BYU and the Big 12

[FDCy83]

You got to be kidding me.... Their missions last 2 years and not all their athletes go on one.... Ainge didn't go on one, McMahon didn't go on one, alot have not gone on one, but even if they did.... it's 2 years.... big wow.... College players are physically mature when they get to this level or they don't play anyway.

There is also no reason why ISU cannot recruit Mormons who serve missions before enrolling in school. And example was Kory Pence. He chose ISU over BYU. Kory served his mission in Texas and left in November, I believe after his high school graduation, but it could have been December. So he came back 2 years later, and enrolled at ISU as a 21 year old freshman. He started in January, so he got to go through spring practice. But he was older. He did not have time on his mission to run, or lift weights, though I am sure he did some, he did not work out like a D1 athlete. His most conditioning came from walking and knocking on doors.

BYU will need 2 commitments from any conference. Number 1 is no games on Sunday. Number 2 is their church has a world wide conference the first weekend on October and first weekend in April, and BYU will want be at home on those dates for almost all sports. This does not seem like a big problem to me. They may want the football game that weekend to be a Friday night game or make that their bye week. Should not be a problem.

 

[Stormin]

You are wrong.... BYU adds on average 15% of gate receipts wherever they play and sometimes more (they travel well, check the attendance at the OU game last year in Dallas).... They have a Stadium that seats 64,000 and fill it for virtually every game.... They also have the ability to expand another 25,000 seats and will probably do so in the near future (particularly if they should end up being part to one of the Big 6 Conferences).... Their facilities are outstanding and rival the best in the nation...

Their big hang up is that they won't play on Sundays whch may or may not hamper scheduling.... They also share a market with the U of Utah, but they probably have a greater following....

One of the nice things about adding BYU is that they are fairly strong in most every sport (B-Ball and Football especially) and they recruit well in the West (particularly Cali) which could prove to be a good way to kick the PAC 10 for their poaching attempts.... They also carry a very strong name in Cali with the fan base there.

This is just one person's opinion, but if BYU's quest for Independence takes off and does well, the Big 12 might not be the best suiters out there in a year or two...

And, as far as revenue contribution, they are by far the largest contributers to the MWC which is the primary reason that they are looking at Independence....

By contract, BYU has to submit it's intention on what it is going to do for 2011 to the MWC Officials by September 1.... So the Big 12's window of opportunity to grab BYU may be closing.... If the Big 12 passes, they may well be sorry in a year or two....

Oh, andif you haven't seen BYU shirts and fan parafanailia, you either haven't been looking or you haven't been in the right spot because they sell a ton of it... I live in Texas right now for part of the year and in Oregon for the other pasrt of the year and I see it everywhere.

Where would BYU go? The only viable option is the Pac 12.

BYU doesn't add enough to the Big XII. If we have learned anything from the whole conference situation, it is that just a couple "super" teams drive the whole ratings and TV revenue. With the Big XII we have Texas and Oklahoma as the "super" teams. The other teams are mainly just opponents and fillers. Adding BYU just adds another "filler" and doesn't really add revenue. And a conference really only needs a couple of "super" teams to be a desirable commodity. If you would have ALL "super" teams in a conference, they would have to play each other, beat each other up, and eventually you are just going to end up with a couple "super" teams anyway.

Continue with 10 teams. Get a coalition going with the two Kansas teams and Mizzou. Our best option is for the conference to remain as is. We have the time zones working in our favor for TV. We have a couple "super' teams. And travel is pretty reasonable for competition.

 

[jbhtexas]

Throwing out Revenue numbers in this context makes no senseat all.... its an apples ot oranges comparison...

You can take out TV revenue and compare the numbers, which I've done numerous times. With conference revenue distribution removed, presently, BYU still generates less revenue than ISU.

BYU has a TV network, a supposed huge national following, and they still can't generate more than $36,000,000 in revenue. If they come to the Big 12, with the added TV revenue, they still will be at the bottom of the conference, given the present figures. BYU can certainly do that, but in the Big 12, consistent winning seems to depend on a large athletic budget.

