Could this happen during expansion?

[Beyerball]

Here's what I"m wondering...I'm wondering if the Big 12 is moving fast to try to add 4 teams..2 of which is Cinncinati like and 2 are ACC or PAC teams? I've always thought this would never happen and is crazy talk but the big 12 by adding 4 teams gets a $1 billion check over the next 8 years and they get to use it how they please. There is no way 2 G5 teams will be paid more than say $10-$15mil per year or half what current members make for prob 4-5 years (like TCU) and maybe the Big 12 uses the other half of that $1 billion to basically pay 2 solid P5 teams to come to the big 12 and make a lot more money than they would in the PAC or even ACC? Then when the big 12 goes to renegotiate a new TV deal in 2024 or so they've added 2 big markets in G5 teams and 2 solid P5 teams to go with UT/OU etc..and the conference is no longer unstable it's stable as any.

IDK..Probably wishful thinking but $1 billion is a lot of dough and they are going to use it as leverage in some capacity.

 

[cymonw1980]

http://www.cbssports.com/college-fo...or-the-big-ten-sec-to-poach-the-big-12-again/

I think it could... but don't think it is likely. I am more concerned about this happening when the current GOR (grant of rights) expires. To me the key thing to watch is whether the B12 extends their GOR if/when they add the new members. If not, I think it's a bad sign.

My gut feeling is the B12 (let's be honest, TX and OU) decided that with the ACC launching it's network and extending GOR to 2036, there was no chance at getting schools from the ACC (or ND). I think the B12 wanted to take schools from another P5 and either ACC or P12 were the likely targets, since it would be almost impossible to get anyone to leave b10/sec. With this opportunity slipping away, option 2 is to expand with non-P5 options. You get them at a discount (don't pay new members equally for first 3 to 4+ yrs) but you get paid for a full share for the new schools by the networks. So, add say $60M for 2 schools in TV money, pay 50% share, split $30M with 10 current members, +$3M per school.

So, i am afraid that the current expansion is less about TX/OU looking at what is best for the B12 and more about trying to maximize the $'s they can make under the current deal. They will then wait and see how things play out over the remainder of the current GOR/TV deal. Then re-evaluate come 2024. If B12 is maintaining it's value in the P5 and new members are able to add value drive up revenues, B12 may survive. If OU/TX feel like they can do better... they will.

That is why GOR is the key for me. If no extension, B12 is in trouble come 2024...

 

[cymonw1980]

Here's what I"m wondering...I'm wondering if the Big 12 is moving fast to try to add 4 teams..2 of which is Cinncinati like and 2 are ACC or PAC teams? I've always thought this would never happen and is crazy talk but the big 12 by adding 4 teams gets a $1 billion check over the next 8 years and they get to use it how they please. There is no way 2 G5 teams will be paid more than say $10-$15mil per year or half what current members make for prob 4-5 years (like TCU) and maybe the Big 12 uses the other half of that $1 billion to basically pay 2 solid P5 teams to come to the big 12 and make a lot more money than they would in the PAC or even ACC? Then when the big 12 goes to renegotiate a new TV deal in 2024 or so they've added 2 big markets in G5 teams and 2 solid P5 teams to go with UT/OU etc..and the conference is no longer unstable it's stable as any.

IDK..Probably wishful thinking but $1 billion is a lot of dough and they are going to use it as leverage in some capacity.

I like where you're going.... use the money from the one's begging to get in, to buy someone from a P5... love it. I do think it is wishful thinking since conference realignment is a long term deal. I wonder about colorado... i really don't see anyone from sec/b10 leaving the paydays they are collecting. but say you add byu, memphis, cinci, and offer colorado big bucks (taken from those other schools) to leave the pac12. definitely worth a shot. you might be able to go back to the networks and renegotiate too since you would be adding to the media 'footprint'... like the out of the box thinking!

