Adding Sports?

[2speedy1]

Okay, so I get it.

I know full well that the storyline about being unable to compete as a “cold weather” school was complete hoo haw. All you had to do even back then was look at all the successful schools at similar—or even more northerly—parallels to see that. Schools like Creighton, Nebraska, Notre Dame…even Minnesota has cranked out some good players over the years.

At the time, it was all about the money. And balancing scholarships due to Title IX.

Well, we have more money now. A lot more money than when that decision was made. And with CyTown becoming a reality, perhaps it’s time to look into the relatively near future.

Speaking as a guy who spent his fair share of time sitting in the rickety old Cap Timm bleachers watching a buddy play…just how much money does it take to bring baseball back?

And…what women’s sport do we add to balance?

My first guess would be rowing or lacrosse…but I’m certainly no expert. Not sure if fencing would offer enough scholarship opportunities.

After all, many of the women’s sports are being successful, some wildly so. Why not one more?

First...It was said a couple years ago that we are ahead on womens sports. That we could add a mens sport and still not have a title 9 issue. We currently have too many womens sports vs mens...but title 9 only cares that you have enough womens, not the other way around, or that it is balanced both ways.

I would think if they needed to bring a womens sport, crew/rowing seems to be the one everyone uses for that. I think Iowa claims something like 60 scholarships for that alone. They actually had to limit it because so many schools were claiming 100+ on the team even though they would not compete. Rowing seems to be the sport everyone is using for title 9 balancing. But again, we dont have the issue.

I mentioned this a couple years ago and was roasted for it. I actually think JP has said there is no desire to add Baseball back. And frankly I am not sure there is a push to add anything.

Competing in Baseball as a northern school is hard, I am one that believes College baseball and Softball seasons should be moved back, to start later, or in the summer. Everyone says that cant happen because of no sports in the summer. But they already play and practice many sports in the summer, including playoffs of those sports and starting fall sports in the summer. I really am surprised the northern schools have not petitioned to change the season so they can have games at home throughout the season rather than right at the end.

Finally for baseball I think the only way in the current state that ISU could ever bring it back would be to build a small baseball specific covered field, but I dont ever see that happening.

Nipro Hachiko Dome - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Crew/rowing is one that could be added, would there be more of a reason or less after our recent tragedy?
Hockey has been one that people have wanted, same thing, more or less likely after the recent events?
Baseball, could we use, Pinnacle Park? Upgrade Capp Tim? Build a New field/dome? Any actual desire?
Beach volleyball? Several schools around the country have built indoor specific venues/facilities adding this
Womens wrestling, will we be the next P5 to add this?
etc etc.

I think the question with the above is..if we do add another womens sport, do we get far enough behind in Mens that we do need to add something. I doubt it. But I do think there is more of a chance we add one of the above womens sports, and more likely than any of the mens.

 

[psycln11]

Keep dreaming! It's NEVER going to happen!! Yes, we have more money, but we are also spending more money on coaches, facility upgrades, etc.

In this day and age, most universities are dropping sports, not adding them!

 

[VeloClone]

I was sad to see BB go and sad to see ISU Baseball greats like Gary Thompson have to see it go. But now that it is gone I see why it had to go and I don't pine for it to be back. Until the college baseball season moves to the late spring/summer it won't be feasible in the north.

They should add W wrestling if they add anything and maybe hockey if they feel the need to add sports, but I doubt it will be happening any time soon.

 

[AuH2O]

I'm not sure why people would want to add sports. They will all lose money, so why divert it from FB and MBB, where it actually has a shot at ROI?

The argument would be to provide another entertainment option for students, but I don't think live sporting events, especially in something other than FB and BB are very high on anyone's list.

And I am a baseball diehard. I used to go to ISU baseball games towards the end of the program. It was usually me, a buddy, and maybe like a couple friends or girlfriends of a few players. Maybe some parents for the few local guys. It's not hyperbole to say that little league games are attended better.

I don't know what hockey is like at ISU now, but back in the day there were a decent number of people that would go to the club games, but it wasn't that many, and it was a lot more of a party/rowdy atmosphere that would be tough to pull off in Hilton at an NCAA sanctioned event.

 

[AuH2O]

Agree. More in state students. What high schools in Iowa have rowing or lacrosse?

Neighbor went to U of I and is on scholly for rowing. Never competitively rowed before going there. I assume rowing is the cheapest way to stockpile women's sports scholarships.

