Goals for MBB program-long term

[CyinCo]

Johnson was a Morgan recruit but he chose to play for McDermott. He could have told Johnson to take a hike like he did with Westbrook but he kept him on. I consider him a McDermott recruit. So that makes 5 from 2006, 2 from 2007, and likely one from 2008 if the rumors are true. Plus, Morgan was not involved in recruiting Dunson at all so you are wrong there. Marsden chose to play for McD so it really doesn't matter who recruited him.

Regardless the problem this season is not with the guys that left at the end of 2006. There only would have been four Morgan guys left this year, Marsden, Tags, Evanovich, and Degand.

I agree that we need to get to the point where we lose a guy or two at the end of the bench every year. I think that's healthy. Not everybody can be good enough to play.

However, my count is Degand, Stinson, Blalock, Carr, Tags, and Evanovich that left after Morgan. McD's guys that left were CJ, Wesley, Taylor, McIntosh, Dodie, Brister, Vette and Marsden, although we can call him a wash and not count him. So that's 6 for Wayne-O and 7 for McD. Even if we didn't count both Marsden and CJ it would be evens.

I can't say I agree. Those players may have agreed to stay on with McD, but they weren't recruited, primarily anyway, by McD. I might be wrong on Dunson, but I thought he also was a Morgan kid that decided to still sign even with the coaching change. The 2007 class was McD's first class entirely recruited by him and his staff. The 2006 class was a split of some players recruited by Morgan's staff and McD's staff at the last minute.

About a year ago, I took a different job. When I got to that company, 4 months after I was hired, they sold out to a big corporate company that I had no interest in working for. Despite that, I still continued to work that job for another 4 months because A) I was already there so why not give it a chance and B) I could always spend time looking for something else while I'm being paid. I decided I didn't want to be there any longer so I found something else and left.

I tell you that story, which is true, because I see that being a similar situation to the players that stayed on with McD but were recruited by Morgan. They were Morgan's guys even if they stayed on with McD. I can't attribute their leaving to McD. If you do, we'll just need to agree to disagree.

 

[CloneIce]

Beat teams like Drake, Hawaii, and SDSU every year.

That would be a good freaking start.

Honestly, we should be able to be an NCAA tourney team 2-3 years out of 5, with at least one of those seasons being a top level Big 12 team in the top 4 in conference. There will always be some rebuilding years here and there as players graduate.

 

[cyco2000]

I can't say I agree. Those players may have agreed to stay on with McD, but they weren't recruited, primarily anyway, by McD. I might be wrong on Dunson, but I thought he also was a Morgan kid that decided to still sign even with the coaching change. The 2007 class was McD's first class entirely recruited by him and his staff. The 2006 class was a split of some players recruited by Morgan's staff and McD's staff at the last minute.

About a year ago, I took a different job. When I got to that company, 4 months after I was hired,they sold out to a big corporate company that I had no interest in working for. Despite that, I still continued to work that job for another 4 months because A) I was already there so why not give it a chance and B) I could always spend time looking for something else while I'm being paid. I decided I didn't want to be there any longer so I found something else and left.

I tell you that story, which is true, because I see that being a similar situation to the players that stayed on with McD but were recruited by Morgan. They were Morgan's guys even if they stayed on with McD. I can't attribute their leaving to McD. If you do, we'll just need to agree to disagree.

So, that new company was unable to convince you to stay on board? They didn't have any say in you staying or leaving?

 

[CloneIce]

I agree. Beat the teams you are supposed to beat. At the same time, we as fans have to be patient.

How patient? Seriously? I believe we have been quite patient already these past 3 years, considering we fired a coach to hire a guy who has not yet equaled the worst season of his fired predecessor.

Our coach is in the midst of a 9-year contract, for some odd reason. I think we can all agree that it should not take longer than 5-6 years to get this program back to his winning ways. If he is going to get it done, it will happen in the next couple years. Any longer than that is just a waste of time.

 

[CysDoc]

How patient? Seriously? I believe we have been quite patient already these past 3 years, considering we fired a coach to hire a guy who has not yet equaled the worst season of his fired predecessor.

Our coach is in the midst of a 9-year contract, for some odd reason. I think we can all agree that it should not take longer than 5-6 years to get this program back to his winning ways. If he is going to get it done, it will happen in the next couple years. Any longer than that is just a waste of time.

I agree. I'd say if after year 5 we are still argueing about where its talent or coaching why we aren't succeeding, then the coach needs to go.

 

[CyinCo]

So, that new company was unable to convince you to stay on board? They didn't have any say in you staying or leaving?