 

[Gonzo]

I am so tired of just completel misinformation...Show me a single scenerio where Texas makes more $$ going to the BIG? Show me one..There are the facts and they are published on the Internet for anyone who knows how to use google:

2015 TV revenue:
1- Every single BIG team= $30 million

2- Texas= $48 million

Now fast forward 5 years where the new BIG tv deal is in place and has been and each team is making let's say $50 mil (some reports say closer to $45 mil but let's go high)...The big 12 contract is set up to increase every single year in payout to a max of $43 mil per team in 2024..So let's say 5 years from now Texas makes $39 million from big 12 payout+ the LHN (remember you have to add LHN and Tier 3 which isn't included in Big 12 Tv revenue payout by the conf.) = $39 mil+$15 mil= $54 million Texas roughly makes 5 years from now. So basically by staying in the big 12 Texas is making probably $50-$70 million more than any other BIG team over a 5 year period...But yea Texas will make more in the BIG.

How many times does this have to be explained?

You're forgetting the academic $$$ that come from B1G membership and its CIC academic membership. The money saved from opportunities for joint collaboration and ridiculous amount of research funding awarded to B1G schools make $54 million, literally, a drop in the bucket. UT would be positioned to make massive, massive dollars as a part of the CIC.

 

[isucy86]

You're forgetting the academic $$$ that come from B1G membership and its CIC academic membership. The money saved from opportunities for joint collaboration and ridiculous amount of research funding awarded to B1G schools make $54 million, literally, a drop in the bucket. UT would be positioned to make massive, massive dollars as a part of the CIC.

Don't know anything about CIC and research grants, but would bringing Texas to the Big10 increase research monies available to Big10 schools. It would seem to me that a school like Texas could canabalize funding currently received by other Big10 schools.

 

[Cycsk]

I am not sure how Oklahoma could after their President was just out there promoting expansion of the conference. Will be interesting times over the next 6 months.

I don't trust Boren. He will do whatever he thinks is in OU's interest. Or his own interest.

 

[Gonzo]

Don't know anything about CIC and research grants, but would bringing Texas to the Big10 increase research monies available to Big10 schools. It would seem to me that a school like Texas could canabalize funding currently received by other Big10 schools.

Texas is a great research institution. Brings in gobs already. But with benefits of CIC it would bring in even more. CIC schools, which are the 14 B1G institutions and the U of Chicago, do over $10 billion in research every year.

 

[HoopsTournament]

I am so tired of just completel misinformation...Show me a single scenerio where Texas makes more $$ going to the BIG? Show me one..There are the facts and they are published on the Internet for anyone who knows how to use google:

2015 TV revenue:
1- Every single BIG team= $30 million

2- Texas= $48 million

Now fast forward 5 years where the new BIG tv deal is in place and has been and each team is making let's say $50 mil (some reports say closer to $45 mil but let's go high)...The big 12 contract is set up to increase every single year in payout to a max of $43 mil per team in 2024..So let's say 5 years from now Texas makes $39 million from big 12 payout+ the LHN (remember you have to add LHN and Tier 3 which isn't included in Big 12 Tv revenue payout by the conf.) = $39 mil+$15 mil= $54 million Texas roughly makes 5 years from now. So basically by staying in the big 12 Texas is making probably $50-$70 million more than any other BIG team over a 5 year period...But yea Texas will make more in the BIG.

How many times does this have to be explained?

I say 42 more times. Because people are just not getting it.

The answer to the question is NO. It could not happen due to the GOR. Plus Texas is not leaving. They like money and the Big 12 maximizes that. People can rationalize all they want and give all these other reasons, but it is not happening. They can give all these excuses why they think the Big 12 is not stable, but it is more stable than it has been in a long time.

Plus, I look at Houston, BYU, Cincinnati and Memphis and add them to the teams that are already in the conference and this is a better conference than the other P5 conferences top to bottom in football except SEC and except ACC in basketball. And it will be perceived as a better conference also due to the top teams not all playing each other and beating up on each other.

To me, all of these doomsday scenarios are just pure comedy. That is all they are.

 

[timinatoria]

I am so tired of just completel misinformation...Show me a single scenerio where Texas makes more $$ going to the BIG? Show me one..There are the facts and they are published on the Internet for anyone who knows how to use google:

2015 TV revenue:
1- Every single BIG team= $30 million

2- Texas= $48 million

Now fast forward 5 years where the new BIG tv deal is in place and has been and each team is making let's say $50 mil (some reports say closer to $45 mil but let's go high)...The big 12 contract is set up to increase every single year in payout to a max of $43 mil per team in 2024..So let's say 5 years from now Texas makes $39 million from big 12 payout+ the LHN (remember you have to add LHN and Tier 3 which isn't included in Big 12 Tv revenue payout by the conf.) = $39 mil+$15 mil= $54 million Texas roughly makes 5 years from now. So basically by staying in the big 12 Texas is making probably $50-$70 million more than any other BIG team over a 5 year period...But yea Texas will make more in the BIG.

