Big 12 COY
- Thread starter cy2016
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I guess I'm one of those that thinks just winning the conference championship shouldn't automatically result in coach of the year. Shoot Self could win the next 20 conference championships so do we just attach coach of the year to the trophy?
I'm more impressed with a coach who is picked to finish 8 or 9th and ends up 2nd or possible 3rd. With that being said I think Prohm didn't have the consistent to be coach of the year this year but should be in the discussion. Especially if we win out.
I'm more impressed with a coach who is picked to finish 8 or 9th and ends up 2nd or possible 3rd. With that being said I think Prohm didn't have the consistent to be coach of the year this year but should be in the discussion. Especially if we win out.
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Since 2013 his recruiting class ranking averages 6th. His end of year ranking is 5.25. That doesn't jump out as superior coaching.
For reference, you all have only had 2 top 40 recruiting classes. 2016 was 39th, and 2013 was 30th. Yet you've finished 17th, 12th, 17th over that same period.
Huggs has only had 1 recruiting class in the top 40. 2013 it was 20th. Over that same period he's had teams finish 14th and 20th.
I'm not making a pick for the better coach as much as I'm saying you need to factor in the quality of the athletes they're coaching. Self has won 13 conference championships in a row, definitely impressive. I'll bet over that same period he's had a significantly higher recruiting class than anyone in the Big 12....he should be winning the conference.
Note: I was too lazy to try and figure out who lost players early. Similarly I couldn't find recruiting class rankings below 40, etc.
The CBB media would **** their pants if Self didn't win. I'm not of the school of thought that says if you win a championship, you should win COY, but Self probably deserves it this year. Not his best roster, Lucas is their best big man, and they won the conference comfortably. The Big 12 is absolutely loaded when it comes to head coaching.
He recruited those kids. I understand they're a blue blood, but he also is head and shoulders above many for his roster management. It's not easy coaching 5 star kids, that are only on campus for one year.
KU doesn't have the abundance of talent that they've had in some previous years. Self's management, and ability to win games with that front court, is reason enough to give him the award.
If Self would win the conference without a McD AA it would be more impressive. Give Prohm those guys and it would be interesting.
He did get Forte back (who missed last season) and Evans (who missed like half of last season). But, their improvement has been impressive.
Jeffrey Carroll from OSU should get most improved player hands down.
Last year - 8.2ppg, 4.0rpg, and 33% from three.
This year - 17.3ppg, 6.6rpg, and 43% from three.
Mason will win POTY and Self will win COTY. Honestly, I think Underwood and Dixon were better this year than Self, considering the 1-year turnarounds for both OSU and TCU. Not easy to change the culture and the mentality of both teams in that short a time.
Are you seriously telling me how hard it is to coach 5* kids? If they're such a burden why doesn't he recruit 3*s and 4*s? And roster management? I'm sure he frets every time he looks down his bench and says which 5* do I want to put in.for the 5* I'm sitting. KU doesn't have the abundance of talent they normally do? Their last four classes were ranked 6, 7, 9, and 2. And if they don't have the talent they normally do wouldn't that be a knock on the coach? I mean if you're going to give him credit when he recruits talent shouldn't he take the blame when he doesn't? If you want to include recruiting in COY that's fine, just don't tell me how tough he has it.
By the way, if recruiting is factored into COY, KU will have to finish 3rd or 4th in the conference for him not to win because they are that far ahead in recruiting.
As good as Kansas is in the Win/Loss column, Self has left much to be desired this year. There are a number of issues with this team and sure they have played well while dealing with distractions, but the distractions are an extension of the lessons he's failing to teach. As coach, he needs to be judged on what the team is doing off the court as well.
Recruiting rankings don't mean ****. Why does that matter? Diallo was top ten last year, he sucked. Cliff Alexander was top ten, he was nothing special. Udoka Azubuike, injured.
He has Josh Jackson, a one n done stud, but after that, what else? Frank Mason, committed to Towson before KU. Grahm, committed to Appalachian St. Bragg, Vick and Svi, role players. Landen Lucas, ranked in the mid 200's out of high school. That's literally his whole team.
Out of curiosity, who's your vote go to?
I honestly think Baylor has been as talented as any team in the league for quite a while. They don't have the one and dones KU gets but they always have a cupboard full of tall lengthy pogo stick players that stick around multiple years. Self is a very good coach of the talent he gets though, he's as good as there is all around.
There are one and dones who make an impact and help win championships, but there are a lot more who really accomplish very little in college basketball. Guys like Mason, Niang and Morris who contribute 3-4 years and are All American level by their junior or senior year are the most valuable players in college hoops, they get you the AA production but are around long enough to be real leaders.
I hate that people bring up the 13 titles when talking about Bill Self this year. He should only be judged on this season.
Here's how I'd rank em:
1. Underwood
2. Self
3. Prohm
4. Drew
5. Dixon
Dixon would have been a lot higher a couple of weeks ago. Prohm's end of the year outweighs Drew/Dixon first half of the year. I'd be fine with either Self or Underwood.
1. Underwood
2. Self
3. Prohm
4. Drew
5. Dixon
Dixon would have been a lot higher a couple of weeks ago. Prohm's end of the year outweighs Drew/Dixon first half of the year. I'd be fine with either Self or Underwood.
I don't know who I'd give my vote to, but I'm surprised Huggins hasn't been mentioned yet. I hate his style of play, but he's sitting tied for second without a real star on his team.
Had they not collapsed at Kansas, his name would surely be mentioned. I almost wonder had they lost in "normal" fashion versus having the meltdown if he wouldn't be getting more notice.
Had they not collapsed at Kansas, his name would surely be mentioned. I almost wonder had they lost in "normal" fashion versus having the meltdown if he wouldn't be getting more notice.
As I said in my first post I wasn't making a pick just pointing out that, to those whom much is given, much is expected.
I think I understand your pick. In post #25 you gave him credit for recruiting the players he has. In post #32 you're giving him credit because of the job he did with players who "sucked", and were "nothing special", etc.
Given your willingness to dole out credit to him for opposite sides of the same point it seems you had him as a shoo-in.
It's not "coach of the last 13 years". If it were "coach of the last 13 years", that would certainly go to Self.
It's coach of the year. And it doesn't always go to the coach with the most conference wins in the year.
Self will win COY but shouldn't where you were predicted to finish and how you finish matter? I'm not sure where OSU was predicted to finish but I am pretty sure they will finish well above that.
Here's where the coaches thought they would land:
http://www.big12sports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=10410&ATCLID=211208853
2016-17 Big 12 Preseason Poll
Team (First-place votes) Points
1. Kansas (9)* 81
2. West Virginia 65
3. Texas 59
4. Iowa State (1) 56
5. Baylor 53
6. Oklahoma 40
7. Oklahoma State 32
Texas Tech 32
9. Kansas State 20
10. TCU 12
Going by that, the overachievers are OSU, TCU and (slightly) ISU and Baylor. Texas and OU vastly underachieved (but not sure what the coaches were thinking on those teams as they are both crazy young).