Dune - Villeneuve adaptation

[Sigmapolis]

I think that’s just a taste thing. I still want a story in my sci fi and I don’t get into the political or cultural treatise stuff. Heinlien and later Orson Scott Card stuff for example.

I understand that. The best writers can give you ideas and themes through their plot and characters while still giving you that fun, pulpy action -- which is exactly what Herbert does with the original Dune so well.

I liked God Emperor and appreciate it more and more after rereading the original with the words of Leto II in mind, but I can see why reading a long novel that is basically Professor Herbert lecturing can be uninviting.

 

[Sigmapolis]

Looks pretty perfect coming from somebody who has read the book multiple times and even a fan of Lynch version. I think this looks better than what Jodorowsky's would have been too.

I work in licensed toys and collectibles, this title is going to be a sleeper hit in that area for the very few who did things for it. I had heard industry comments it was mind blowing, but the trailer is probably too late to get in last minute development.

The Lynch version conflicts me so badly. I love Lynch as a director generally, but I am not sure he was the right choice for a science fiction epic. It is not bad -- at least in the traditional sense -- but it is so wildly inconsistent. Certain scenes and characters nailed, but others are just embarrassingly bad. The effects clearly were not up to the task of the vision, though some of the cheesy 80s things about it (such as the Toto soundtrack) have aged surprisingly well given their nature.

I think it is best the Jodorowsky version never made it to production. I do not know how it would not have collapsed under its own weight given the eccentricities of its director, the ambition of the production, and the relatively primitive special effects technology of the mid-1970s (this was before A New Hope and Star Trek: TMP, though after 2001 and other early luminaries, obviously). I wish Pink Floyd would have just went ahead and created the soundtrack as an album, though. I loved that 2013 documentary, and I am glad the effort did have a long-term influence on Star Wars, Alien, Flash Gordon, The Terminator, and The Fifth Element. It is probably the most influential movie that was never actually made.

I feel like I am the lone defender of the miniseries. It certainly has its problems, but if viewed as something of a glorified stage production, it actually does a decent job of telling the story. The Dune miniseries was okay, but the Children of Dune miniseries (with a young James McAvoy) is actually really surprisingly good.

I hope the first two Dune films do well. There is enough material for two more from Messiah and Children if it rakes in the $$$.

 

[harimad]

Just please don’t **** this up like Ender’s Game (just gawdterribawful) or Starship Troopers (fun, but really nothing like the source material). Dune deserves an incredible movie.

 

[Sigmapolis]

Just please don’t **** this up like Ender’s Game (just gawdterribawful) or Starship Troopers (fun, but really nothing like the source material). Dune deserves an incredible movie.

Starship Troopers is a great film on its own (satirical) merits, even if it is only vaguely inspired by the original Heinlein novel.

 

[HFCS]

The Lynch version conflicts me so badly. I love Lynch as a director generally, but I am not sure he was the right choice for a science fiction epic. It is not bad -- at least in the traditional sense -- but it is so wildly inconsistent. Certain scenes and characters nailed, but others are just embarrassingly bad. The effects clearly were not up to the task of the vision, though some of the cheesy 80s things about it (such as the Toto soundtrack) have aged surprisingly well given their nature.

I think it is best the Jodorowsky version never made it to production. I do not know how it would not have collapsed under its own weight given the eccentricities of its director, the ambition of the production, and the relatively primitive special effects technology of the mid-1970s (this was before A New Hope and Star Trek: TMP, though after 2001 and other early luminaries, obviously). I wish Pink Floyd would have just went ahead and created the soundtrack as an album, though. I loved that 2013 documentary, and I am glad the effort did have a long-term influence on Star Wars, Alien, Flash Gordon, The Terminator, and The Fifth Element. It is probably the most influential movie that was never actually made.

I feel like I am the lone defender of the miniseries. It certainly has its problems, but if viewed as something of a glorified stage production, it actually does a decent job of telling the story. The Dune miniseries was okay, but the Children of Dune miniseries (with a young James McAvoy) is actually really surprisingly good.

I hope the first two Dune films do well. There is enough material for two more from Messiah and Children if it rakes in the $$$.

Agree completely on all.

I'm a huge Lynch fan and Dune fan. I love that movie as a thing completely separate from either of them.

My company gets an early briefing on lots of films and I was so excited about this but knowing the mixed reception of screen adaptations I couldn't advise 'oh yeah merchandise this heavy like Marvel or Avatar'. I didn't want being a fan to blind me to flop potential. Seeing the trailer I think merchandise potential could be there even as a more adult film.

 

[NorthCyd]

Agree completely on all.

I'm a huge Lynch fan and Dune fan. I love that movie as a thing completely separate from either of them.

My company gets an early briefing on lots of films and I was so excited about this but knowing the mixed reception of screen adaptations I couldn't advise 'oh yeah merchandise this heavy like Marvel or Avatar'. I didn't want being a fan to blind me to flop potential. Seeing the trailer I think merchandise potential could be there even as a more adult film.

