Common Sense Lost in Schools??
- Thread starter BugDoc
- Start date
That's why I said I probably shouldn't be. But I would expect it more in Oregon or MA.
Considering this is how the entire state of Florida voted in 2004...
Where can I get one of these for my kids??? Eventhough they have trouble figuring this out in FL, I am confident that any toddler could figure it out.
IMO, the problem isn't with the reaction, it's with the rules that cause it in the first place. Everyone is so freaked out about their kids getting hurt that rules/laws like this get enacted. The 2000 foot rule is a great example.
OMG we can't have sexual predators living within 2000 feet of a school! Or a daycare! Or a bus stop! Guess what? It doesn't make a lick of difference where they live. They can live 2005 feet away and drive the extra five feet and snatch a kid up from one those places anyway. It's a stupid law meant to make reactionary chicken little parents feel better about something that they have no control over. It does absolutely nothing to fix the problem, and just provides a false sense of security, not to mention potentially creating an even more dangerous problem (colonies of sexual predators living in parks, and offenders not registering, or not registering truthfully for instance).
Teachers are part of the problem, but they are mostly part of the problem because the larger part of the problem is parents who are unwilling to take responsibility for their children's actions, and unwilling to make their children accept responsibility for their own actions. Teachers have no choice but to cover their butts, and their school's butt. They do the best they can, some of them, anyway, but it's a lot easier to just follow policy, no matter how misguided or irrational, because that policy is written to keep things as benign as possible for the school. It's a lot easier to blame the policy than to force a teacher or administrator to be accountable for making a subjective judgment call, even if it's the correct subjective judgment call.
The world doesn't run on common sense, and sometimes, often even, that's for very good reason. "Common sense" often ignores the complexity and requirements of problems and their solutions. Kids need to be raised on it, though, IMO, and if families aren't providing that at home, I think it's incumbent upon the schools to at least provide examples of how it's supposed to work, even if it lands them in legal limbo. As a taxpayer I don't mind paying for defense from a frivolous lawsuit or two if it's a reasonable decision that's being questioned (i.e. a kid brings a bowie knife to school in his backpack with the intent of threatening another kid, and is suspended or something).
OMG we can't have sexual predators living within 2000 feet of a school! Or a daycare! Or a bus stop! Guess what? It doesn't make a lick of difference where they live. They can live 2005 feet away and drive the extra five feet and snatch a kid up from one those places anyway. It's a stupid law meant to make reactionary chicken little parents feel better about something that they have no control over. It does absolutely nothing to fix the problem, and just provides a false sense of security, not to mention potentially creating an even more dangerous problem (colonies of sexual predators living in parks, and offenders not registering, or not registering truthfully for instance).
Teachers are part of the problem, but they are mostly part of the problem because the larger part of the problem is parents who are unwilling to take responsibility for their children's actions, and unwilling to make their children accept responsibility for their own actions. Teachers have no choice but to cover their butts, and their school's butt. They do the best they can, some of them, anyway, but it's a lot easier to just follow policy, no matter how misguided or irrational, because that policy is written to keep things as benign as possible for the school. It's a lot easier to blame the policy than to force a teacher or administrator to be accountable for making a subjective judgment call, even if it's the correct subjective judgment call.
The world doesn't run on common sense, and sometimes, often even, that's for very good reason. "Common sense" often ignores the complexity and requirements of problems and their solutions. Kids need to be raised on it, though, IMO, and if families aren't providing that at home, I think it's incumbent upon the schools to at least provide examples of how it's supposed to work, even if it lands them in legal limbo. As a taxpayer I don't mind paying for defense from a frivolous lawsuit or two if it's a reasonable decision that's being questioned (i.e. a kid brings a bowie knife to school in his backpack with the intent of threatening another kid, and is suspended or something).
I remember being in High School and kids would give informative speeches on how to clean a gun. So they would bring their shot gun to school and clean in right in front of the class. That was back in 1990.
BRAVO!!BRAVO!!
I wish to donate all my rep to you for the bolded underlined line, that is the number one problem today!!!!