 

[dafarmer]

Bowling,

 

[2speedy1]

Neighbor went to U of I and is on scholly for rowing. Never competitively rowed before going there. I assume rowing is the cheapest way to stockpile women's sports scholarships.

It is...several schools are under investigation for cooking the numbers. I think Iowa might be on that list, but cant remember. Read an article a while back that a lot of schools are adding it to load up on womens scholarships. Some schools over 100 members even though half never actually compete. They recruit women around campus and basically give them scholarships to fulfill their Title 9 requirements. Then claim huge numbers on reports to balance.

They are planning to or have already started to limit the number of scholarships for rowing because of this I believe. I think it is/going to be around 60ish if I remember right but not sure.

Cant find the exact article but here are a couple similar on the subject:

Not All Sports Are Created Equal, The Truth Behind Women’s Rowing and how it Saves Football | 2aDays News

When I was offered admission at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the first email I received on my new school email account had a subject

www.2adays.com

UW women’s rowing-team numbers inflated, avoiding Title IX scrutiny

Despite students never trying out for women’s rowing, the UW counted them on the team in its report to the Department of Education for several years.

www.seattletimes.com

 

[stateofmind]

Has anyone answered the question asked about cost?

I’d say less than 1.5 million per year… maybe 2 max. But there are a ton of variables.

The up front cost is what would hurt.

I talked to somebody that would know this last week and the response is that baseball will "never" happen. They said we would have to invest around $60M just to get the facilities in place. I didn't ask about the annual cost to run a non-revenue sport like baseball.

Like so many others have said, why take away from the real revenue sports that will keep us viable than to take that money and put it into this, just because all other Big XII teams have it?

 

[IASTATE07]

Agree. More in state students. What high schools in Iowa have rowing or lacrosse?

Somebody is apparently playing lacrosse in Southern Iowa of all places. Dunham's in Ottumwa and both Ottumwa and Centerville Wal-Marts sell equipment. I don't know a single kid that plays it.

 

[BigTurk]

First...It was said a couple years ago that we are ahead on womens sports. That we could add a mens sport and still not have a title 9 issue. We currently have too many womens sports vs mens...but title 9 only cares that you have enough womens, not the other way around, or that it is balanced both ways.

I would think if they needed to bring a womens sport, crew/rowing seems to be the one everyone uses for that. I think Iowa claims something like 60 scholarships for that alone. They actually had to limit it because so many schools were claiming 100+ on the team even though they would not compete. Rowing seems to be the sport everyone is using for title 9 balancing. But again, we dont have the issue.

I mentioned this a couple years ago and was roasted for it. I actually think JP has said there is no desire to add Baseball back. And frankly I am not sure there is a push to add anything.

Competing in Baseball as a northern school is hard, I am one that believes College baseball and Softball seasons should be moved back, to start later, or in the summer. Everyone says that cant happen because of no sports in the summer. But they already play and practice many sports in the summer, including playoffs of those sports and starting fall sports in the summer. I really am surprised the northern schools have not petitioned to change the season so they can have games at home throughout the season rather than right at the end.

Finally for baseball I think the only way in the current state that ISU could ever bring it back would be to build a small baseball specific covered field, but I dont ever see that happening.

Nipro Hachiko Dome - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Crew/rowing is one that could be added, would there be more of a reason or less after our recent tragedy?
Hockey has been one that people have wanted, same thing, more or less likely after the recent events?
Baseball, could we use, Pinnacle Park? Upgrade Capp Tim? Build a New field/dome? Any actual desire?
Beach volleyball? Several schools around the country have built indoor specific venues/facilities adding this
Womens wrestling, will we be the next P5 to add this?
etc etc.

I think the question with the above is..if we do add another womens sport, do we get far enough behind in Mens that we do need to add something. I doubt it. But I do think there is more of a chance we add one of the above womens sports, and more likely than any of the mens.

I am really surprised someone hasn't pulled the trigger on an indoor softball/baseball field. Say someone in the city of Ames built one, leased it to ISU, but then also host softball/baseball tournaments during February and March it could attract a lot of visitors to the city. Maybe the numbers don't work April-January.

 

[I@ST1]

I talked to somebody that would know this last week and the response is that baseball will "never" happen. They said we would have to invest around $60M just to get the facilities in place. I didn't ask about the annual cost to run a non-revenue sport like baseball.

