Stop underutilizing Ward

[jctisu]

All hail the exalted one, ZRF. We are merely lucky to be in the same chat as such a coaching guru.

Like I said in the college hoops thread last night, everyone laughs at you man. The amount of dumbs and laughing emojis you get per post has got to be a record.

 

[AllInForISU]

All hail the exalted one, ZRF. We are merely lucky to be in the same chat as such a coaching guru.

Like I said in the college hoops thread last night, everyone laughs at you man. The amount of dumbs and laughing emojis you get per post has got to be a record.

I think the problem is he delivers everything as fact, when it’s just his opinion. He’s had some decent points on his post at times, but acting like he could coach this team better is laughable, and that’s how he comes across 99% of the time.

 

[bosco]

In PS5 terms, Wards R2 button is stuck in the down position and he needs a sub so he can continue being effective when he’s in. Only the real ones know what I mean.

Today I found out I'm not real. My family will be so surprised.

 

[3TrueFans]

I think the problem is he delivers everything as fact, when it’s just his opinion. He’s had some decent points on his post at times, but acting like he could coach this team better is laughable, and that’s how he comes across 99% of the time.

“I don’t know why TJ is doing it but I know it’s arbitrary, I’m right and TJ is wrong.”

 

[NENick]

I agree with ZRF 100%!
If that dumbass TJ would play Ward 4-5 more minutes per game this team would've beat VT and TA&M!
What? Oh, Ward was injured?

Ok, but I know we would've knocked off Houston and Kansas! Probably be contending for the conference championship, ranked top 15, being called the toughest team in America by Seth Greenberg, who has never said anything positive about the Cyclones!
What? All those things are reality?

Nevermind.

 

[DrClone]

There were many games last year when Osun was in foul trouble and could not play more than he did. ZRF's post is a poor example of TJ's player usage failure. I think he's done a great job of it overall last year and this year.

 

[jctisu]

I think the problem is he delivers everything as fact, when it’s just his opinion. He’s had some decent points on his post at times, but acting like he could coach this team better is laughable, and that’s how he comes across 99% of the time.

Yep and you have to admit when you are wrong. I’ve said so many stupid things on here over the years. Overall I think I do a great job with my takes, but I have ones I look back at the next day and say, “Well that was stupid.” And I will even own it when I clearly know it was a bad take. Nobody, especially anyone of us low life’s in here (yes that’s a compliment because you all rock and I’m right here with you), is right all of the time. But ZRF could fool you into thinking he knows all.

And it’s just the constant criticism of our coaches and players even when we play great and win. Like damn dude.

 

[ZRF]

It's about trust too. If you can't trust him to stay out of foul trouble that also affects game week prep and planning.

You have to be able to trust he can be in there when you gameplan ahead of time. If you gameplan for his strengths as a key in our defense and he's not available from foul trouble that drags down the whole defensive unit.

Yes he's had SOME games where he stayed out of foul trouble, but he needs to be able to be counted on to eliminate the foolish fouls and he's getting closer. We are also seeing more minutes.

I agree. But he's never going to "learn" he doesn't need to body or even leave his feet to be affective. If you don't let him learn in a trial by fire setting, with some well-timed instruction, he never will. Prematurely pulling him for something you anticipate, but hasn't happened yet isn't helping the cause.

 

[interrobang]

I agree. But he's never going to "learn" he doesn't need to body or even leave his feet to be affective. If you don't let him learn in a trial by fire setting, with some well-timed instruction, he never will. Prematurely pulling him for something you anticipate, but hasn't happened yet isn't helping the cause.

So now you know how Ward learns best as well? You must be really well connected with the team!

 

[ZRF]

Jones and Ward are different types of players/defenders. Jones is physical in paint, solid in double teams and on-ball. Ward is much better in space and rim protector/shot blocker.

So the Jones/Ward tandem are complimentary players and create different match-up issues for opponents. So expecting each to play 16-24mpg is reasonable.

Neither is tremendously skilled as a low post scorer. And while Ward is a great rim-protector, his weakness is bodying up against physical low-posts like KU's Dickinson.

I think this is overstated. When comparing the player's own abilities within himself, Jones is a MUCH better 1 v 1 defender than he is a weakside rim protector or rotational/flash (to the shooter) defender. No question there. I'd also say Ward's superior strength is being the latter vs the former.

