Does Baylor Cheat?
- Thread starter daniel22
- Start date
It isn't any secret that college basketball recruiting is a dirty profession, so for all the people that live in the fantasy land where money grows on trees, just because coaches aren't getting caught doesn't mean they don't cheat.
When the enforcement agency that is tasked with policing the rules lacks the tools (ie subpoena power) and staff to adequately address enforcement, it shouldn't be interpreted as proof that cheating does not occur.
When millions of dollars are at stake and enforcement power is lacking, their will be coaches that will exploit that to gain an advantage. This is the current reality of college basketball recruiting, and it is very likely to continue unless there are significant changes in the way the rules are enforced.
When the enforcement agency that is tasked with policing the rules lacks the tools (ie subpoena power) and staff to adequately address enforcement, it shouldn't be interpreted as proof that cheating does not occur.
When millions of dollars are at stake and enforcement power is lacking, their will be coaches that will exploit that to gain an advantage. This is the current reality of college basketball recruiting, and it is very likely to continue unless there are significant changes in the way the rules are enforced.
I don't believe Baylor (Drew) blatantly cheats.
I do believe he bends every rule in the book until it can't be bent any farther.
I do believe he bends every rule in the book until it can't be bent any farther.
Selling point for recruits for Baylor? Having an opportunity to see RGIII's girlfriend on campus everyday.
Investigation over.
Investigation over.
I think drew does. In football though the coach had a good eye for rg3. Nobody wanted him as a qb and baylor said he could play qb.
Is there any evidence of Drew cheating? No. But would I be surprised to see Baylor vacating some wins in the future? No.
Unless someone involved in such a payment exposes it publicly, the NCAA lacks the enforcement tools to police such a transaction.
I don't know if Scott Drew is on the up and up but I will say this: there was always a constant rumble for many years about recruiting violations and Kelvin Sampson when he was at OU. Ultimately they proved to be right at both OU and Sampson's next stop, Indiana. Sampson is now out of college basketball altogether.
That same rumble exists around the Baylor program, and has for some time. It is compounded by the fact that Baylor, as a private school, is not required to report financial matters like AD spending to the public in the same way their public school counterparts have. It does invite suspicion, whether is it legitimate or not.
The most important thing this morning, however is this: last night's loss cannot be attributed to cheating in any way, unless one believes that giving up 26 points worth of slam dunks on defense is cheating.
That same rumble exists around the Baylor program, and has for some time. It is compounded by the fact that Baylor, as a private school, is not required to report financial matters like AD spending to the public in the same way their public school counterparts have. It does invite suspicion, whether is it legitimate or not.
The most important thing this morning, however is this: last night's loss cannot be attributed to cheating in any way, unless one believes that giving up 26 points worth of slam dunks on defense is cheating.
Why do people say it was overnight?
Drew was hired in 2003 (that's almost a decade ago). His classes:
2004 - Two international guys (Bruce and Diene) and Tim Bush. Not much at all.
2005 - First recruiting success. Rogers was the biggest get (#54 in the nation) who thought he could be a package deal with CJ Miles but ended up really only having G. Tech and Baylor to choose from when it was all said and done. Dugat (#74) was related to a coach and Jerrels was 3* who was only really recruited hard by Baylor. 3 good recruits who were sold immediate playing time (which they received) in the Big 12 but nothing earth shattering.
2006 - Got Tweety Carter. Baylor's first McDAA - even though he was ranked #91 in the nation per Rivals. He was undersized and really got the award as more of a lifetime achievement award for all the points he scored. Lomers (#56) was a win over A&M - no real blue bloods on him.
2007 - First top 50 recruit (after 4 years of recruiting - overnight I guess) in Lace Dunn. No one thought he would qualify and Baylor was the only the school that really recruited him hard.
2008 - Quincy Acy (#84) was thought by everybody to be reclassifying to 2009. Everyone else backed off Baylor did not and he ended up being good for 2008 - thus the June commit. Anthony Jones (#44) was a good get who Baylor had to beat out A&M for. I guess the real get in this class was Ekpe Udoh who transferred from Michigan to be closer to home, but he wasn't considered a top draft pick talent until he got to Baylor.
2009 - Cory Jefferson was the big get at #51 in the nation. Committed almost a year and a half before signing day.
So, in his first five classes Drew got zero real blue chip guys and won no recruiting battles over the big time programs. Recruited very well, but did not get elite talent. In fact, he struck out a ton of times with players he went after (J Palacios, D Arthur, B Eaton, Rashad Woods, Donald Sloan, Wil Walker, H N'Dyiae, J Wall, TMGriffin, John Henson were all linked to Baylor at some point)
2010 - First big time recruit in Perry Jones. Ended up being #9 in the nation. Of course everyone fails to mention that he committed as a freshman in 2007 before he really blew up (and grew 4"). He committed before both Anthony Jones, Quincy Acy, or Jefferson did. He stayed loyal to Drew even after his stock blew up. Of couse Baylor was in the middle of an Elite Eight run that year, so that's not a huge surprise.
2011 - Quincy Miller (#7). First elite guy, after 7 recruiting classes, two NCAA tournament apperances, a first round draft pick (Udoh), an an Elite Eight run that Baylor was able to turn away from more established programs. Of course it helped that we a Louisville were the only two schools that really offered both he and his best bud Bello.
tl;dr Overnight = almost a decade. Elite talent = 2 top 10 guys 1 who committed as a freshman. Beating out big time schools for recruits = one time really with Miller.