Who doesn't want a little miniature Harkonnen Bautista sitting on their desk?

 

[HFCS]

Who doesn't want a little miniature Harkonnen Bautista sitting on their desk?

It's not far off from what I'd be doing if left unchecked. I did "cute" Thanos items last year. I loved the bladerunner remake but I get why it wasn't a huge money maker. This feels big in every way.

 

[dahliaclone]

This cast is insanely impressive. I don’t like Chalemet but maybe he will win me over. I am a movie geek so when Charlotte Rampling showed up in the trailer I had an audible gasp.

Looks great. Fingers crossed.

 

[BryceC]

Agree completely on all.

I'm a huge Lynch fan and Dune fan. I love that movie as a thing completely separate from either of them.

My company gets an early briefing on lots of films and I was so excited about this but knowing the mixed reception of screen adaptations I couldn't advise 'oh yeah merchandise this heavy like Marvel or Avatar'. I didn't want being a fan to blind me to flop potential. Seeing the trailer I think merchandise potential could be there even as a more adult film.

I really like everybody, and I mean everybody involved here. If this is just an actively bad movie I'll be really disappointed.

 

[3GenClone]

Deadline is reporting that Wonder Woman 1984 is likely going to have it's release date pushed back (yet again) so it doesn't compete with Tenet for Box Office totals. This would push the release date of Dune into 2021.

‘Wonder Woman 1984’: Exhibition Braces For Another Release Date Change During Pandemic Post-‘Tenet’

Sources says Warner Bros is apt to move Wonder Woman 1984 out of its current October 2 release date to either November or late December.

deadline.com

 

[SpokaneCY]

Starship Troopers is a great film on its own (satirical) merits, even if it is only vaguely inspired by the original Heinlein novel.

My FAVORITE bad movie of all time. Probably watched it beginning to end over a dozen times and I almost never re-watch a movie.

 

[Sigmapolis]

My FAVORITE bad movie of all time. Probably watched it beginning to end over a dozen times and I almost never re-watch a movie.

What is bad about it...?

It is up there with Dr. Strangelove as a satire of American foreign policy.

Which is hilarious considering the original Heinlein novel advocates what amounts to fascism.

 

[NorthCyd]

What is bad about it...?

It is up there with Dr. Strangelove as a satire of American foreign policy.

Which is hilarious considering the original Heinlein novel advocates what amounts to fascism.

It's one of the most misunderstood movies around. People just do not understand what it's trying to be. My brother and I were busting up when we saw it in the theater and the old couple in front of us was horrified.

 

[1100011CS]

I'm in the middle of reading Dune for the first time right now. As a reader of science fiction since I was a kid (many moons ago), I don't know why I was never introduced to this series. I guess better late than never.

 

[Entropy]

Dune is an all-timer. Messiah and Children are acceptable sequels that wrap up the character and plot arcs established by the first, but they are not transcendent achievements like the original novel that built the universe.

God Emperor Is not a fun read, but it grows on you over time. There is not much for plot and character development, but the book itself is a fascinating piece of political philosophy. Reading the original after hearing everything the God Emperor says in the fourth book really crystallizes and gives additional layers to the first novel.

God Emperor is in my top 10 for science fiction and fantasy novels. The original is first on the list.

There are some great truths to mine regarding leadership and politics from Dune. I read the rest of the original 4 books in high school, so I missed a lot of the subtlety in God Emperor. It would probably be far more interesting to read it now. I just couldn't get into the flow of the book.

From a movie perspective, I grew up in a family that loved the long cut of Dune. I own it now on DVD, and pull it out occasionally. It was my first real trip into sci-fi that wasn't sanitized like Star Wars.

 

[Sigmapolis]

There are some great truths to mine regarding leadership and politics from Dune. I read the rest of the original 4 books in high school, so I missed a lot of the subtlety in God Emperor. It would probably be far more interesting to read it now. I just couldn't get into the flow of the book.

From a movie perspective, I grew up in a family that loved the long cut of Dune. I own it now on DVD, and pull it out occasionally. It was my first real trip into sci-fi that wasn't sanitized like Star Wars.

In Herbert's own words --

https://vasil.ludost.net/dunegenesis.pdf

Dune began with a concept whose mostly unfleshed images took shape across about six years of research and one and a half years of writing. The story was all in my head until it appeared on paper as I typed it out.

How did it evolve? I conceived of a long novel, the whole trilogy as one book about the messianic convulsions that periodically overtake us. Demagogues, fanatics, con-game artists, the innocent and the not-so-innocent bystanders-all were to have a part in the drama. This grows from my theory that superheroes are disastrous for humankind. Even if we find a real hero (whatever-or whoever-that may be), eventually fallible mortals take over the power structure that always comes into being around such a leader.

Personal observation has convinced me that in the power area of politics/economics and in their logical consequence, war, people tend to give over every decision-making capacity to any leader who can wrap himself in the myth fabric of the society. Hitler did it. Churchill did it. Franklin Roosevelt did it. Stalin did it. Mussolini did it.