 

[jbhtexas]

Budget size is dictated by the need....

Not true for college athletics, where budget is driven by the revenue that can be raised. There is always a need for better facilities, equipment, coaches, assistants, staff, bigger recruiting budget, etc.

You also have to look at what is included in the budgets that you are comparing to make sure that you are comparing apples to apples....

The EADA reports are supposed to be apples to apples comparisons. Is BYU cheating on their EADA report?

 

[CyForPresident]

Interesting read, especially the comments.

Coming soon to the Big 12: BYU? : Fanblogs College Football Blog

 

[cykadelic2]

Interesting read, especially the comments.

Coming soon to the Big 12: BYU? : Fanblogs College Football Blog

For the reasons discussed in that column, BYU would be a good addition the B12 as long as Notre Dame is added with them (or maybe Arkansas). No other expansion scenario is worth it for the B12 and their network partners.

 

[poyman]

Where would BYU go? The only viable option is the Pac 12.

BYU doesn't add enough to the Big XII. If we have learned anything from the whole conference situation, it is that just a couple "super" teams drive the whole ratings and TV revenue. With the Big XII we have Texas and Oklahoma as the "super" teams. The other teams are mainly just opponents and fillers. Adding BYU just adds another "filler" and doesn't really add revenue. And a conference really only needs a couple of "super" teams to be a desirable commodity. If you would have ALL "super" teams in a conference, they would have to play each other, beat each other up, and eventually you are just going to end up with a couple "super" teams anyway.

Continue with 10 teams. Get a coalition going with the two Kansas teams and Mizzou. Our best option is for the conference to remain as is. We have the time zones working in our favor for TV. We have a couple "super' teams. And travel is pretty reasonable for competition.

I say grab BYU now and pair them with Colorado in 2011 and then take a few months and try to find a suitable 12th team/program for 2012.

Your assertion that BYU would eat more than they contribute is just doesn't hold water.... That is why they are looking to go Indy to start with (they are currently the Texas of the MWC).... If they were in the Big 12 today they would currently have the 4th largest stadium in the Big 12 with a steady string of sellouts (with attendane in the top 3 or 4 in the conference).... They have a very active fan base and travel as well as most top end universities in the country. They compete well in all sports (including football.... just ask Oklahoma, Texas, Kansas State and TAM).... They also have 5 of the 10 biggest grossing games that ESPN has shown.... To say that they don't draw that well is just an uninformed statement (I'm sorry).

It would be crazy not to grab them today.... If they go Indy and find out that they can do pretty well in that format (since they already have the technology) then they may be less excited about an invite in the future. You claim that the PAC 12 would be the only potential suiters to worry about.... Wrong again, the Big 10 is everybit as close to them as the Big 12, why wouldn't they go after them and match them with either Mizzou or Nebraska?

 

[poyman]

You can take out TV revenue and compare the numbers, which I've done numerous times. With conference revenue distribution removed, presently, BYU still generates less revenue than ISU.

BYU has a TV network, a supposed huge national following, and they still can't generate more than $36,000,000 in revenue. If they come to the Big 12, with the added TV revenue, they still will be at the bottom of the conference, given the present figures. BYU can certainly do that, but in the Big 12, consistent winning seems to depend on a large athletic budget.

I don't know where you get your numbers and what assumptions that you are using... If you have worked it out, perhaps you would be willing to show your worksheets??? Your statements simply don't pass the smell test in my book. I would be willing to bet alot of money that if you subtract out TV revenue from all prgrams that BYU doesn't show better than ISU or Baylor...

And, when you compare athletic budgets, not all budget processes are the same (some athletic budgets may include expenses that in other school budgets they are assigned to another unreported department.... BYU is a private institution, I am betting that they don't have the same reporting requirements as others (just like privately held companies).... Now I don't know that to be the case, but I would be surprised if it wasn't.

