It took us until July to learn what our best bullpen was, and then we ran our best 2-3 arms into the ground.
I don't hate the "build the bullpen from the farm" method, but when your farm is dealing with blight, maybe get some help.
***Official 2023 Chicago Cubs Thread***
- Thread starter BigJCy
- Start date
I don't hate the "build the bullpen from the farm" method, but when your farm is dealing with blight, maybe get some help.
CycloneErik
Well-Known Member
As frustrating as it is right now in the big picture they are about a year ahead on the rebuild than I thought they would be at this point. I thought coming into this year and even back in June when they were struggling that the team they have been in the 2nd half of the season was where they were going to be in 2024. Figured this would be the last year where we sold off rental players like Belli and Stroman and some other smaller pieces then went all in on free agency and seeing what we had in prospects.
Imagine what the lineup would look like right now had we sold rather than bought. Pretty sure Canario, PCA, and Mervis would be starting nearly every day and probably would have given some guys like Perlaza, Vazquez, Slaughter, maybe even Bote a look in Chicago and given Wesneski and Killian a few late season starts. Now we're at a point where Belli is going to be a priority target in free agency and going to be some roster and 40 man decisions to be made on who they think can fill a role next year or what they are going to target in free agency or a trade. It's obvious that a top of the rotation starter or too and some bullpen help is going to need to be brought in from outside the organization until the guys we have now can prove they can handle high leverage situations consistently.
Imagine what the lineup would look like right now had we sold rather than bought. Pretty sure Canario, PCA, and Mervis would be starting nearly every day and probably would have given some guys like Perlaza, Vazquez, Slaughter, maybe even Bote a look in Chicago and given Wesneski and Killian a few late season starts. Now we're at a point where Belli is going to be a priority target in free agency and going to be some roster and 40 man decisions to be made on who they think can fill a role next year or what they are going to target in free agency or a trade. It's obvious that a top of the rotation starter or too and some bullpen help is going to need to be brought in from outside the organization until the guys we have now can prove they can handle high leverage situations consistently.
Hoyer evidently spoke with the media today.
- Seems unhappy to give up outs in the manner of which we do; specifically, doesn't like intentionally bunting to give up an out, along with silly baserunning mistakes with "below-average" pitching.
- Mentioned how a manager makes 5-10 calls a game and the ones they get wrong they get questioned for, especially when having close losses, followed by "we've played so many close games that it probably magnifies it"
- Ultimately understands our bullpen is a ******* joke. On the bullpen: "when I think about this season, that'll be the challenge to myself is to make sure we have enough volume to get through it."
- Seems unhappy to give up outs in the manner of which we do; specifically, doesn't like intentionally bunting to give up an out, along with silly baserunning mistakes with "below-average" pitching.
- Mentioned how a manager makes 5-10 calls a game and the ones they get wrong they get questioned for, especially when having close losses, followed by "we've played so many close games that it probably magnifies it"
- Ultimately understands our bullpen is a ******* joke. On the bullpen: "when I think about this season, that'll be the challenge to myself is to make sure we have enough volume to get through it."
Was thinking about who I'd want back next year.
Alzolay but if we really do spend this off season I'd want someone that can share the closing duties.
Merryweather, too good of stuff to pass on.
Leiter, hopefully shutting down in the off season will get him back to first half dependability
Cuas, really think we can do better.
Boxberger, he's under contract so we need to hope he's healthy next year
Fulmer is a free agent. I'd look for an upgrade.
Assad, the brightest spot we've had.
Smyly, got him for another year. Unless a small market is looking for a cheap vet starter.
Little, expect a much larger role.
Wesneski, most likely back as long relief.
Palencia, shouldn't be on ML roster next year. Depth in Iowa.
Brown, likely up at some point could be a mainstay.
Hopefully we can add a couple guys that attack the zone.
All 3 valid points. About the bullpen they probably didn't go into this season expecting to make the playoffs otherwise they would have a signed a few more proven guys for the bullpen and they weren't going to waste prospect capital at the deadline for a rental either. The guys they signed were the same kind of cheap reclamation projects they have been flipping at the deadline lately.
I'm not on the fire Ross wagon yet but the decision making has got to improve next year else I will tip the other way on my opinion. Hoping he learns for the mistakes and becomes a better manager from it because I do think he does a great job keeping the clubhouse united and loose and that is a big part of the job as well.
I'm not on the fire Ross wagon yet but the decision making has got to improve next year else I will tip the other way on my opinion. Hoping he learns for the mistakes and becomes a better manager from it because I do think he does a great job keeping the clubhouse united and loose and that is a big part of the job as well.
I've felt for awhile that Rossy would be given a chance next year to show he's learned from this year but I do think there's a shot they've been grooming Girardi to potentially replace him, since Girardi had multiple D1 baseball offers and declined them.
I do have some hesitations with the Girardi idea in that his only success in the majors was with a ridiculously stacked Yankees team.
I do have some hesitations with the Girardi idea in that his only success in the majors was with a ridiculously stacked Yankees team.
Jed mentioned Ross and Andy Green, the bench coach, working together to make in-game strategies. My "solution" to the manager issue, should Ross come back, would be letting go of Andy Green, who's only success in the MLB is being friends with Jed Hoyer. He's a losing manager and he's never been a part of a winning organization, and instead hiring some analytical nerd who can make those decisions.
Look at the Rays, Brewers, Twins, or Giants, all organizations who tend to do more with less, and see if you can find a Peter Brand and let Ross be the good-guy/friend that the traditional bench coach plays.
Look at the Rays, Brewers, Twins, or Giants, all organizations who tend to do more with less, and see if you can find a Peter Brand and let Ross be the good-guy/friend that the traditional bench coach plays.
Boxberger is a mutual option for $5 mil next year so Cubs could decline the option if they want to. I'm 50/50 on picking it up. If they think he can stay healthy and pitch like he did from 2020-2022 it's a reasonable price.
Cuas I won't shed a tear if they decline to tender him a contract but could see them retaining and sending him to AAA to see what happens as cheap depth. Same with Palencia.
Smyly has a 2025 mutual option at 10 mil so how he does next season is going to factor into if there is any reason to pick up that option.
Agree mostly with everything you listed. A lot also depends on the Stroman and Hendricks options too. I have a feeling Stroman picks up his option which forces them to decline Hendricks option to free up some money but if they wanted to get really aggressive if Stroman opts out I wouldn't mind moving on from Hendricks either and having that money in the pool to address needs. Hendricks surpassed my expectations this year but he'll be 34 next year and he's 3-5 with an ERA just over 4.00 since July so he's due to fall off a cliff soon based on what we saw the previous 2 seasons.
I appreciate the optimism, but I'm out on this "year ahead of schedule" crap. You sign Swanson to a 177 million dollar deal. You strike gold with Belli playing at an All Star level. You get a really solid year out of Gomes. You've got good pieces in Suzuki and Hoerner, as well as Happ when he's right. You have a guy in Steele who pitched at or near a Cy Young level all year, as well as Kyle who is pretty dependable and Stroman who was great early.
This team had the best roster in the NL Central by far. But they were hamstrung by bad management, platooning in guys who didn't belong early, and a horrible bullpen. I just can't do the whole "plucky overachieiving underdog" thing.
there is not a better organization better at talking about the next off-season and looking forward to next year every year. The team is just expediting the process this year.
The bullpen is a wreck right now. Leiter is a different pitcher and injuries have decimated a core group of bullpen arms coming out of spring training:
- Alzolay
- Fulmer
- Boxberger
- Hughes
- Roberts
The other unfortunate thing is the bullpen fell apart after the trade deadline.