How many times does this have to be explained?

Your 2015 Big Ten revenue is incorrect.

The 31.7M that each Big Ten school got in 2015 is only for tier 1 and 2. That number does NOT count the money from the Big Ten Network, bowl games of the College Football Playoff.

The 48M for Texas is total revenue from the conference and LHN.

You aren't comparing apples to apples.

 

[Rogue52]

Texas is a great research institution. Brings in gobs already. But with benefits of CIC it would bring in even more. CIC schools, which are the 14 B1G institutions and the U of Chicago, do over $10 billion in research every year.

U of Chicago is no longer a member and it's now known as the Big Ten Academic Alliance.

It's just a consortium. I don't think you can make a statement that Texas would bring in more money if they joined. The benefit is in research sharing. The schools stand on their own from the grants and funding they bring in.

 

[Shawker]

Your 2015 Big Ten revenue is incorrect.

The 31.7M that each Big Ten school got in 2015 is only for tier 1 and 2. That number does NOT count the money from the Big Ten Network, bowl games of the College Football Playoff.

The 48M for Texas is total revenue from the conference and LHN.

You aren't comparing apples to apples.

You just have to let beyer gon beyer.

 

[Beyerball]

Your 2015 Big Ten revenue is incorrect.

The 31.7M that each Big Ten school got in 2015 is only for tier 1 and 2. That number does NOT count the money from the Big Ten Network, bowl games of the College Football Playoff.

The 48M for Texas is total revenue from the conference and LHN.

You aren't comparing apples to apples.

Don't believe that is true; http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...-pay-salary-compensation-television/84553752/

$32.4 mil per team and that includes all media revenue..NCAA playoff..bowls..NCAA basketball tourney..all of it. There is no Tier 3 in the BIG it is only Tier 1 and Tier 2.. If I'm wrong then send me the info so we can compare Apples to Apples then...Show me the data and show me how much additional each BIG team got from BIG Network..

Do you know how many articles show the Big 12 as last per team in payout then don't include Tier 3? When this conference is the only conference in America with Tier 3 rights per team? No team in the BIG or SEC for that matter comes close to what Texas makes in media revenue...not close. Texas starts with a $15 mil head start every single year.

 

[Beyerball]

You just have to let beyer gon beyer.

Show me the data then..

 

[timinatoria]

Don't believe that is true; http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...-pay-salary-compensation-television/84553752/

$32.4 mil per team and that includes all media revenue..NCAA playoff..bowls..NCAA basketball tourney..all of it. There is no Tier 3 in the BIG it is only Tier 1 and Tier 2.. If I'm wrong then send me the info so we can compare Apples to Apples then...Show me the data and show me how much additional each BIG team got from BIG Network..

Do you know how many articles show the Big 12 as last per team in payout then don't include Tier 3? When this conference is the only conference in America with Tier 3 rights per team? No team in the BIG or SEC for that matter comes close to what Texas makes in media revenue...not close. Texas starts with a $15 mil head start every single year.

What I mean by that is tier 3 for the Big 10 IS the BTN. Sorry for the confusion.

Here is the link where I got my info.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...deal-shows-big-ten-prominence-is-here-to-stay

From the link.

[FONT=&quot]Ourand[/FONT][FONT=&quot] hailed the Big Ten's negotiations as a "clear win" for the league, and the numbers speak for themselves. If you divide the $444 million the conference will pull in annually across its 14 schools, each will receive a yearly $31.7 million—and that's before adding in additional revenue from the Big Ten Network, bowl games or appearances in the College Football Playoff.[/FONT]

 

[timinatoria]

Also poking around for more info on this(it's hard to find good reliable info) I found this.

http://blogs.mercurynews.com/colleg...t-addresses-the-revenue-gap-with-big-ten-sec/

One thing everyone can agree on, the Pac-12 is kinda screwed right now.