 

[poyman]

Not true for college athletics, where budget is driven by the revenue that can be raised. There is always a need for better facilities, equipment, coaches, assistants, staff, bigger recruiting budget, etc.



The EADA reports are supposed to be apples to apples comparisons. Is BYU cheating on their EADA report?

Do me a favor and compare BYUs facilities with ISU's or any other program in the B12..... Then tell me how their budget is inferior... The proof is in the pudding.... Their Stadium would be the 4th largest in our conference (it seats 64,000 and it's running a continuous streak of sell outs... plus they are talking about adding an additional 25,000 seats).... The practice facilities compare with the best in the nation.... Their Basketball arena seats over 20,000.... And both their Football and Basketball programs are perenial top 25 performers. They travel extremely well (most schools have reported an uptick in gate receipts to normal games of upwards from a plus 15%.

The B12 needs to grab these guys before they can't...

 

[jbhtexas]

Do me a favor and compare BYUs facilities with ISU's or any other program in the B12..... Then tell me how their budget is inferior... The proof is in the pudding

Every school in the Big 12 has facilities. It's rather irrelevant to the budget discussion.

In evaluating budget, I am using an objective standard, the athletic budget as reported to the Federal governments's EADA office. BYU is bringing in about $36,000,000, and spending about the same. It is what it is. Unless, as I said before, BYU is really making alot more, and doctoring their report.

 

[trajanJ]

If BYU would join the Big 12 it would be a very good reason for their big backers to pony up. They would probably add seats and raise quite a bit of money if they could get in a BCS conference. Sure right now their budget isn't all that, but they are in the Freakin Mountain West. If ISU would be in the Mountain West what would their budget be? If BYU joined the Big 12 it wouldn't surprise me at all if their budget would end up higher than ISU and Baylor.

Now that it looks like CU is staying another year and screwing up the entire thing we should take BYU to replace Nebraska and keep the divisions another year while we try to talk Arkansas into moving over with Jerry Jones help.

 

[WalkingCY]

I say grab BYU now and pair them with Colorado in 2011 and then take a few months and try to find a suitable 12th team/program for 2012.

Your assertion that BYU would eat more than they contribute is just doesn't hold water.... That is why they are looking to go Indy to start with (they are currently the Texas of the MWC).... If they were in the Big 12 today they would currently have the 4th largest stadium in the Big 12 with a steady string of sellouts (with attendane in the top 3 or 4 in the conference).... They have a very active fan base and travel as well as most top end universities in the country. They compete well in all sports (including football.... just ask Oklahoma, Texas, Kansas State and TAM).... They also have 5 of the 10 biggest grossing games that ESPN has shown.... To say that they don't draw that well is just an uninformed statement (I'm sorry).

It would be crazy not to grab them today.... If they go Indy and find out that they can do pretty well in that format (since they already have the technology) then they may be less excited about an invite in the future. You claim that the PAC 12 would be the only potential suiters to worry about.... Wrong again, the Big 10 is everybit as close to them as the Big 12, why wouldn't they go after them and match them with either Mizzou or Nebraska?

I really agree here. I think the conference needs to be pro-active and go get BYU. Imagine their following when they are in a BCS Conference....it will be huge for them. They have a great stadium, and following now IMO, and that is with lackluster schools/population base thats currently involed with them. They do have some "old" history of success too. I think that is important as well...keeps their following strong. Then, in 2012 we need to get someone else as well, Jerry Jones is really after Arkansas to join again and rumor has it that their fanbase is somewhat split on getting involved with their old SWAC brethern and the current SEC.

Everything really hinges on this so-called new Network TV contract that we are getting. Especially on ever getting Arkansas in the future. If we have an amazing new contract that actually happend, it would be enticing to the Razorbacks. The Big 12 NEEDS to be proactive....and it starts with BYU.