The problem with your comment is Ward is so much more talented, so much more athletic than Jones (and has also gained weight) that that he's actually just as effective (maybe even moreso) as a 1 v 1 defender on the block than Jones. Dickinson virtually scored the same amount of points when either was on the floor, got both his O boards on Jones, while notching the majority of his D rebounds on Ward. He also had 2 turnovers when Ward was out there.

I'd say they are similar in those types of situations with some different strengths. When a player, like Dickinson, is effective on the lob entries Ward is far superior (I'd have to watch video but I really KU lobbing toward the basket much more when Jones was in) whereas Bob is better at keeping guys away from the basket.

In the end its less about Bob and more about Ward's play. If Ward can keep himself on the floor he should be on in almost every situation. The exceptions being when we know we're going to get fouled or need a 3.

 

[madguy30]

So now you know how Ward learns best as well? You must be really well connected with the team!

The vacuum ZRF lives in must be quite the place.

 

[AuH2O]

It’s fine if someone thinks Ward should play more minutes. I think it's a totally reasonable view that Ward is a better matchup against interior-driven teams that run O through a 5 like Dickinson. As a result, Ward played more. Jones does better switching and double-teaming and scrambling back against more guard-oriented teams. Ward's still working back in, but he's starting to play more and probably will moving forward other than foul trouble.

But I really don't anticipate either of them playing more than 25 mins. barring injury or foul trouble by the other. The bigs being able to play hard and be aggressive is a luxury this depth provides.

I do think it's pretty bold after the KU game and claim it’s an undeniable mistake by TJ to underutilize Ward when the stats were as follows:

Ward: 22 minutes, 3 pts on 1-4 shooting, 4 reb, 2 blk, 2 st and 2 asst

Rob plays 19 min scores 5 on 2/3 shooting, has 4 reb and 2 blocks.

Ward was a better matchup, and TJ played him more. Ward looked gassed in a couple of his longer stretches in the second half.

I'm just thrilled to have a good team and not have to watch bigs play ole defense because they have foul trouble and no depth behind them like we had in the Hoiberg and Prohm eras.

 

[Statefan10]

It’s fine if someone thinks Ward should play more minutes. I think it's a totally reasonable view that Ward is a better matchup against interior-driven teams that run O through a 5 like Dickinson. As a result, Ward played more. Jones does better switching and double-teaming and scrambling back against more guard-oriented teams. Ward's still working back in, but he's starting to play more and probably will moving forward other than foul trouble.

But I really don't anticipate either of them playing more than 25 mins. barring injury or foul trouble by the other. The bigs being able to play hard and be aggressive is a luxury this depth provides.

I do think it's pretty bold after the KU game and claim it’s an undeniable mistake by TJ to underutilize Ward when the stats were as follows:

Ward: 22 minutes, 3 pts on 1-4 shooting, 4 reb, 2 blk, 2 st and 2 asst

Rob plays 19 min scores 5 on 2/3 shooting, has 4 reb and 2 blocks.

Ward was a better matchup, and TJ played him more. Ward looked gassed in a couple of his longer stretches in the second half.

I'm just thrilled to have a good team and not have to watch bigs play ole defense because they have foul trouble and no depth behind them like we had in the Hoiberg and Prohm eras.

I think every single person in this thread would like to see Ward get more minutes. We're just not saying to the extent the OP is saying it. He's essentially saying TJ is an absolute idiot for not playing Ward more.

 

[isucy86]

I think this is overstated. When comparing the player's own abilities within himself, Jones is a MUCH better 1 v 1 defender than he is a weakside rim protector or rotational/flash (to the shooter) defender. No question there. I'd also say Ward's superior strength is being the latter vs the former.

The problem with your comment is Ward is so much more talented, so much more athletic than Jones (and has also gained weight) that that he's actually just as effective (maybe even moreso) as a 1 v 1 defender on the block than Jones. Dickinson virtually scored the same amount of points when either was on the floor, got both his O boards on Jones, while notching the majority of his D rebounds on Ward. He also had 2 turnovers when Ward was out there.

I'd say they are similar in those types of situations with some different strengths. When a player, like Dickinson, is effective on the lob entries Ward is far superior (I'd have to watch video but I really KU lobbing toward the basket much more when Jones was in) whereas Bob is better at keeping guys away from the basket.