From the link -

First, let’s address the exact nature of the revenue gap. Since the discussion, there have been two relevant developments:

1) The Big 12 announced its latest distribution: $30.4 million per school, which was higher than anticipated. (No specifics were given, but my understanding is the increase can be traced to the terms of the Tier 1 contract.)

2) The second piece of the Big Ten’s new deal came into focus with the SportsBusiness Daily reporting that ESPN would purchase the B1G’s remaining rights for $190 million annually. Add $240 million from Fox, another $10 million from CBS, and the conference’s TV revenue is astronomical.
The double-whammy of news from the Big 12 and Big Ten will place the Pac-12 in worse shape a few years from now (relative to its peers) than it has been at any point since the start of its $3 billion Tier 1 deal with ESPN and Fox.

Here are expected distributions per-school for TV rights in 2017-18, when the Big Ten deal kicks in.
Note I: Figures do not include revenue from College Football Playoff, March Madness, etc. This isonly TV rights.

Note II: Figures are estimated, largely because of uncertainty regarding the exact income amounts from conference TV networks.

Big Ten: $41 million per school
(Includes Tier 1 deal, annual Big Ten Network distributions and BTN profit sharing)

SEC: $34 million per school
(Includes Tier 1 and SEC Network revenue)

Big 12: $23 million
(Includes Tier 1 deal and rights fee for football championship game but not Tier 3 rights, which are owned by the schools and vary greatly)

Pac-12: $22.5 million
(Includes Tier 1 deal and $2.5 million per school in Pac-12 Networks distributions)

So ….
That’s a monumental gap, especially with regard to the Big Ten. And as we’ve noted before, the Big Ten is viewed as the true peer conference by Pac-12 presidents and chancellors — partly because of the academic reputation of its schools, partly because of the long on-field relationship via the Rose Bowl.

(Yes, yes, yes: DirecTV would add a few millions dollars annually to the coffers of each Pac-12 school, but it wouldn’t come close to eliminating the gaps with the SEC and B1G.)

*** Although we didn’t talk specific numbers and didn’t have the new Big 12 and Big Ten data, Scott acknowledged the existence of a gap and said (DTV aside) that there is “no silver bullet” for the Pac-12 on the revenue front.

 

[Gonzo]

U of Chicago is no longer a member and it's now known as the Big Ten Academic Alliance.

It's just a consortium. I don't think you can make a statement that Texas would bring in more money if they joined. The benefit is in research sharing. The schools stand on their own from the grants and funding they bring in.

Yeah but the benefits provided by the consortium, the collaboration, the shared resources, do benefit the individual institutions in attracting federal grants. They're more attractive and receive more funding, because of their membership. That's how UT would benefit and stand to land much more research $$$.

 

[HoopsTournament]

What I mean by that is tier 3 for the Big 10 IS the BTN. Sorry for the confusion.

Here is the link where I got my info.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...deal-shows-big-ten-prominence-is-here-to-stay

From the link.

[FONT=&amp]Ourand[/FONT][FONT=&amp] hailed the Big Ten's negotiations as a "clear win" for the league, and the numbers speak for themselves. If you divide the $444 million the conference will pull in annually across its 14 schools, each will receive a yearly $31.7 million—and that's before adding in additional revenue from the Big Ten Network, bowl games or appearances in the College Football Playoff.[/FONT]

That is talking about future payout, not the amount they got last year of $32.4m which did include everything. This is the new TV deal. You are quoting one number and claiming it as a reference for a different one.

 

[cymonw1980]

That is talking about future payout, not the amount they got last year of $32.4m which did include everything. This is the new TV deal. You are quoting one number and claiming it as a reference for a different one.

Correct. This year the Big 12 was in range of b10/sec. And depending on school some made more (Texas +15M) when you add tier 3.

Problem is that the new deal for the big 10 is over 30m per school, before the network and bowl payouts. So, next year big 10 will be around 50M or so per school.

Texas should be in range with their network revenue but most other Big 12 schools will lag behind. Biggest concern is gap between OU and other conferences.

Also, this year B12 had a school in the playoff... That was part of the reason we beat out the PAC this year in revenue.