Also, I understand some posts on here about the 10 members "Big 12" and the $$ situation is better for ISU, and that is nice for us. But I am talking long-term here....and I would rather sacrafice a couple extra millions if it meant that our conference stays together for another 100 years.....and I just think that 12 members would keep that going. We need a title game....and that goes away with 10.... again, we as a conference need to be proactive. (If this 10 fails....or is shown in the media as being "weaker" it really won't help our conference out.....it will be easy for Texas to bail and go Indy at any time.... I think if we can get new members, it can be business as usual for the Big 12.)

 

[jbhtexas]

I don't know where you get your numbers and what assumptions that you are using... If you have worked it out, perhaps you would be willing to show your worksheets??? Your statements simply don't pass the smell test in my book. I would be willing to bet alot of money that if you subtract out TV revenue from all prgrams that BYU doesn't show better than ISU or Baylor...

You could use the CF search function, or just browse the earlier posts in this thread, but for your convenience:

Conference revenue plays a large part in budget, and the large majority of TV revenue comes from the conference revenue distribution. So removing conference revenue should provide a good picture of a school's ability to generate revenue from their fan base, donors, endowments, advertising, marketing, etc.

As of today, From Equity in Athletics Data Analysis Cutting Tool Website
Line 14 Grand Total Revenue

BYU: $35,628,193
Baylor: $48,545,254
ISU: $45,813,189
UT: $138,459,149 (just for fun)

From Nebraska drops to eighth in Big 12 revenue - Omaha.com.
Big 12 Conference Revenue sharing:
Baylor: $9.1 million
ISU: $8.9 million
UT: $11.8 million

Baylor: $48.5 million - $9.1 million = $39.4 million
ISU: $45.8 million - $8.9 million = $36.9 million
UT: $138.5 million - $11.8 million = $126.7 million

Before taking out MWC revenue, ISU and Baylor still generate more revenue than BYU. BYU makes about $2-4 million in revenue from the MWC (depending what you read). If we used the lower end (which favors BYU), that would put their non-conference revenue at about $34 million. BYU also has its own TV network. That should be subtracted out as well, but I don't have a link for it. Also, I don't have info on what TV revenue is generated for ISU and Baylor outside of conference, but it is likely very small. I assume these latter items are probably a wash.

These are my numbers, sources, and assumptions. You may have access to better data, so I look forward to seeing your calculations showing that BYU generates more than ISU and Baylor after conference revenue and TV revenue is taken out.

And, when you compare athletic budgets, not all budget processes are the same (some athletic budgets may include expenses that in other school budgets they are assigned to another unreported department.... BYU is a private institution, I am betting that they don't have the same reporting requirements as others (just like privately held companies).... Now I don't know that to be the case, but I would be surprised if it wasn't.

Baylor is a private institution as well. The EADA report is pretty straightforward. BYU is a member of the NCAA, which is why they have to fill out the EADA report. Either the numbers are accurate, or BYU is cheating on the report.

 

[trajanJ]

JBH I see your point, but have you considered how much more money BYU could raise if they were in a real conference? I could see them having no problem raising an extra 10 mill which would put them with the rest of the conference. And it wouldn't shock me if they could raise a lot more than that. $35 mill is actually pretty impressive in the Mountain West. There's probably several Big 12 schools that couldn't do that if they were in that conference.

 

[jbhtexas]

JBH I see your point, but have you considered how much more money BYU could raise if they were in a real conference?

I don't know how much more BYU could raise if they were in a "real" conference. TCU is in the MWC, has 1/4 the enrollment of BYU, a much smaller chuch denomination backing them, and has a budget of $46 million. If BYU is this team with history and national prominence/following, as suggested by many here, why can't raise that kind of money now?

Conference expansion is about money. If BYU cannot increase the revenue share of the other Big 12 teams, I don't see them being asked to join the conference, unless they are part of a package deal with more lucrative team. Nice facilities, 64,000 in the seats for FB, and LDS church affiliation don't mean anything if they don't translate to revenue for the conference.