Like so many others have said, why take away from the real revenue sports that will keep us viable than to take that money and put it into this, just because all other Big XII teams have it?

Agree there with the bold.

I was just trying to answer the question that was asked in the OP. I possibly way underestimated the annual cost too.

Thank you for giving an amount and not just complain.

 

[CyGuy5]

Also the only school where there's snow on the ground until the first of April in a lot of years, probably related.

You aren’t wrong, but I play baseball at an NAIA school (which is why I am super biased) even farther north. ISU wouldnt play at home until snow is gone anyways

 

[1UNI2ISU]

You aren’t wrong, but I play baseball at an NAIA school (which is why I am super biased) even farther north. ISU wouldnt play at home until snow is gone anyways

That's why I'm floored NDSU and SDDU still have baseball. It's amazingly expensive to ship your entire program to Florida or Arizona or California for 6 weeks every year.

 

[2speedy1]

I am really surprised someone hasn't pulled the trigger on an indoor softball/baseball field. Say someone in the city of Ames built one, leased it to ISU, but then also host softball/baseball tournaments during February and March it could attract a lot of visitors to the city. Maybe the numbers don't work April-January.

Well I know for a fact that AAU ETC has softball tournaments in the UNI Dome. It seems like ISU softball plays there too. It seems like it is too small for that, but I dont know. I am sure it is too small for Baseball.

But like you said, there is a way to do it if you utilized it for other things. Really though the best would be if they actually moved the seasons back so they dont start in Feb. Really in todays College atmosphere there would be no reason they couldnt have it start in April Etc. If that were the case I am sure it would be more feasible for it to actually come back, and be cheaper too.

 

[cyclone13]

Agree there with the bold.

I was just trying to answer the question that was asked in the OP. I possibly way underestimated the annual cost too.

Thank you for giving an amount and not just complain.

These are the salaries for some of the baseball coaches in the area.

Rick Heller (Iowa's baseball coach) has a total 341k

Contract extension details for 9 Iowa coaches released

The Gazette received contract details for all nine head coaches who recently signed extensions via open records requests as well as the salary for new Iowa football director of player development Jason Manson.

www.thegazette.com

Dan Fitzgerald (KU)
He signed a six-year contract that, a source told the Journal-World, will pay him a base salary of $3.16 million, beginning with $500,000 in Year 1 and escalating to $540,000 in Year 6.

KU Sports

As someone who has recruited across the Midwest for the better part of two decades, Dan Fitzgerald has logged plenty of miles in Kansas. In fact, as he joked, the longtime baseball coach has driven by the Interstate 70 exits for Lawrence more times than most people who live in the city. “Someone...

www2.kusports.com

Pete Hughes (KSU)
Started at $375k in 2018. His contract extension (the article is behind the paywall) pays him $535k/year and increased annually by $25k until he reaches $635k

Kansas State turns to Pete Hughes to rebuild baseball program

Kansas State athletic director Gene Taylor was looking for someone with a track record of building baseball programs. He believes he found that person in Pete Hughes. Taylor on Friday announced H…

www.cjonline.com

Tyler Oakes (NDSU) - 62k in 2021

Bison football program has biggest salary pool for coaches among ND colleges

UND's hockey program, with a three-person staff, has highest average salary among Division I coaches in North Dakota

www.inforum.com

 

[Cyclone Pfan]

For that type of money I’d much rather see us build something like the McLeod Center that gets used by volleyball, gymnastics, and wrestling. All would still use Hilton for an event that would draw 10,000+.

How about a 20k seat Hilton 2.0 and demoting the current Hilton to Gymnastics, wrestling, and Volleyball?

 

[alarson]

How about a 20k seat Hilton 2.0 and demoting the current Hilton to Gymnastics, wrestling, and Volleyball?

You know where ISU has a spare 300 million (likely on the low end) laying around, just for that new arena?

 

[Cybone]

Hypothetically, how competitive would ISU hockey be if it became a varsity sport?

i have been to Denver Pioneers games and they were awesome. Nothing at all like the hockey enjoyed while at ISU, but just curious.

 

[Candide]

Add Men's lacrosse when weed is legal.

 

[ISUTex]

Neighbor went to U of I and is on scholly for rowing. Never competitively rowed before going there. I assume rowing is the cheapest way to stockpile women's sports scholarships.

You're ******* rowing. My son could row when he was 4. Are you saying anyone could do it?