The K position has been a train wreck for us for so long I can't even remember the last time I didn't crawl under the couch before every FG attempt. Our kickers have missed so many kicks that really mattered it isn't even funny.
Culbertson
- Thread starter cycloneworld
- Start date
I agree that Culbertson is an accurate kicker, but needs to perform in the clutch. What I don't understand is that UNI and other smaller schools can get a stud kicker and we can't. No offense to Culbertson, but missing the clutch kick 3 years in a row is just unacceptable, especially when its a chip shot.
Because they recruit kickers, Mac and staff's philosophy was to let them walk-on and give them a scholarship later. How you don't learn from your mistakes and change your ways after many, many years of awful kicking is lost on me...:growl5cj:
You can say Shaggy is accurate and all that because he stats say he is but like I asked before, answer this question...Would you feel comfortable with him lining up a 28 yard field goal to win a big game?
The answer is no for me.
I guess this has been my point all along. It's not like Shaggy came here and forced himself upon us. It was poor recruiting on the coaching staffs part (for kickers, something quite common under mac). It's really not his fault. I agree, if he can't make the kicks, he shouldn't be in there, but, if there is no one else in the well to go to, is it really Shaggy's fault, or the coaching staff for not having anyone to take the job?
I guess when it comes down to it, I didn't get wrapped up in the sentiments of the past couple of weeks. I'm glad for what D-Mac did here, but, I am also happy he is gone. Our kicking situation is one of those reasons. I'd like to blame Shaggy for our situation, but, I can't. I still blame Danny Mac. he's the guy that left us with being forced to hunt for walk on kickers. And in two years he didn't find anyone better. You can't blame a kid for going out and trying. You can blame a coach for not recruiting.
So now, because of poor recruiting, Shaggy gets a pass?
Can no one just be blamed/take blame for something in today's society? It's always someone else's fault.
He's the kicker, he missed another kick. Period.
I'll even go so far to say this....(to answer my own question I asked a few posts earlier)
If Shaggy makes any of the important kicks from 2004 or 2005 - D-Mac has a job today.
Blame both Dan and Shaggy for that one, you'd be correct. But it still remains - if we've got one or two North titles - we're not letting a head coach go.
Can no one just be blamed/take blame for something in today's society? It's always someone else's fault.
He's the kicker, he missed another kick. Period.
I'll even go so far to say this....(to answer my own question I asked a few posts earlier)
If Shaggy makes any of the important kicks from 2004 or 2005 - D-Mac has a job today.
Blame both Dan and Shaggy for that one, you'd be correct. But it still remains - if we've got one or two North titles - we're not letting a head coach go.
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I was thinking the EXACT same thing. It's not my fault I'm not as productive as I could be at work. They shouldn't let me log on to Cyclonefanatic!
Yes, he could be blamed. If he played a recruiting game with ISU to get a scholarship. Used other schools as leverage to win a starting spot on the team. Guess what, he didn't. In all honesty, we should be happy that he can make extra points, because the guy he replaced couldn't even do that. You are twisting my comments and now putting them to the whole of society. I'm not talking about a free pass. A free pass would only count if there were someone available to replace him that was better and because he bailed us out once we let him kick. Guess what, that better guy doesn't exist here. People should be held accountable, no doubt about it. But, when he's the best person you decided to put in that job. And you didn't bother to find someone better, it's not that guys fault for goofing up now and then. You are the one who knew he wasn't the best, you were just happy with second best. Always kind of seemed like Macs motto to me anyway.
And talk about twisting. Now you are blaming Shaggy for Dan's Demise? Come on, if Dan would have recruited a kicker, hired and offensive coordinator that wasn't happy to sit on a 7 point lead for an entire half, build a team that wasn't left desimated every 3 years, figure out a way before this year to win in OT, figure out a way to beat UConn, Put together a couple more winning seasons in the Big XII, not be known as so conservative, not take the ball first in overtime when you win the toss, for once, finish a season strong, then he'd still have a job too. Hell, if he would have been able to pull off one major upset inside of his own conference in the last 7 years he'd probably still have a job here too. My problem is not Shaggy, it's the fact that people are still skirting the issue about Mac. No one wants to admit our kicking woes are because of him. I guess, if it is true, that it's all Shaggy's fault, his kicks cost Mac his job, then I say good. We needed a change.
