Down goes Freddy

People forget because of all the wins and how Fred rebuilt ISU that he essenstially took the last two years off, just phoned in recruiting. He knew he was leaving and just didn't care enough to work his ass off on the recruiting trail like ISU was paying him MILLIONS to do. That should piss off every ISU fan, it pisses me off. The guy phoned it in and Steve Prohm probably lost his job over it due to a giant hole in recruiting he had to build completely.

FFS, Steve Prohm lost his job because he won 14 total games in his last two seasons here, which happened to be his 5th and 6th years respectively in his tenure as Iowa State's basketball coach.

And I used to be as big of a Prohm defender (and in some contexts still am) as there was on this website.
 
If Fred was coaching at Virginia Tech, I probably wouldn’t even be aware or care about how his team was doing. However, the fact that it’s happening in Iowa State’s backyard makes it hard to ignore and draw some enjoyment out of the mess since it’s Nebby. After all, I had a lot of Husker fans snicker at me when they hired Fred because they knew I was an ISU fan. To that I say karma.
FFS, Steve Prohm lost his job because he won 14 total games in his last two seasons here, which happened to be his 5th and 6th years respectively in his tenure as Iowa State's basketball coach.

And I used to be as big of a Prohm defender (and in some contexts still am) as there was on this website.

If you were the King of the Prohm Defender nation then I was your Prime Minister.

I still blame Fred for Prohm's first team lacking depth, for Prohm's second team lacking much for underclassmen with experience, and for Prohm's third team being overmatched. Fred left a good roster for the next guy but I wouldn't exactly call it a self-sustaining one. Whoever came after Fred was going to have to completely rebuild the roster in the next year or two, which Prohm did with Shayok, TH, THT, LW, and etc., them.

But I don't know how you can blame Hoiberg for Prohm's roster going all pear-shaped in his fifth and sixth years. That was on Prohm. I can give him credit for guys like Horton-Tucker and Haliburton but Fred had nothing to do with Prohm's fifth and sixth teams just not belonging in the Big 12.
 
If you were the King of the Prohm Defender nation then I was your Prime Minister.

I still blame Fred for Prohm's first team lacking depth, for Prohm's second team lacking much for underclassmen with much experience, and for Prohm's third team being overmatched. Fred left a good roster for the next guy but I wouldn't exactly call it a self-sustaining one. Whoever came after Fred was going to have to completely rebuild the roster in the next year or two, which Prohm did.

But I don't know how you can blame Hoiberg for Prohm's roster going all pear-shaped in his fifth and sixth years. That was on Prohm. I can give him credit for guys like Horton-Tucker and Haliburton but Fred had nothing to do with Prohm's fifth and sixth teams just not belonging in the Big 12.

Prohm got good recruits that left early. Can’t remember any of Hoiberg’s NBA guys doing that except Royce and that didn’t work out well for anyone. Prohm’s last few seasons made him the new CF villain replacing McDermott but I will never forgive that douche for Wesley Johnson.
 
Prohm got good recruits that left early. Can’t remember any of Hoiberg’s NBA guys doing that except Royce and that didn’t work out well for anyone. Prohm’s last few seasons made him the new CF villain replacing McDermott but I will never forgive that douche for Wesley Johnson.

The best NBA players of "the era" are Morris and Niang.

They're ahead of everybody else in minutes by a mile.

I would guess Haliburton and Horton-Tucker eventually catch them.

But for now, Monté and Georges -- the two quintessential Fred guys -- are doing fine.
 
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There are a few coaches who will win anywhere they go. However, i'm seeing more and more that "fit" has a lot to do with it as well. CMC seems to have figured that out at least for now.
 
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People forget because of all the wins and how Fred rebuilt ISU that he essenstially took the last two years off, just phoned in recruiting. He knew he was leaving and just didn't care enough to work his ass off on the recruiting trail like ISU was paying him MILLIONS to do. That should piss off every ISU fan, it pisses me off. The guy phoned it in and Steve Prohm probably lost his job over it due to a giant hole in recruiting he had to build completely.
I guess I tend to believe that all of the noise about his leaving being imminent had more to do with him not being able to land the top notch talent in those last couple of years rather than him not trying. Just like I believe that the impending relegation of ISU to the MAC that the sports media couldn't stop assuring us was happening hurt Rhoads on the recruiting trail right when he should have been capitalizing on the Insite Bowl win with recruits. That was a hole from which Rhoads was never able to extricate himself.
 
Prohm got good recruits that left early. Can’t remember any of Hoiberg’s NBA guys doing that except Royce and that didn’t work out well for anyone. Prohm’s last few seasons made him the new CF villain replacing McDermott but I will never forgive that douche for Wesley Johnson.

It seemed more like the problem was less those 1 and dones and more the (complete lack of) base built around them. We had a good number of recruiting misses and regression. You can weather one and dones if you have some solid guys around them maintaining a base of program culture.
 
The best NBA players of "the era" are Morris and Niang.

They're ahead of everybody else in minutes by a mile.

I would guess Haliburton and Horton-Tucker eventually catch them.

But for now, Monté and Georges -- the two quintessential Fred guys -- are doing fine.

I’d say that Halliburton has more than caught Monte and Niang. He is averaging 14pts 7 assists 4 rebounds and 34 min per game.
 