My favorite examples are John F. Kennedy and George Patton. Both fitted themselves into the flamboyant Camelot pattern, consciously assuming bigger-than-life appearance. But the most casual observation reveals that neither was bigger than life. Each had our common human ailment-clay feet.

This, then, was one of my themes for Dune: don't give over all of your critical faculties to people in power, no matter how admirable those people may appear to be. Beneath the hero's facade you will find a human being who makes human mistakes. Enormous problems arise when human mistakes are made on the grand scale available to a superhero. And sometimes you run into another problem.

It is demonstrable that power structures tend to attract people who want power for the sake of power and that a significant proportion of such people are imbalanced-in a word, insane.

That was the beginning. Heroes are painful, superheroes are a catastrophe. The mistakes of superheroes involve too many of us in disaster.

 

[Sigmapolis]

Release delayed until October 2021 --

https://variety.com/2020/film/box-office/dune-release-date-delayed-2021-1234767105/

This terrifies me because...

(1.) Are theaters going to survive that much longer without operating or significant releases? My wife and I went to Tenet together, and you think a Nolan film is about as bankable as they come nowadays... and we were the only two in the IMAX theater to watch it. People might just fall out of the habit of it.

Light spoilers (for a novel that came out in 1966) --

Spoiler

(2.) Dune (the movie discussed in this thread here) is only the first half of the first novel... I would imagine through roughly somewhere between the death of Duncan and Leto/Paul and Jessica escaping into the desert and ingratiating themselves with the Fremen. But that means the whole second half... Paul becoming Muad'Dib, the Fremen intifada, the Battle of Arakeen, and Paul's final confrontation with House Harkonnen... is yet to be filmed.

If this thing does not make much money back, then the second half of Dune (and never mind Messiah and Children) will never happen.

Nor will many more $200+ million spectacles save maybe Marvel films.

 

[Clonehomer]

Release delayed until October 2021 --

https://variety.com/2020/film/box-office/dune-release-date-delayed-2021-1234767105/

This terrifies me because...

(1.) Are theaters going to survive that much longer without operating or significant releases? My wife and I went to Tenet together, and you think a Nolan film is about as bankable as they come nowadays... and we were the only two in the IMAX theater to watch it. People might just fall out of the habit of it.

Light spoilers (for a novel that came out in 1966) --

Spoiler

(2.) Dune (the movie discussed in this thread here) is only the first half of the first novel... I would imagine through roughly somewhere between the death of Duncan and Leto/Paul and Jessica escaping into the desert and ingratiating themselves with the Fremen. But that means the whole second half... Paul becoming Muad'Dib, the Fremen intifada, the Battle of Arakeen, and Paul's final confrontation with House Harkonnen... is yet to be filmed.

If this thing does not make much money back, then the second half of Dune (and never mind Messiah and Children) will never happen.

Nor will many more $200+ million spectacles save maybe Marvel films.

I thought that studios saw that they could still make decent money with direct to home releases? Dropping $20-$30 for an early rental isn't that big of a deal.

A year gives you plenty of time to ugrade the home experience.

 

[Sigmapolis]

I thought that studios saw that they could still make decent money with direct to home releases? Dropping $20-$30 for an early rental isn't that big of a deal.

A year gives you plenty of time to ugrade the home experience.

I am not sure that audience is going to be consistent enough to afford production and promotional budgets of $300+ million for some films. Drop $30 for something like this...? Or how about we just watch one of the billions of free things already available on the various streaming services and online generally?

That is not a competition that makes a producer of these would-be blockbusters feel very comfortable right now. Didn't work at all with Mulan. That was around $200 million for production (no idea how), and it is on its way to losing upwards of $100+ million for the House of Mouse by the end of the year.

$300 million / $30 = 10 million

There are roughly 130 million American households.

Are 7.5% of the households in this country really going to drop $30 to rent every big budget blockbuster spectacle? When there are so many other options at home and these films are no longer "events" that you must see in theaters? Even if you count foreign gross, are 5% going to do that transaction...?

This is uncomfortable math for the industry.

 

[3GenClone]

Release delayed until October 2021 --

https://variety.com/2020/film/box-office/dune-release-date-delayed-2021-1234767105/

This terrifies me because...

(1.) Are theaters going to survive that much longer without operating or significant releases? My wife and I went to Tenet together, and you think a Nolan film is about as bankable as they come nowadays... and we were the only two in the IMAX theater to watch it.

Regal Cinemas just announced they are temporarily closing all of their theaters in the US and in the UK. They have over 500 theaters in the US. The more films that delay the more it will hurt the big theaters.

Regal Cinemas to temporarily shutter all US theaters as pandemic rages on — ABC News

The company did not set a reopening date for the closures.

apple.news

This could really revitalize the Independent film industry and local theaters. We could see another rebirth of spartan filmmaking like how Robert Rodriguez and Quentin Tarantino started out in the early 90s.