They tried to convince me stay. I left on my own decision. I was not forced out. They even gave me a hefty raise. The fact was, I went to the first company that they purchased because they were small, privately held, and focused on local projects. I had worked for a large corporate company before and I was less-than-excited to do so again. But I gave them a chance. Maybe they could impress me somehow and I'd stay. But they didn't.

 

[cyco2000]

They tried to convince me stay. I left on my own decision. I was not forced out. They even gave me a hefty raise. The fact was, I went to the first company that they purchased because they were small, privately held, and focused on local projects. I had worked for a large corporate company before and I was less-than-excited to do so again. But I gave them a chance. Maybe they could impress me somehow and I'd stay. But they didn't.

So their "style of play" didn't suit your needs. You wanted a more "up tempo" type of company, and didn't want a large company coming in and putting the brakes on the style of work you wanted to do. Do you feel that a lot of the big time players, such as you, want to work in a structured, corporate environment; or a company that focuses on individual talent and gives players a chance to do what they do best?

 

[cycloneboogie]

I was curious what people had as a goal for our MBB program in terms of year in year out production.

Does anyone truely think ISU can be a basketball powerhouse with consistant Elite Eight teams with some Final 4 or National Champ teams mixed in?

For arguement sake, in the average 10 years span, how many tourney teams, Sweet 16, EE and FF teams and NC if you want to throw those in?

Every Season

1. Beat instate rivals (Drake, UNI, IOWA)
2. Win all home games
3. Win most if not all away games
4. Win in season conference
5. Win Big 12 conference tourney
6. NCAA--take one game at a time
7. Win NC

High expectations, but not a bad check list either....

 

[Wesley]

Always beat SDSU at home. Only lose one non conf game a year.

 

[CysDoc]

Every Season

1. Beat instate rivals (Drake, UNI, IOWA)
2. Win all home games
3. Win most if not all away games
4. Win in season conference
5. Win Big 12 conference tourney
6. NCAA--take one game at a time
7. Win NC

High expectations, but not a bad check list either....

I am amazed it took someone this long to write they expect a NC on a site called Cyclone FANATIC.

 

[cycloneboogie]

I am amazed it took someone this long to write they expect a NC on a site called Cyclone FANATIC.

My bad, I guess I went about it as goals to follow or check list for the Mbball team. Not expectations.

 

[BryceC]

I can't say I agree. Those players may have agreed to stay on with McD, but they weren't recruited, primarily anyway, by McD. I might be wrong on Dunson, but I thought he also was a Morgan kid that decided to still sign even with the coaching change. The 2007 class was McD's first class entirely recruited by him and his staff. The 2006 class was a split of some players recruited by Morgan's staff and McD's staff at the last minute.

About a year ago, I took a different job. When I got to that company, 4 months after I was hired, they sold out to a big corporate company that I had no interest in working for. Despite that, I still continued to work that job for another 4 months because A) I was already there so why not give it a chance and B) I could always spend time looking for something else while I'm being paid. I decided I didn't want to be there any longer so I found something else and left.

I tell you that story, which is true, because I see that being a similar situation to the players that stayed on with McD but were recruited by Morgan. They were Morgan's guys even if they stayed on with McD. I can't attribute their leaving to McD. If you do, we'll just need to agree to disagree.

I see your point. Maybe those two guys shouldn't be put on McDermott, but I see no reason why they should be put Morgan since they left a year or two after he did.

We didn't get involved with Dodie until McD came on board. That is a fact. The only player recruited in the 2006 class that Morgan even had a hand in was CJ.

 

[CyinCo]

So their "style of play" didn't suit your needs. You wanted a more "up tempo" type of company, and didn't want a large company coming in and putting the brakes on the style of work you wanted to do. Do you feel that a lot of the big time players, such as you, want to work in a structured, corporate environment; or a company that focuses on individual talent and gives players a chance to do what they do best?

I agree somewhat. Their "Style of Play" definitely wasn't what I wanted. But it was totally a matter of preference for each employee. It wasn't what I was looking for. They weren't the company I hired on with. I gave it a chance. I didn't like it. I left.

 

[CyinCo]

I see your point. Maybe those two guys shouldn't be put on McDermott, but I see no reason why they should be put Morgan since they left a year or two after he did.

We didn't get involved with Dodie until McD came on board. That is a fact. The only player recruited in the 2006 class that Morgan even had a hand in was CJ.

Fair enough.

 

[cyco2000]

I agree somewhat. Their "Style of Play" definitely wasn't what I wanted. But it was totally a matter of preference for each employee. It wasn't what I was looking for. They weren't the company I hired on with. I gave it a chance. I didn't like it. I left.

I definitely see what you're saying.

