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Housing market

IcSyU said:
Poor choice of words on my part.

My thought would be apartments aren't the appropriate type of permanent housing. Owner occupied duplexes, single family homes, etc. are the "desirable" housing I'd much prefer to see. Apartments have a place but in my opinion they aren't the solution to the lack of affordable owner occupied housing.

The notion that "all new homebuyers want 3 car garages, finished basements, granite countertops, etc." is wrong. The problem is that's what new builder grade houses are and those are the houses those people can actually get their hands on because the cheaper houses are gobbled up.
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I'd agree, I just think they are part of the piece. Overall we just need more and more units. We also need to pare back a lot of the zoning restrictions that have made it unprofitable for builders to build at smaller scales. Not just smaller single family homes, but things like duplexes, row homes, smaller multifamily (like <10 units) etc built within the normal neighborhood fabric . Theres very much a missing middle.
 
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Cyclone06 said:
What I am mainly saying is actually construct lesser products. Same %, but less $. Instead of making $100k on a unit, maybe make a four that will net you $25k. And those for will be lessor than the 1.

But I get it, why take the risk of building 4 when you can just build one for much less effort? The reason is to reach more people.

Its the same reason lawyers, tax preparers, etc. do pro bono work. Do they want to? Most likely no. Is it good for the community?

Home ownership is not for everyone... but it is for the very significant majority.
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There are a lot of factors that play into this. It's not as simple as building 4 and making 25k less on each. The cost to build isn't a whole lot different for the size of property because there are a lot of baseline costs when building homes.

Cyclone06 said:
Its just crazy to me that we have gotten to a point where we only do things if we are fully incentivized. Was it like that in 50 years ago? 200 years ago?
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Yes, it's been like that forever.
 
IcSyU said:
The problem is a lot of the mid-twenties folks can't even get into a house. There's a ridiculous amount of entry level housing being bought up to become rental properties sight unseen for cash. Younger folks have the 20% but are competing with a cash offer and can't win.

Home ownership isn't for everyone but when the cost of renting exceeds the cost that would otherwise be spent on a mortgage that's just a giveaway to the top in general. Apartments are going up at ridiculous paces around the country because people have been brainwashed to believe that's assisting in the housing crisis. It isn't.
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I agree with what you're saying. It IS tougher for young people to get into that first house, and a big part of that is the boomers (like me) who are living longer and not wanting, or needing to move out of their house. But one thing to remember is how our priorities change over time.

When you graduate, there's a pretty good chance that your first job is not going to be your career job. And, it possible, you'd like to live somewhat close to friends. But in your twenties you probably need to be somewhat mobile to be able to take advantage of that next job offer. Apartments are good for that lifestyle. Hopefully, you're driving a POS car (to save money) and saving for a down payment.

In your 30's and 40's you're raising a family. You need reliable transportation, but those Suburbans and Tahoes cost a lot of damn money. But, you're probably not in that great house you've been thinking about.

tl/dr - The housing market needs to adapt to the various stages in our life cycle.
 
IcSyU said:
Poor choice of words on my part.

My thought would be apartments aren't the appropriate type of permanent housing. Owner occupied duplexes, single family homes, etc. are the "desirable" housing I'd much prefer to see. Apartments have a place but in my opinion they aren't the solution to the lack of affordable owner occupied housing.

The notion that "all new homebuyers want 3 car garages, finished basements, granite countertops, etc." is wrong. The problem is that's what new builder grade houses are and those are the houses those people can actually get their hands on because the cheaper houses are gobbled up.
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Having appraised houses for several years, I disagree with the bolded. All the new houses I appraised, or assisted, were houses that were owner built; not spec homes. Most of the time, we would start in the house and they would talk about their high end cabinets and countertops; each room having separate temperature control, in floor heat along with forced air, concrete siding and composite decking, etc. Then we would go downstairs and many times the basement would be half finished because, we decided we wanted a waterfall fully tiled, two person shower and ran out of money for downstairs.

My wife and I built our house and I would say we were middle of the road for nearly everything. I didn't appraise a house even on the level of ours for new builds, all much higher.
 
CloniesForLife said:
I also don't think just move somewhere with cheaper housing is always an option. Like up here in the cities I'd have to move quite a ways out of town (at least 45 minutes if not more) and then I'm having a really long commute and also limiting future job opportunities if they're on a different side of town. Not to mention potentially nothing going on around me and not being near any friends
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I drive 40 minutes to my work and it's not that big of a deal. My nephew who lived in the TCs for awhile said his 5 mile commute several times took 20 minutes for more. Also, WFH means you don't have to go in as much.
 
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Cyclone06 said:
You are right. Lets all just worry about ourselves and let the politicians fix it. Name of the game, it is what it is. This mantra has suited me well.

But we've have seen the incredible increase in the wealth gap, and the crazy increase in house prices while salaries and wages have not kept pace. Its just hard for me to think this is a good thing for the long term. And if we go back to my original post, builders are only part of the problem. So are peoples expectations. So are politics. So is my lack of charitable giving.

Its just crazy to me that we have gotten to a point where we only do things if we are fully incentivized. Was it like that in 50 years ago? 200 years ago? There was a time when being a politician was not a full time job. I am led to believe in those times, profit was not the end all be all driver of each and every decision.
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First off I refuse to sit back and think any politician is going to fix any issue so no clue where you got that from.

Put up and start your house-building company doing the less-profit per house business model. Find the labor, pay them, and do 4 times the projects, 4 times the permitting, 4 times everything. Hopefully you have success and can make the difference you are talking about.
 
