Principal Financial-Remote work

[Urbandale2013]

They aren’t saying what days they have to be there so they are basically saying if you have 500 employees you need to have 300 there on average.

That’s not how I understood it. I understood it as 250 actual jobs and those jobs have to be in office a minimum of 3 days a week. What those days are wasn’t stipulated but they were mandate a minimum In person policy. So the way I understood it someone in office 100% doesn’t decrease the need for others. Maybe it’s just poor writing.

 

[CYdTracked]

Thinking about this more. I hope Des Moines has other more forward thinking plans to attract people downtown. This feels like putting a bandaid on a gaping wound. It is an attempt to hang on to an old system rather than innovating for the way things are going.

Pre-pandemic the growth downtown was because a lot of the younger work force like to live there because they could just get on the skywalk and walk to work. It's why you saw a lot of businesses investing in downtown which led to more entertainment, housing, and even a Hy-Vee to have all the conveniences without having to leave downtown. I know of someone that their company has left their downtown office space and consolidated to their other office in West Des Moines and they used to live just a couple blocks from work and now have to commute west so they are looking at moving out of downtown now. That's just 1 example how for each person that no longer works or lives downtown is going to impact everything down there that relies on foot traffic and a need for their business that are no longer coming to them. Small/local businesses probably take the biggest hit in that regard.

There were a lot of development projects downtown put on hold or even abandoned due to what the pandemic did to downtown businesses and the amount of people working downtown now is probably a far cry from what it was prior to 2020 and that is obviously going to have an impact on other businesses in the area too. Not sure what the solution is because without businesses occupying space downtown then all the supplemental businesses and living options that provided a need for the people working there also go away. Not sure how many here are old enough to remember what downtown used to be like but it was lacking in places to live, lacking in entertainment and retail, and just not a place people wanted to go to. Des Moines really revitalized the downtown area from about 2000 till the pandemic and now it's facing issues that are going to stall development or even negatively impact the area where you are going to see places closing and lots of empty space go unused. The growing suburbs will probably see the benefit as people move out of downtown.

Curious to hear thoughts on how they can "fix" downtown that doesn't involve enticing businesses that will bring the people needed to support the other businesses that rely on having people in the area for them to stay open. If no one works downtown then there are a lot of other businesses that will be no more because they can't stay viable.

 

[CloniesForLife]

Pre-pandemic the growth downtown was because a lot of the younger work force like to live there because they could just get on the skywalk and walk to work. It's why you saw a lot of businesses investing in downtown which led to more entertainment, housing, and even a Hy-Vee to have all the conveniences without having to leave downtown. I know of someone that their company has left their downtown office space and consolidated to their other office in West Des Moines and they used to live just a couple blocks from work and now have to commute west so they are looking at moving out of downtown now. That's just 1 example how for each person that no longer works or lives downtown is going to impact everything down there that relies on foot traffic and a need for their business that are no longer coming to them. Small/local businesses probably take the biggest hit in that regard.

There were a lot of development projects downtown put on hold or even abandoned due to what the pandemic did to downtown businesses and the amount of people working downtown now is probably a far cry from what it was prior to 2020 and that is obviously going to have an impact on other businesses in the area too. Not sure what the solution is because without businesses occupying space downtown then all the supplemental businesses and living options that provided a need for the people working there also go away. Not sure how many here are old enough to remember what downtown used to be like but it was lacking in places to live, lacking in entertainment and retail, and just not a place people wanted to go to. Des Moines really revitalized the downtown area from about 2000 till the pandemic and now it's facing issues that are going to stall development or even negatively impact the area where you are going to see places closing and lots of empty space go unused. The growing suburbs will probably see the benefit as people move out of downtown.

Curious to hear thoughts on how they can "fix" downtown that doesn't involve enticing businesses that will bring the people needed to support the other businesses that rely on having people in the area for them to stay open. If no one works downtown then there are a lot of other businesses that will be no more because they can't stay viable.

It is definitely a tough problem. And like I said I understand why they are offering the tax breaks. I'm just skeptical on the impact it will have so I hope they have other ideas to move downtown forward.

 

[beentherebefore]

We may have to get used to downtowns as being something much different than just office towers. I would not want to be in the commercial office space business right now.

Can (or should) office towers be repurposed? I assume the issues with plumbing and windows and so on are extensive when converting a building designed for office work to a building for residents.

There is a lot to be said for remote work as well as in-office work. I always wonder how much is really about control.

 

[alarson]

Pre-pandemic the growth downtown was because a lot of the younger work force like to live there because they could just get on the skywalk and walk to work. It's why you saw a lot of businesses investing in downtown which led to more entertainment, housing, and even a Hy-Vee to have all the conveniences without having to leave downtown. I know of someone that their company has left their downtown office space and consolidated to their other office in West Des Moines and they used to live just a couple blocks from work and now have to commute west so they are looking at moving out of downtown now. That's just 1 example how for each person that no longer works or lives downtown is going to impact everything down there that relies on foot traffic and a need for their business that are no longer coming to them. Small/local businesses probably take the biggest hit in that regard.