In the end its less about Bob and more about Ward's play. If Ward can keep himself on the floor he should be on in almost every situation. The exceptions being when we know we're going to get fouled or need a 3.

Ward and Jones thrive because the coaching staff leverages their strengths, put them in favorable match-ups and doesn't ask them to do to much.

Based on the effort that TJ requires on defense, I would be surprised if Jones or Ward could play much more than 25mpg.

It's no different than our guards. Unlike the Prohm and early TJ years where our guards would play 35ish minutes a game, Lipsey and Gilbert are both under 32mpg in Big12 games.

 

[ZRF]

Ward and Jones thrive because the coaching staff leverages their strengths, put them in favorable match-ups and doesn't ask them to do to much.

Based on the effort that TJ requires on defense, I would be surprised if Jones or Ward could play much more than 25mpg.

It's no different than our guards. Unlike the Prohm and early TJ years where our guards would play 35ish minutes a game, Lipsey and Gilbert are both under 32mpg in Big12 games.

I don't know about that.

TJ's handling of the bigs often has no clear pattern assigned to it. In general he plays the bigs within an allotted minute range and doesn't necessarily adjust said pattern based on the flow of the game (TJ will still sub players...particulary Ward...even during dominating stretches). Foul are almost the exclusive dictator as to WHEN a player gets pulled. Now, I do think when/if we need offense Tre is more likely to play over Ward/BRE. In terms of BRE vs Ward there is little in the way of discernable patterns as to when either is inserted or pulled other than foul trouble,

Again, this isn't a slight on BRE, but I think the only things he's better at than Ward is keeping post players further from the basket before entry (but they can also go over top of him easier) and skils/post moves in the paint. Ward is more athletic, runs the floor better, is a better rim protector, better rotational defender, better around the rim, and a better passer (not that Rob is better). He's simply a guy you don't take off the floor, just like Lipsey.

On the 2nd bolded point you COULD be right. One of my main points throughout this thread is that TJ NEEDS to make Ward prove, one way or another, that he can/can't. That's what needs to change (when fouls aren't a limiting factor).

 

[Statefan10]

I don't know about that.

TJ's handling of the bigs often has no clear pattern assigned to it. In general he plays the bigs within an allotted minute range and doesn't necessarily adjust said pattern based on the flow of the game (TJ will still sub players...particulary Ward...even during dominating stretches). Foul are almost the exclusive dictator as to WHEN a player gets pulled. Now, I do think when/if we need offense Tre is more likely to play over Ward/BRE. In terms of BRE vs Ward there is little in the way of discernable patterns as to when either is inserted or pulled other than foul trouble,

Again, this isn't a slight on BRE, but I think the only things he's better at than Ward is keeping post players further from the basket before entry (but they can also go over top of him easier) and skils/post moves in the paint. Ward is more athletic, runs the floor better, is a better rim protector, better rotational defender, better around the rim, and a better passer (not that Rob is better). He's simply a guy you don't take off the floor, just like Lipsey.

On the 2nd bolded point you COULD be right. One of my main points throughout this thread is that TJ NEEDS to make Ward prove, one way or another, that he can/can't. That's what needs to change (when fouls aren't a limiting factor).

I don't think there's a single person in this thread or on this site that should be telling TJ Otzelberger what he needs to do in regards to his #12 ranked Iowa State Cyclones.

 

[ghyland7]

This thread gives me “I peaked in high school and we would have won state if coach put me in” vibes.

 

[ZRF]

This thread gives me “I peaked in high school and we would have won state if coach put me in” vibes.

 

[coolerifyoudid]

Good coaches are going to have metrics as a guide, but will coach each game with a feel for the flow of the game as well as his/her players. The results given to us by TJ should warrant a certain amount of trust that he knows more about his players strengths and limitations than anyone watching the game. Expecting perfection is asinine.

In terms of minutes, I like watching BRE soften up an opposing big by beating the crap out of him every second he's on the floor. It takes a toll.

 

[3TrueFans]

Good coaches are going to have metrics as a guide, but will coach each game with a feel for the flow of the game as well as his/her players. The results given to us by TJ should warrant a certain amount of trust that he knows more about his players strengths and limitations than anyone watching the game. Expecting perfection is asinine.

In terms of minutes, I like watching BRE soften up an opposing big by beating the crap out of him every second he's on the floor. It takes a toll.

Or, and hear me out for a second, I know better than him and he's wrong and doesn't know what he's doing.