Drew was hired in 2003 (that's almost a decade ago). His classes:
2004 - Two international guys (Bruce and Diene) and Tim Bush. Not much at all.
2005 - First recruiting success. Rogers was the biggest get (#54 in the nation) who thought he could be a package deal with CJ Miles but ended up really only having G. Tech and Baylor to choose from when it was all said and done. Dugat (#74) was related to a coach and Jerrels was 3* who was only really recruited hard by Baylor. 3 good recruits who were sold immediate playing time (which they received) in the Big 12 but nothing earth shattering.
2006 - Got Tweety Carter. Baylor's first McDAA - even though he was ranked #91 in the nation per Rivals. He was undersized and really got the award as more of a lifetime achievement award for all the points he scored. Lomers (#56) was a win over A&M - no real blue bloods on him.
2007 - First top 50 recruit (after 4 years of recruiting - overnight I guess) in Lace Dunn. No one thought he would qualify and Baylor was the only the school that really recruited him hard.
2008 - Quincy Acy (#84) was thought by everybody to be reclassifying to 2009. Everyone else backed off Baylor did not and he ended up being good for 2008 - thus the June commit. Anthony Jones (#44) was a good get who Baylor had to beat out A&M for. I guess the real get in this class was Ekpe Udoh who transferred from Michigan to be closer to home, but he wasn't considered a top draft pick talent until he got to Baylor.
2009 - Cory Jefferson was the big get at #51 in the nation. Committed almost a year and a half before signing day.
So, in his first five classes Drew got zero real blue chip guys and won no recruiting battles over the big time programs. Recruited very well, but did not get elite talent. In fact, he struck out a ton of times with players he went after (J Palacios, D Arthur, B Eaton, Rashad Woods, Donald Sloan, Wil Walker, H N'Dyiae, J Wall, TMGriffin, John Henson were all linked to Baylor at some point)
2010 - First big time recruit in Perry Jones. Ended up being #9 in the nation. Of course everyone fails to mention that he committed as a freshman in 2007 before he really blew up (and grew 4"). He committed before both Anthony Jones, Quincy Acy, or Jefferson did. He stayed loyal to Drew even after his stock blew up. Of couse Baylor was in the middle of an Elite Eight run that year, so that's not a huge surprise.
2011 - Quincy Miller (#7). First elite guy, after 7 recruiting classes, two NCAA tournament apperances, a first round draft pick (Udoh), an an Elite Eight run that Baylor was able to turn away from more established programs. Of course it helped that we a Louisville were the only two schools that really offered both he and his best bud Bello.
tl;dr Overnight = almost a decade. Elite talent = 2 top 10 guys 1 who committed as a freshman. Beating out big time schools for recruits = one time really with Miller.
Last edited:
The lamest excuse in the book is to justify one`s wrong actions by claiming that others do the same thing.
There is nothing that is endearing about Waco, Texas. There is no long tradition of success, and the bb atmosphere is weak to say the least. McD AAs do not go to Waco, Texas unless their is a compelling reason to shun other bb rich programs that consistently get the most out their talents and put players into the NBA every year. Drew is apparently dancing with the devil, and he will(and/or Baylor) will pay the tab eventually.
This all makes some sense, but I think people's concerns are more based in the fact that he is drawing a lot of Top 100 and some Top 10 talent to a school with no basketball tradition, a half empty stadium, and with no history of putting guys into the pros. Name another school who is able to do that...
Not saying it is impossible, but you have to be able to see where the suspicion comes from.
Last edited:
So should no schools be able to rise above their history? Should ISU football never be good? It comes down to hiring the right people.
4 top 50 guys in 9 years is hardly eyebrow raising and it has followed a natural progression over a decade of work and increased success on the court.
turducken,
Coaches know first hand the seedy nature of college basketball recruiting.
When multiple respected coaches single out Baylor's coach for his recruiting activities then why wouldn't fans of other schools question what is going at Baylor?
Coaches know first hand the seedy nature of college basketball recruiting.
When multiple respected coaches single out Baylor's coach for his recruiting activities then why wouldn't fans of other schools question what is going at Baylor?
It's not that Baylor (or ISU) should never be good. It's that they should build themselves up to being good, only getting those top recruits after they've seen a high level of success. The recruiting mode would typically be do more with less as you are building your program. In Baylor Basketball's case it's been do less with more.
Whats to understand?....drew & baylor are just BUYING PLAYERS & the possee at the ncaa will catch them and then its gonna be goodbye bears.....
If Rick Barnes could talk thats what he would tell ya
But isn't that what Baylor did? Went from cellar dweller to a team that just made it in to the NCAA in 2008 (Drew's 5th year), to an NIT runner up, then catching lighting in a bottle with Udoh and making an Elite Eight run. That was a gradual progression over almost a decade and only then did Baylor get noticed by the truly elite players. All the ones prior had warts or weren't all that highly recruited by tradition rich programs. Drew is now the second longest tenured coach in the Big 12, has a decade of building relationships with Texas high school and AAU coaches, but he must be cheating because, well, um, becuase...I mean, it's Baylor. No way they can be successful.
CycloneErik
Well-Known Member
Just to be difficult, because I feel like it: Would the allegations that Baylor's steady rise be made of Johnny Orr when he started here? Not much tradition, no recent success. Basically just a nice building and a coach that could recruit well.
I don't know either way, but it's very possible that Baylor did it the right way. Since I don't have proof either way, might as well give them the benefit of the doubt.
I don't know either way, but it's very possible that Baylor did it the right way. Since I don't have proof either way, might as well give them the benefit of the doubt.