There were a lot of development projects downtown put on hold or even abandoned due to what the pandemic did to downtown businesses and the amount of people working downtown now is probably a far cry from what it was prior to 2020 and that is obviously going to have an impact on other businesses in the area too. Not sure what the solution is because without businesses occupying space downtown then all the supplemental businesses and living options that provided a need for the people working there also go away. Not sure how many here are old enough to remember what downtown used to be like but it was lacking in places to live, lacking in entertainment and retail, and just not a place people wanted to go to. Des Moines really revitalized the downtown area from about 2000 till the pandemic and now it's facing issues that are going to stall development or even negatively impact the area where you are going to see places closing and lots of empty space go unused. The growing suburbs will probably see the benefit as people move out of downtown.

Curious to hear thoughts on how they can "fix" downtown that doesn't involve enticing businesses that will bring the people needed to support the other businesses that rely on having people in the area for them to stay open. If no one works downtown then there are a lot of other businesses that will be no more because they can't stay viable.

That's far from the only reason people were moving downtown. In fact, of the people I know who have moved downtown in recent years, none of them actually worked downtown. They simply wanted to be more in the middle of things. Its not like the downtown employment grew all that much in recent years while downtown housing units skyrocketed.

Rather than trying to incentivize antiquated workforce patterns, cities need to focus on how to continue this trend. Continue to develop downtown areas so they are attractive places for people to live with lots of activity going on. DSM doing things like pushing events like 80\35 and Oktoberfest out of downtown to water works park is probably the opposite of the move they need to be taking. Not to mention, when you get people downtown from living there and not just working there, you get business at a wider range of hours, not just over the lunch hour, which benefits downtown restaurants a lot more.

 

[CYdTracked]

We may have to get used to downtowns as being something much different than just office towers. I would not want to be in the commercial office space business right now.

Can (or should) office towers be repurposed? I assume the issues with plumbing and windows and so on are extensive when converting a building designed for office work to a building for residents.

There is a lot to be said for remote work as well as in-office work. I always wonder how much is really about control.

Lots of buildings that were previously office space have already been converted into housing over the past 20 years in downtown Des Moines. Another such project just got announced too:
Two Ruan Center to be converted to market rate apartments - Business Record

The City of Des Moines has bought one of Nationwide's big offices to consolidate all their smaller buildings into 1 as well as move the police department there. There are a lot of various size buildings currently up for sale in the downtown area too:

https://www.loopnet.com/search/office-buildings/des-moines-ia/for-sale/?sk=70029bad86b4197f592f6c465b21c9e4&e=u

 

[cowgirl836]

We may have to get used to downtowns as being something much different than just office towers. I would not want to be in the commercial office space business right now.

Can (or should) office towers be repurposed? I assume the issues with plumbing and windows and so on are extensive when converting a building designed for office work to a building for residents.

There is a lot to be said for remote work as well as in-office work. I always wonder how much is really about control.

Yep.

 

[Bigman38]

Requiring in-person work for office development tax breaks: Des Moines likely sets new norm

Des Moines likely set a new standard for awarding development aid: Kum & Go's new owner must show its employees are working in person 3 days a week.

www.desmoinesregister.com

Sounds like a great way to scare away development.

Come to Des Moines, all you have to do is get rid of one your biggest recruiting tools.

 

[Tailg8er]

Requiring in-person work for office development tax breaks: Des Moines likely sets new norm

Des Moines likely set a new standard for awarding development aid: Kum & Go's new owner must show its employees are working in person 3 days a week.

www.desmoinesregister.com

$25k a year doesn't seem like much for a company that size. The company I work for, which only has ~100-120 employees at our downtown HQ, paid more than that each month for parking alone..

As a company, I wouldn't want to commit to 3+ day in-office work weeks for my employees (& risk losing top talent to more flexible companies) for a measly $25k/year.

 

[BCClone]

Sounds like a great way to scare away development.

Come to Des Moines, all you have to do is get rid of one your biggest recruiting tools.

Why would the city give incentives to a company if they arent going to bring people?

 

[BillBrasky4Cy]

Pre-pandemic the growth downtown was because a lot of the younger work force like to live there because they could just get on the skywalk and walk to work. It's why you saw a lot of businesses investing in downtown which led to more entertainment, housing, and even a Hy-Vee to have all the conveniences without having to leave downtown. I know of someone that their company has left their downtown office space and consolidated to their other office in West Des Moines and they used to live just a couple blocks from work and now have to commute west so they are looking at moving out of downtown now. That's just 1 example how for each person that no longer works or lives downtown is going to impact everything down there that relies on foot traffic and a need for their business that are no longer coming to them. Small/local businesses probably take the biggest hit in that regard.