 

[Beyerball]

Also poking around for more info on this(it's hard to find good reliable info) I found this.

http://blogs.mercurynews.com/colleg...t-addresses-the-revenue-gap-with-big-ten-sec/

One thing everyone can agree on, the Pac-12 is kinda screwed right now.

From the link -

First, let’s address the exact nature of the revenue gap. Since the discussion, there have been two relevant developments:

1) The Big 12 announced its latest distribution: $30.4 million per school, which was higher than anticipated. (No specifics were given, but my understanding is the increase can be traced to the terms of the Tier 1 contract.)

2) The second piece of the Big Ten’s new deal came into focus with the SportsBusiness Daily reporting that ESPN would purchase the B1G’s remaining rights for $190 million annually. Add $240 million from Fox, another $10 million from CBS, and the conference’s TV revenue is astronomical.
The double-whammy of news from the Big 12 and Big Ten will place the Pac-12 in worse shape a few years from now (relative to its peers) than it has been at any point since the start of its $3 billion Tier 1 deal with ESPN and Fox.

Here are expected distributions per-school for TV rights in 2017-18, when the Big Ten deal kicks in.
Note I: Figures do not include revenue from College Football Playoff, March Madness, etc. This isonly TV rights.

Note II: Figures are estimated, largely because of uncertainty regarding the exact income amounts from conference TV networks.

Big Ten: $41 million per school
(Includes Tier 1 deal, annual Big Ten Network distributions and BTN profit sharing)

SEC: $34 million per school
(Includes Tier 1 and SEC Network revenue)

Big 12: $23 million
(Includes Tier 1 deal and rights fee for football championship game but not Tier 3 rights, which are owned by the schools and vary greatly)

Pac-12: $22.5 million
(Includes Tier 1 deal and $2.5 million per school in Pac-12 Networks distributions)

So ….
That’s a monumental gap, especially with regard to the Big Ten. And as we’ve noted before, the Big Ten is viewed as the true peer conference by Pac-12 presidents and chancellors — partly because of the academic reputation of its schools, partly because of the long on-field relationship via the Rose Bowl.

(Yes, yes, yes: DirecTV would add a few millions dollars annually to the coffers of each Pac-12 school, but it wouldn’t come close to eliminating the gaps with the SEC and B1G.)

*** Although we didn’t talk specific numbers and didn’t have the new Big 12 and Big Ten data, Scott acknowledged the existence of a gap and said (DTV aside) that there is “no silver bullet” for the Pac-12 on the revenue front.

I'm sorry but you are incorrect sir..You have given 2017 projected revenue...THere is no Tier 3 in BIG it is all Tier 1 and Tier 2. Unless I missed something completely. and the big 12 from that article didn't even come close to $23 mil..lol. The big 12 just had a payout of $31 mil without TIER 3!! it is a contract that increases every year based on numerous factors but does until 2023..

Let's wave a flag for a second..Lets agree that Big 12 and BIG both made a crap load of money and the difference isn't that much but for Texas it is..

 

[ISUTex]

I was actually going to post a similar thought in another thread, but decided to delete it in fear of being mocked. IMO, if I were Texas, I'd be looking at the Big 10 hard. They would jump at the chance to add Texas and the windfall of money in locking down that area of the country with the Big 10 network, would be huge. It's no harder path to the playoff than the Big 12 and would probably be a huge increase in money.

The only thing I see preventing it, is Texas ego. I'm not sure they'd like to move where they weren't the dictating Big Dog of the conference. I have a feeling if Texas is really going to share everything, the SEC is where they would want to be. Then again, I never thought Nebraska would bury their ego in favor of money either. So is their goal an easy path to the playoff, more money, a combination of the two, or is their goal to prove they have the ability to dominate college football again.

In any case, I see the PAC 12 as their last landing spot. Yeah, possibly an easier path, but in the end, they'll take a hit on money without really improving any recruiting or prestige for their program.

Texas and Nebraska together again? Texas not being able to give orders to Ohio State and Michigan? I think not. SEC? Possible. Pac 12? Possible. Big 12, by far the most likely outcome. Texas would be really dumb to leave the Big 12. Not sure why OU would leave either. IF BYU and Houston join, that would bring in MORE money. Plus, the conference title game. Texas could be in the South division and get matched up with WVU, ISU, KSU, BYU or whoever the the champ game. Pretty nice path to a playoff.