I’d say that Halliburton has more than caught Monte and Niang. He is averaging 14pts 7 assists 4 rebounds and 34 min per game.

Depends on what you want to emphasize.

Morris
---
255 games
80 starts
6,328 minutes
2,642 points

Niang
---
278 games
16 starts
3,847 minutes
1,623 points

Haliburton
---
109 games
71 starts
3,503 minutes
1,480 points

Horton-Tucker
---
109 games
20 starts
2,360 minutes
980 points

Monté and Georges have more volume than TH and THT if only because of their longer tenures in the league. Haliburton is catching up fast, though, and I am pretty sure the two younger guys are going to have more productive careers in the end assuming the two of them stay relatively healthy.

The main point was to refute the notion that *none* of Fred's guys carved out good NBA careers for themselves. Which is not true -- Monté and Georges are high-level role players in the NBA, though certainly not stars. Tyrese and Talen definitely have higher-end potential, though, as they mature.

They'd be seniors right now if they stayed all four years.

Imagine that...

Haliburton
Hunter
Brockington
Horton-Tucker
Jones
---
Kalsheur
Grill
Kunc
Conditt

I know it is obviously fantastical but fun to look at.
 
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I'm shocked that with all the coaching jobs that opened, Prohm hasn't landed a job.:rolleyes: Give it up, he was over his head at ISU and the Big XII.
 
It seemed more like the problem was less those 1 and dones and more the (complete lack of) base built around them. We had a good number of recruiting misses and regression. You can weather one and dones if you have some solid guys around them maintaining a base of program culture.

Repeating but I'd like to some time hear about what the coach to player dynamics were like with CSP in the long run. Seemed to be able to sell himself and the program well and get some nice recruits like LW but it sounded like that turned sour as time went on.

That's a player attitude thing too so it's not all him but it also sounded like some didn't know where they stood when it came to roles, purpose, etc.
 
I guess I tend to believe that all of the noise about his leaving being imminent had more to do with him not being able to land the top notch talent in those last couple of years rather than him not trying. Just like I believe that the impending relegation of ISU to the MAC that the sports media couldn't stop assuring us was happening hurt Rhoads on the recruiting trail right when he should have been capitalizing on the Insite Bowl win with recruits. That was a hole from which Rhoads was never able to extricate himself.
Don't make me talk about football before Campbell!
 
Probably didn’t help recruiting when he interviewed for Gophers job

The fact that Fred seemingly was interested in Minnesota and is now at Nebraska says a lot. He wants to be in the Midwest but not in Ames, a place where he felt he and his family couldn't breathe and had zero privacy. Even Lincoln is significantly bigger than Ames and basketball is second by a long-shot there, so you have some more breathing room - and his kids are mostly grown up now. I personally think both are inferior jobs than ISU from a basketball perspective, but Minnesota has a good deal of history and is the only major D-1 school in a state with decent HS basketball, and Nebraska has family connections and a brand new arena that they're filling every night. Coaching the Bulls, even with as bad of management as they had when he took the gig, would be a dream job for a lot of people (history, Chicago is one of the biggest cities in the country) and if you're a coach at that level, you always believe that you'll be the guy to get it done even if the odds aren't in your favor.

I wish all the best for Fred but I think his coaching career is done at this point, and it's sad. I don't know what he does moving forward - possibly goes back to the type of job he had with the Wolves if he's lucky. It still kills me that he's not coaching the Cyclones and that he didn't want to be our Coach K, although there's no guarantee he could have sustained success here. It bothered me for at least 3-4 years after he left as the way things ended just left a very raw taste for all of us. But that's in the past and we've gotta hope that TJ can figure out how to get us to that level.
 
How on earth does Hoiberg need the $$...LMAO. I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess he's not some addicted better who has lost all his money..

Fred had enough money to live comfortably forever with generations of his kids living pretty comfortably....after his NBA days...let alone money he made with ISU and Bulls..

I was being facetious
 
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The fact that Fred seemingly was interested in Minnesota and is now at Nebraska says a lot. He wants to be in the Midwest but not in Ames, a place where he felt he and his family couldn't breathe and had zero privacy. Even Lincoln is significantly bigger than Ames and basketball is second by a long-shot there, so you have some more breathing room - and his kids are mostly grown up now. I personally think both are inferior jobs than ISU from a basketball perspective, but Minnesota has a good deal of history and is the only major D-1 school in a state with decent HS basketball, and Nebraska has family connections and a brand new arena that they're filling every night. Coaching the Bulls, even with as bad of management as they had when he took the gig, would be a dream job for a lot of people (history, Chicago is one of the biggest cities in the country) and if you're a coach at that level, you always believe that you'll be the guy to get it done even if the odds aren't in your favor.

I wish all the best for Fred but I think his coaching career is done at this point, and it's sad. I don't know what he does moving forward - possibly goes back to the type of job he had with the Wolves if he's lucky. It still kills me that he's not coaching the Cyclones and that he didn't want to be our Coach K, although there's no guarantee he could have sustained success here. It bothered me for at least 3-4 years after he left as the way things ended just left a very raw taste for all of us. But that's in the past and we've gotta hope that TJ can figure out how to get us to that level.

Just a note, they aren’t filling the arena. Something like 6000 tickets scanned for games in January.
 

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