There were a lot of development projects downtown put on hold or even abandoned due to what the pandemic did to downtown businesses and the amount of people working downtown now is probably a far cry from what it was prior to 2020 and that is obviously going to have an impact on other businesses in the area too. Not sure what the solution is because without businesses occupying space downtown then all the supplemental businesses and living options that provided a need for the people working there also go away. Not sure how many here are old enough to remember what downtown used to be like but it was lacking in places to live, lacking in entertainment and retail, and just not a place people wanted to go to. Des Moines really revitalized the downtown area from about 2000 till the pandemic and now it's facing issues that are going to stall development or even negatively impact the area where you are going to see places closing and lots of empty space go unused. The growing suburbs will probably see the benefit as people move out of downtown.

Curious to hear thoughts on how they can "fix" downtown that doesn't involve enticing businesses that will bring the people needed to support the other businesses that rely on having people in the area for them to stay open. If no one works downtown then there are a lot of other businesses that will be no more because they can't stay viable.

The downtown scene was starting to get pretty rough well before covid.

 

[cowgirl836]

$25k a year doesn't seem like much for a company that size. The company I work for, which only has ~100-120 employees at our downtown HQ, paid more than that each month for parking alone..

As a company, I wouldn't want to commit to 3+ day in-office work weeks for my employees (& risk losing top talent to more flexible companies) for a measly $25k/year.

I bet something like "host your annual Christmas party" or on-site management trainings in DSM bringing in more revenue to the broader city then as well.

 

[ISUcyclones11]

I just want to take the time to appreciate that there is an account on a sports forum called "pfgemployee", made nearly 15 years ago, that randomly pops up every few years to talk about Principal.

I love this site.

 

[Bigman38]

Why would the city give incentives to a company if they arent going to bring people?

Why in your scenario are the developers building something they won’t use?

 

[BCClone]

Why in your scenario are the developers building something they won’t use?

You were the one who mentioned that the biggest recruiting tool was WFH. You’re the one who brought you the scenario, not me. You answer your own hypothetical situation.

 

[Bigman38]

You were the one who mentioned that the biggest recruiting tool was WFH. You’re the one who brought you the scenario, not me. You answer your own hypothetical situation.

I think you’re lost. So let’s try this angle, how does imposing this rule incentivize development?

Because I only see it disincentivizing development. No one is going to look at that tax break and see it as a + for restricting their remote work options they can offer.

 

[BCClone]

I think you’re lost. So let’s try this angle, how does imposing this rule incentivize development?

Because I only see it disincentivizing development. No one is going to look at that tax break and see it as a + for restricting their remote work options they can offer.

So why would a company develop something if no one’s going to be there?

If someone is going to build they expect usage. If a city is going to give incentives for a company, they are looking for ways to recoup that money which usually is in sales taxes or increased taxes in those working there. Otherwise it’s just a handout with nothing coming back.

It’s why it makes sense for the city to require so much foot traffic if they are going to help. I don’t think I’m lost in this thought.

So, explain why it doesn’t make sense for the city to require foot traffic to give incentives.

 

[Cyched]

That's far from the only reason people were moving downtown. In fact, of the people I know who have moved downtown in recent years, none of them actually worked downtown. They simply wanted to be more in the middle of things. Its not like the downtown employment grew all that much in recent years while downtown housing units skyrocketed.

Rather than trying to incentivize antiquated workforce patterns, cities need to focus on how to continue this trend. Continue to develop downtown areas so they are attractive places for people to live with lots of activity going on. DSM doing things like pushing events like 80\35 and Oktoberfest out of downtown to water works park is probably the opposite of the move they need to be taking. Not to mention, when you get people downtown from living there and not just working there, you get business at a wider range of hours, not just over the lunch hour, which benefits downtown restaurants a lot more.

Had a friend from back in DM tell me they moved Oktoberfest out of downtown.

I can understand space concerns, but still seems stupid to me. Downtown was such a great setup (Hessen Haus!)

 

[MJ29]

Had a friend from back in DM tell me they moved Oktoberfest out of downtown.

I can understand space concerns, but still seems stupid to me. Downtown was such a great setup (Hessen Haus!)

Yeah, a lot of festivals are moving to Water Works Park.

 

[Cyched]

Yeah, a lot of festivals are moving to Water Works Park.

Which again, I understand from a space point of view, but I remember the times I went to Oktoberfest we would always be able to go out somewhere after we were done with the festivities. Usually including a trip to HH.

If they do it right, it can work, but have to think there will be more vehicle traffic vs. the foot traffic they likely got downtown. Or downtown residents that just decide to stay home.