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KnappShack said:
We'll find out shortly about this one. Unless it falls out.

www.zillow.com

1521 61st St, Des Moines, IA 50311 | Zillow

1521 61st St, Des Moines IA, is a Single Family home that contains 864 sq ft and was built in 1950.It contains 3 bedrooms and 1 bathroom. The Zestimate for this Single Family is $219,800.The Rent Zestimate for this Single Family is $1,299/mo.
www.zillow.com www.zillow.com
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Considering they dropped the list price by $15k, I'm guessing they won't get $225k - but we'll see soon enough.
 
Tailg8er said:
Considering they dropped the list price by $15k, I'm guessing they won't get $225k - but we'll see soon enough.
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Close comps were around that $200k value. Even if those comps came from Zillow.

Looks like the flippers will make some bank if they can get this across the finish line.
 
3 beds, 1 bath and decent sized fenced in yard, price seems about right. (Doing zero research)
If buyers use NFC they can get a forgiveable loan and put in a garage.
 
alarson said:
I'd agree, I just think they are part of the piece. Overall we just need more and more units. We also need to pare back a lot of the zoning restrictions that have made it unprofitable for builders to build at smaller scales. Not just smaller single family homes, but things like duplexes, row homes, smaller multifamily (like <10 units) etc built within the normal neighborhood fabric . Theres very much a missing middle.
Click to expand...
A few years ago housing with 4 or more units had their property taxes changed from 90% of valuation taxed and now it is rolled back to I believe 54% of assessed value taxed. My guess is the profit is in multi unit housing. Rent hasn't went down. A cheap new home $350,000. Some of these small towns neighboring metro areas have a gold mine waiting for them if they would play their cards right. Some are some just waiting for it to happen then they will just react and sometimes poorly. A row of two or three bedroom ranch homes on pads with two car garages, would sell fast wouldn't they? Retirees and first time home buyers? I am not in the business it just seems that part of the market is ignored.
 
Stopped to check out a for sale home in my hood. This is close to a starter home, 3bd 2 bath, 1650sf. Probably close to 30 years old. Over half a mil. Ugh. This market is rough.
 
KnappShack said:
Close comps were around that $200k value. Even if those comps came from Zillow.

Looks like the flippers will make some bank if they can get this across the finish line.
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Yeah I never debated it would sell for $200k, I agree that's probably the market value currently. It was never a $225k house, though.
 
mkadl said:
A few years ago housing with 4 or more units had their property taxes changed from 90% of valuation taxed and now it is rolled back to I believe 54% of assessed value taxed. My guess is the profit is in multi unit housing. Rent hasn't went down. A cheap new home $350,000. Some of these small towns neighboring metro areas have a gold mine waiting for them if they would play their cards right. Some are some just waiting for it to happen then they will just react and sometimes poorly. A row of two or three bedroom ranch homes on pads with two car garages, would sell fast wouldn't they? Retirees and first time home buyers? I am not in the business it just seems that part of the market is ignored.
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My buddy just bought a townhome brand new East of Ankeny. No basement, no coat closet. 3 BRs upstairs. 2 car garage. Over $250k.

It blows me away what it costs right now. It's just a shiny POS if you ask me. We bought a beautiful ranch with walkout. Backs to the creek and has a bunch of landscaping on 3/4 acre lot. We almost passed it up at $320k. This was 9 years ago. Based on the crap I see I should be able to get $750k for it. :) I think Zillow estimates $480k. Guessing I'd get $500k.

But what a mess this country is in. Price of a 12 pack of soda is $9. Can't get a decent sandwich for under $12. People are having to finance ****** homes at high price and high interest. Thankfully I'm over 50 with a good job but I feel bad for those just starting out. Not sure how you can buy a home and save for retirement if you make less than 6 figures.
 
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stateofmind said:
My buddy just bought a townhome brand new East of Ankeny. No basement, no coat closet. 3 BRs upstairs. 2 car garage. Over $250k.

It blows me away what it costs right now. It's just a shiny POS if you ask me. We bought a beautiful ranch with walkout. Backs to the creek and has a bunch of landscaping on 3/4 acre lot. We almost passed it up at $320k. This was 9 years ago. Based on the crap I see I should be able to get $750k for it. :) I think Zillow estimates $480k. Guessing I'd get $500k.

But what a mess this country is in. Price of a 12 pack of soda is $9. Can't get a decent sandwich for under $12. People are having to finance ****** homes at high price and high interest. Thankfully I'm over 50 with a good job but I feel bad for those just starting out. Not sure how you can buy a home and save for retirement if you make less than 6 figures.
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Reports are that inflation is nearing double digits again. Something has to give. Can’t have double digit inflation with double digit interest rates. That would be knocking on the door if the late 70s mess.
 
stateofmind said:
My buddy just bought a townhome brand new East of Ankeny. No basement, no coat closet. 3 BRs upstairs. 2 car garage. Over $250k.

It blows me away what it costs right now. It's just a shiny POS if you ask me. We bought a beautiful ranch with walkout. Backs to the creek and has a bunch of landscaping on 3/4 acre lot. We almost passed it up at $320k. This was 9 years ago. Based on the crap I see I should be able to get $750k for it. :) I think Zillow estimates $480k. Guessing I'd get $500k.

But what a mess this country is in. Price of a 12 pack of soda is $9. Can't get a decent sandwich for under $12. People are having to finance ****** homes at high price and high interest. Thankfully I'm over 50 with a good job but I feel bad for those just starting out. Not sure how you can buy a home and save for retirement if you make less than 6 figures.
Click to expand...

That’s the thing, Boomer, 6 figures is the new 50k.
 
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