niang didn't have defenses double and triple team him everytime he touched the ball.
-Even though he gets double and triple teamed Garza is a much more prolific and efficient scorer
-Neither is/was a plus defender, so defense doesn't really enter the equation
-Garza played an entire season with a huge cyst on his abdomen, and then played an entire season recovering from recent surgery removing that cyst.
-In his Jr and Sr. season Garza impacts a game in a way Niang never did. Niang didn't have defenses double and triple team him everytime he touched the ball.
-Even though he gets double and triple teamed Garza is a much more prolific and efficient scorer
-Neither is/was a plus defender, so defense doesn't really enter the equation
-Garza played an entire season with a huge cyst on his abdomen, and then played an entire season recovering from recent surgery removing that cyst.
Lookin at their stats, it's actually closer than I originally thought. Garza doesn't have as big a rebounding advantage as I remembered, and Niang has way more assists than I remembered. They will be very close in total point scored, although Garza was hampered with playing less games this season. Niang was better early is their careers, Garza is better as a Junior Senior. I'd still give a slight edge to Garza for overall career with the awards he's about to win. National player of the year counts for a lot, in my book.
Luka Garza College Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com
Luka Garza - Stats, Game Logs, Splits, and much moreGeorges Niang College Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com
Georges Niang - Stats, Game Logs, Splits, and much more
Very different position but add in:
LG:
Minutes: 3166
Points: 2126
Rebounds: 856
Assists: 141
Blocks: 140 (actually extremely low for his size, position and minutes)
Steals: 57
Turnovers: 168 (impressive for how much he has the ball)
Win Shares: 17.9
PER: 30.4 (2nd all time Big Ten since 1990 when started)
True Shooting %: 61%
Points Produced: 1879
Usage %: 29.4
GN:
Minutes: 4110
Points: 2228
Rebounds: 714
Assists: 421
Blocks: 67
Steals: 92
Turnovers: 318
Win Shares: 16.5
PER: 21.5
True Shooting %: 58%
Points Produced: 2129
Usage %: 26.9
MM:
Minutes: 4734
Points: 1708
Rebounds: 516 (not really a knock that he's way smaller and not far behind in rebounding)
Assists: 768
Blocks: 41
Steals: 225
Turnovers: 165
Win Shares: 20.8 (all time Big 12 leader)
PER: 20.5
True Shooting %: 57%
Points Produced: 1958
Usage %: 17.7
Best in Green, worst in Red.
***want to note that these are ridiculously awesome #s for all three. Not saying anybody sucks. Predictably MM and Luka lead most with Georges 2nd in many.
I gave points to Luka even though I think there's about a 10% chance he doesn't catch Georges. (meaning they flame out in postseason only playing 2-3 games)
Points produced is probably the most subjective of the five advanced stats I used.
Minutes is subjective, it could be looked at like someone produced a lot in less minutes...or it can be looked at like a kid was so good as a freshman they couldn't keep him off the court the minute he arrived. Minutes also can reflect physical conditioning and ability to avoid foul trouble. For that reason I treated more minutes like a good thing and low usage during those minutes as a good thing meaning it's allowing more opportunities for teammates while creating these numbers.
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For reference, I voted for Garza over Georges, but I do disagree with these points. Garza is not double / triple teamed EVERY SINGLE time he touches the ball. Sure, there are times when teams send 1-2 guys at him, but that's down low. Teams send two guys at post players all the time.
Ok, lets just say that Garza faces 100x more double and triple teams than Niang ever did. Garza consistently faces at least a double team 80% of the time he touches the ball. There have been a couple exceptions, Michigan last year decided to play Garza 1v1 all game since they had the Big10 best post defender in Teske. Garza had over 40 points that game.
I posted usage % to show Iowa dumps the ball to Garza more often, not a crazy amount more, but more. His usage % is 30%. Even a player who wasn't as good with a 30% usage is going to get double and tripple teamed.
On the flip side Niang being 27% usage means he probably got double teamed almost as much because he was the one taking the shots almost as often.
I think you may be forgetting that Georges was double teamed quite often down low as well as exaggerating the amount of times Luka gets double teamed. And again, I'm not saying Luka isn't good and I actually picked him over Georges, but the way you're putting it is that Luka is essentially being guarded by 2-3 players the entire game when he's just not lol.
Luka having two guys contesting his shot is entirely different than him getting double teamed every single time he touches the ball.
Their usage % isn't that different.
A player's passing and ball handling ability affects how you can double and tripple team them.
Jokic is the best passing big man I've seen in my life. He's' scoring 27ppg this year. Nobody is going to triple team him because he passes at a Magic Johnson level of skill.
There's less risk double teaming Garza than Niang. Not saying Garza is a horrible passer, he's just not a brilliant passing big. I used an extreme example to prove the point.
If Shaq could put the ball on the floor and pass like Nikola Jokic, even Shaq wouldn't have faced a lot of double teams.
Best Bird to play basketball was Larry, Second place, this guy:
Then Garza comes in at 3rd.
Georges was often the biggest player on the floor for us and was doubled by two 6'10+ guys. And he still got buckets.
This is why I said it is hard to compare the different positions. A post player like Garza is naturally going to see more double teams that a Niang who played outside more than Garza does. Yet Garza faces a double team nearly every time he touches it down low. If you don't watch ever Iowa game, you really have no clue by usage numbers just how often Garza gets doubled and tripled.
Some of the front lines Baylor and KU had those years against Georges were insanely long and athletic. That's 5 games a year right there and you are right that he'd be going against two of those monster sized pogo sticks quite often.
Georges played Embiid three times his junior year.
I have watched nearly every single Iowa game and while I agree it's a lot, it's not every single time he touches the ball. You made it sound like teams run two guys at him like it's an AAU tournament.
Georges was ISU's only post in about 80% of his games.
He played down low and mostly shot 3s in transition. He plays a completely different role in the NBA.
His freshman year his entire role was to come in for the last 10 minutes (because he wasn't in shape) and outscore the bigger guys for the other team right at the rim because they couldn't guard his moves.
The point you're ignoring is Garza can be triple teamed because he lacks certain skills that some other forwards and centers have.
I don't think Niang had more net productivity, just slightly less. When you say it's "drastically" different you just aren't right.
I think total career productivity between Morris and Garza is very close. I think Garza isn't as good as Fizer's junior year in lots of ways. I'm sure there are some other Iowa players whose best season could compare to Garza's year this year as well...just those players are from the 70s and 80s most likely where ISU's best players were more recent in Fizer/Tinsley team and Hoiball era.
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