If he genuinely wasn't trying out there, then fine, bust his chopps all you want. I guarantee you though, he's not going out there with any intention to miss that kick. I'm positive he's putting everything he has into making that kick. The kid bailed us out when we needed it, does he get a pass from here on out, no, but, what everyone fails to see here is that we have no one who can take his job. That's where the problem is. It's not the kicker, it's the fact that the coaches didn't find it necissary or possible to find someone to replace him. I'd much rather have a guy that could make the pressure kick, but, we don't have that kid. As soon as a coach gets that kid here, I'd be happy to see Shaggy replaced.
In my opinion from being a highschool kicker, most of the time in practice or games when kicks are blocked its from the kicker kicking it too low. Obviously sometimes its the blocking, but in most cases if the kicker kicks it the height he should, there is no problem.
I sincerely hope you aren't serious with that comment...but I suspect you are. :rolleyes5cz:
So when the defense goes onto the field after Brett Meyer throws a pick at our own 10 yard line it's okay for the defense to just pack up shop and allow a touchdown because they shouldn't be in that situation??? Gimme a break...
He has a job to do, period. He has been able to do that job well most of the time. When then it was very important the job get done, he has failed on 3 attempts.
Sound familiar? It sounds like the Coach Mac situation. Mac is gone because he can't get the job done.
Again, I never disputed we shouldn't have tried to improve our kicking situation via recruiting. Dan and his staff should take blame for that. They didn't, it's done, so Shaggy is the guy. He aught to be able to boot through a 28 yarder - regardless of it being in the first or fourth quarter.
Now who's twisting? Dan had many things that led to his demise. I stated one of them, when you look at a pure individual player perspective - is Shaggy missing big kicks.
I know he's trying, never said he wasn't. Players try all the time and fail - we still criticize them. You mentioned Shaggy bailed us out when we needed him...how? Making extra points doesn't count man, even if the guy before him was crappy at that too. A player's only measuring stick can't be the crappy kickers that came before him. If that's the case, Vandy is doing one helluva job for the Cowboys. :no6xn:
I didn't a little looking and found some info.
2004 Missouri: We scored 14 points. (No Culbertson FG to get us there)
2005 Kansas: We scored 21 points. (No Culbertson FG to get us there)
2006 Missouri: We scored 21 points. (No Culbertson FG to get us there)
These are the 3 games where he had a chance to win or ice the game. 3 Field goals chances...he missed them all.
2004: 24 yarder with 1 minute to go.
2005: 40 yarder in OT.
2006: 28 yarder to put us up by 8.
PLUS...
- He missed one inside 29 yards at Nebraska in '05.
- Not sure what your '05 reference was cycloneworld, but he missed one in both the Missouri and Kansas games.
The '04 Iowa and Colorado games were not his fault though, someone else missed those kicks. Yay.
My biggest issue with Shaggy isn't those long misses...it's the ones inside 30 yards that would have won games for us...which are...
'04 Missouri
'05 Nebraska
Do you have any idea how different things would be today if just one of those kicks would have sailed through?
- He missed one inside 29 yards at Nebraska in '05.
- Not sure what your '05 reference was cycloneworld, but he missed one in both the Missouri and Kansas games.
The '04 Iowa and Colorado games were not his fault though, someone else missed those kicks. Yay.
My biggest issue with Shaggy isn't those long misses...it's the ones inside 30 yards that would have won games for us...which are...
'04 Missouri
'05 Nebraska
Do you have any idea how different things would be today if just one of those kicks would have sailed through?