BRAVO!!BRAVO!!:notworthy:
what is wrong with zero tolerance. Honestly, do you want some teacher deciding what is safe and what isn't when it comes to weapons??? It seems unreasonable now but what if she killed a kid with the steak knife...then everyone is second guessing the school for not acting. Honestly, the schools can't win here. The only win they get is making sure everyone comes in alive and everyone leaves alive. And in this day and age that in itself is a minor miracle in some schools.
agree, but once a kid is in the school doors they are the charge of the school and the school has to make the tough decisions...like what is safe and what isn't. Where do you draw the line? Simple. You don't. You take the decision making out of it and have a zero tolerance policy and sort it out afterwords.
But black and white answers in a world full of grey aren't always the answer either, especially when kids are involved. It's the school administration's job to make hard decisions, or sometimes easy decisions. Unlike the "real world", schools largely have the ability to make up their own rules. A school's code of conduct can be broad enough to say "be nice or else", and that gives the administration a large amount of leeway when dealing with situations like this. Just like your employer can punish you for doing things that are perfectly legal, the school has that same sort of authority over it's students.
You will never make schools perfectly safe. Ever. You can make them reasonable, however. Reasonably safe, and reasonably sane. You just have to have administrators that are reasonable, and you have to have a school board that is the same.
Zero Tolerance makes ZERO sense in my opinion. Why would we want to take decision making OUT of the equation? God forbid that people make their own decisions; better that we let the government make decisions for us!! The method of "sorting it out" that you refer to has resulted in the kid being charged with a felony. Sounds like a fool-proof system to me.
well technically, as government employees, the administrators ARE the government making decisions. The difference being, they work with kids every day. They are (hopefully) trained in how to educate and handle kids. They are certainly better qualified to make decisions on a case-by-case basis than some random law that can never account for all the possible scenarios.
Either you're going to have zero tolerance, or you're going to have teachers and administrators making sometimes subjective decisions. There really isn't a whole lot of room in between.
When I was a kid, we brought chinese stars to school to throw at logs. We also brought nunchuks. This was back when the ninja thing was very popular. We played with them for a few weeks, then a letter went around to parents telling them that there was a problem with sharpened ninja toys at recess. They ended up taking them away from us, but nothing like this knee jerk response.
Although I am not a parent yet I decided a long time ago to send my kids to private school.
Although I am not a parent yet I decided a long time ago to send my kids to private school.
You know I would of agreed with you 3 years ago that teachers are the problem. Now since I'm marrying one, I can see that you have no clue. It's not their problem or fault. The problem are all those idoit parents out there that cant teach their kid right from wrong. Dead beat parents that don't take part in their child life is the problem.
A teacher has rules they have to follow. If the teacher doesn't go by the rules then they are looking for a new job. I feel sorry for anyone that becomes a teacher. It's more like a day care they school anymore. My fiance is a teacher at a private school k-8th and I worry about her safety everyday. She teaches on the south side, and there have been numerous times that she has been yelled at by kids, things thrown at her, and even threatened. How is that her fault?????
Most teachers are underpaid and under appreciated. Instead of punishing kids, they now have stupid award system. Complete crap if you ask me. I don't understand awarding the kid that does what he is suppose to, but then only being able to send a kid to the office that punches or throws something at another student.
Is that a teachers fault also??? It's the parents.... Teach your kids beliefs. Teach your kids manors. Don't rely on a teacher to do it.
I'm not laying it all on individual teachers, but teachers and administrators collectively (i.e. the NEA, school boards nationwide). Hapless school boards and administrations that are happier to make rules to hide behind instead of sticking up for the ability to do their job effectively. If my 2nd grade teacher had stuff thrown at her, she would have taken me straight to the principal's office where I would have had my backside turned a deep shade of red. It just wasn't tolerated. Today, it has to be tolerated, because teachers have been left with no recourse. Parents aren't willing to do it, and schools can't do it because discipline and respect have been either legislated or regulated out of existence.
Note, I didn't say that individual teachers are the problem. I really don't think they are. I think that the education system, but moreso the parents are the problem. Kick their rotten little hellspawn out of school if they behave like that, and report them to DHS in the process. File assault charges against the kid, and their parents by proxy. If you can't put the fear of God into the kids, put it into their parents.