I'm just trying to fit in by twisting your words into something that I'd like you to say. :wink:

 

[CloneIce]

I see your point. Maybe those two guys shouldn't be put on McDermott, but I see no reason why they should be put Morgan since they left a year or two after he did.

We didn't get involved with Dodie until McD came on board. That is a fact. The only player recruited in the 2006 class that Morgan even had a hand in was CJ.

Dunson is not a Morgan kid. I dont know how we couldn't keep him around, he is still the best high school guard Gmac has recruited (hopefully not once Colvin gets here). Also, Gmac should not have ran Lawrence Westbrook off... he is the leading scorer for the Gophers this year, an NCAA tourney team. We could really use him. I guess his dad was a pain, but part of being a Big 12 coach is dealing with that.

 

[isuno1fan]

Consistantly in the upper half of the B12. Everything else will take care of itself if we are able to do this.

 

[SpokaneCY]

I was curious what people had as a goal for our MBB program in terms of year in year out production.

Does anyone truely think ISU can be a basketball powerhouse with consistant Elite Eight teams with some Final 4 or National Champ teams mixed in?

For arguement sake, in the average 10 years span, how many tourney teams, Sweet 16, EE and FF teams and NC if you want to throw those in?

The goal should be aimed at being tough in conference. If we can consistently be top 4-5 we will be dancing (almost) every year. To pin your hopes solely on tourny success will leave you disappointed way more often than not. So much luck has to go into advancing while over the longterm a good team will grind it our over the conference season. At least thats what I think.

 

[candg4ever]

If we can climb to the top of our own conference, and I see no reason we can't, then we should be in a position to at least challenge top 25 teams regularly. After some consistency there, the way GM is recriting right now, I see absolutely no reason why we couldn't get in to the upper tier of the basketball elite. If Gonzaga can do it, I believe we can, as well.

In order to be truly "elite" status, we should have at least a couple of marquee games every year with teams that are consistently in the Top 25. That might be easier to schedule now than in the past. It had been next to impossible to get a b-ball powerhouse to schedule a home and home series with us, (save tOSU, and our home court was Wells Fargo, thanks again Bruce), because until recently, Hilton had a rep as being one of the toughest places in the country to play at. That's not exactly the case right now, so it might be easier to talk someone into a series before we get back on track, (next year).

We already play Minn. and EIU and a PAC 10 team every year, so I'd rather see us go out east and get some exposure in that part of the country, maybe Keno and Providence, for starters. After that, see if we couldn't work out a 2-3 team revolving Big East opponent schedule. It would get us a ton of publicity, and a chance to beef up our schedule some, in turn helping raise our RPI.

I think the bottom line in all these scenarios is stability and loyalty, loyalty from the players, loyalty from the coaches, and most of all, loyalty and patience from the fans. I really, truly believe deep down in my heart and my soul that if we give coach McDermott a legimate shot, he will turn us into a very successful program, and after he does, if we can keep his salary competetive, he'll stay here for a long, long time.

 

[cyclonenum1]

I see absolutely no reason why we couldn't get in to the upper tier of the basketball elite. If Gonzaga can do it, I believe we can, as well.

In order to be truly "elite" status, we should have at least a couple of marquee games every year with teams that are consistently in the Top 25.

I think the bottom line in all these scenarios is stability and loyalty, loyalty from the players, loyalty from the coaches, and most of all, loyalty and patience from the fans. I really, truly believe deep down in my heart and my soul that if we give coach McDermott a legimate shot, he will turn us into a very successful program, and after he does, if we can keep his salary competetive, he'll stay here for a long, long time.

I agree...we have been and can be an elite program.

I agree...we need to upgrade our schedule which will upgrade our national profile.

However, you last point drives me crazy...WHY DO SO MANY CYCLONE FANS DESIRE A LONG TERM COACH OVER JUST ABOUT EVERYTHING ELSE (INCLUDING WINNING)?? I think most of us consider Johnny to have been our coach for a long time...he was here for 14 years. GM is 3 years into a ridiculous 9 year deal and he has done nothing. I think the faithful have been plenty patient...especially since these last 3 years have been the worst 3 consecutive years in a long, long time for the program. I want winning basketball. Sure, I'd love to have a top tier coach come in and win and stay 15 years like Johnny...but I only want the coach that can win. Your plea for loyalty is great...but this is a business where the definition of a long time is 10 years (not 30). Do you think the fans at WVU ever thought Rich Rodriguez would leave? WVU was his alma mater, they were paying him very competitively, and he was winning at a very high level...now he is at Michigan. Call me crazy, but I want us to have a coach that other schools covet. We clearly do not currently have that.