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The one kick that Shaggy missed was when Hicks ran to the right and put him on the right hash mark close in. This is a terrible place to try to make a field goal. I have not seen the last kick he missed but I heard that Meyer ran a bootleg to the right. What we should of done was run the plan up the middle and set up the kick from the center of the field.
Because, the guy he replaced couldn't even make extra points. We needed a guy to make extra points and he filled the bill. Mac knew all along that beyond the 25 yard line, Shaggy was a very suspect kicker. He was brought in to at least make extra points. He bailed us out because constantly missing extra points and never making field goals would have cost Dan his job a lot quicker than missing the 3 game changers he did miss.
I'm not offering him a free pass, I'm not saying he deserves the job no matter what. What I am saying is it's not his fault he's the best we have. If he can't get it done we need someone else. Do you expect him to go out and find that guy?
The Missouri kick was a 28 yarder right down the pipe.
And the 40 yarder in 2005 in OT was the KU game. That's along FG but he has made longer ones when the game isn't on the line.
Don't know if you know this or not but he is statistically the most accurate kicker in ISU history. So I guess it isn't his fault that he's the best we've HAD.
I say statistically the best because I don't consider him even remotely close. He can't make clutch kicks...kicks that would have won us or sealed games...that's all I'm saying.
Yeah. We all know that he would have missed it whether it was blocked or not.. It mattered!
Shaggy has a high kicking percentage but has a ridiculously low kicking percentage when the kick makes a difference in the outcome of the game.
I like how you gloss over the fact that he made a lot of kicks in games prior to that that led to us winning games.
And ISUfan, I usually am right on board here, but to single out Shaggy (him being one of the reasons mac was fired) is absolute bullcrap. Yes, he should have made at least one of those kicks. But if you ask a kicker to walk on the first week of school and he ends up being a 2 1/2 year starter for you... well you know where I'm going with that.
If you can't find a kicker who can consistently make kicks in the clutch (or at all really) for 12 years, it isn't the fault of the individual, it's a systematic thing. Dan is the system, and he never found a player that could elevate himself in that situation. He had PLENTY of time for it.
Should Shags be held accountable for those kicks he missed? Yes, he should have made them. To suggest he is in any way the reason why Mac was fired is absolutely ridiculous in my mind. It doesn't absolve him of responsibility, but what if he didn't want to be on this team when he was a freshman, and he just wanted to be a regular college kid? We probably wouldn't be in the position to be playing for the big 12 championship the last two years, and that is a fact.
And ISUfan, I usually am right on board here, but to single out Shaggy (him being one of the reasons mac was fired) is absolute bullcrap. Yes, he should have made at least one of those kicks. But if you ask a kicker to walk on the first week of school and he ends up being a 2 1/2 year starter for you... well you know where I'm going with that.
If you can't find a kicker who can consistently make kicks in the clutch (or at all really) for 12 years, it isn't the fault of the individual, it's a systematic thing. Dan is the system, and he never found a player that could elevate himself in that situation. He had PLENTY of time for it.
Should Shags be held accountable for those kicks he missed? Yes, he should have made them. To suggest he is in any way the reason why Mac was fired is absolutely ridiculous in my mind. It doesn't absolve him of responsibility, but what if he didn't want to be on this team when he was a freshman, and he just wanted to be a regular college kid? We probably wouldn't be in the position to be playing for the big 12 championship the last two years, and that is a fact.
Bryce, tell me - if any of those kicks would have went in - are we searching for a new coach today?
I'm not putting all of that on Shaggy - but those missed kicks did have an impact on what's taking place today.
I'm not putting all of that on Shaggy - but those missed kicks did have an impact on what's taking place today.
Any examples?
I can't speak for Fan himself but he is saying that there were many reasons Mac got fired...one was for not winning the north when we had 2 EXCELLENT chances. If Shaggy makes one of those kicks, we win a north title. If we had won one, Mac still may be here. If we had won 2, most definitely. And Shaggy would probably the best kicker ISU has had. But none of that came true and Mac is gone.