Throwing downfield needs more that Dekkers arm

[TopCy]

Both things can be true: Purdy has flaws as a quarterback and Purdy worked around those flaws to be the best quarterback ISU has ever had.
If Dekkers (or anybody) is going to be successful, he's going to have to do the same thing, and there will be some hard lessons to learn as part of that process that we as fans are going to have to be patient with.

 

[CascadeClone]

Too many people also like to overlook his weaknesses and be overly critical of the OL.

I don't think its easy to be OVERLY critical of the OL. I would guess they graded out lowest of the position groups on offense in 2021.

I mean, its not so bad that you need to dump everyone and start from scratch, not by a long shot. But there were a couple guys that got beat a lot, and just a lot of mistakes.

Brock wasn't perfect, I am not saying that. But if someone would review his turnovers - I bet 80%+ were running for his life, trying to make something happen vs unfavorable down and distance. I bet not many were just flat out bad throws while unmolested in the pocket.

 

[HFCS]

I also think people don’t realize just how great, elite and rare Breece was and how much he helped everything else we did, in particular on offense his game breakers could mask some pretty subpar stretches of offense. In part because he is such a mild mannered eyes forward leader. It reminds me of Monte Morris, just quietly doing things practically nobody in the sport does.

 

[CascadeClone]

Both things can be true: Purdy has flaws as a quarterback and Purdy worked around those flaws to be the best quarterback ISU has ever had.
If Dekkers (or anybody) is going to be successful, he's going to have to do the same thing, and there will be some hard lessons to learn as part of that process that we as fans are going to have to be patient with.

Good post.

It's also the coaching staff's responsibility to understand and showcase the QBs (and the offense's) strengths and hide their weaknesses.

 

[AuH2O]

Too many people on this site love to bag on Brock. I'll never understand it. Best QB in ISU history. Not great in comparison to your average NFL starter, sure, but he was an good to great college QB

Yes, he was a very good college QB and a great leader. And people should not trash him. He gave a ton to ISU.

I'd say too many people have completely uninformed opinions that loved to bag on the OL, particularly in pass coverage. There were games where the OL did not pass protect well, and that is why Brock was under duress. But there were a lot of games, vs. Clemson included, where the OL did a great job, particularly against a speed rush and the "pressure" was caused by Brock bailing to the outside rather than climbing the pocket. This happened a lot throughout the year. I understand it because he made a lot of plays when stuff broke down on the outside, and the pass protection has not been consistently very good throughout his career. But the bottom line is the OL pass protected pretty well most games, and there were opportunities to climb the pocket, but Brock didn't do it.

ISU wasn't great in the pass game, or at least was not consistent. It's way to easy to look at every pick as Brock making a bad decision, or every pressure being the OL sucking. It's more complicated than that. In general though I think people have a completely unrealistic idea of what good pass protection looks like.

 

[CycloneVet]

My biggest concern with Dekkers is accuracy and throwing catchable balls. Hopefully he recognizes the need for reduced velocity when needed.

 

[AuH2O]

Good post.

It's also the coaching staff's responsibility to understand and showcase the QBs (and the offense's) strengths and hide their weaknesses.

And not to turn everything in to a bag on Manning thread, especially when you consider that the offense was productive overall and relative to the rest of the big 12, but I still don't get his reluctance to use the RPO a ton. Brock was really good at making the right read and throwing a good ball off the RPO. It also took some pressure off of the OL and really stresses the D. Brock was really elite at running it. His decisiveness and confidence in the RPO vs. a typical pass play was way higher, at least it appeared to be.

Generally I think OCs don't like RPO mostly because it kind of goes against the micromanager nature that a lot of coaches have. These are usually pretty simple plays that are totally dependent on the QB making the right read and play. When ISU used it, it was very effective. Now, of course, using it sparingly helps that too. But I think you run it a ton until a defense proves they can stop it. Considering Clemson was really thin at LB, especially after their MLB got injured, it seems like they could've had success with some different RPO stuff all night.

 

[moores2]

I have a hard time throwing Purdy under the bus, but defenses took a lot away from the way OK St played us. Put basically 8 guys in the box, send more than 4 guys every play. Blows up running lanes and puts pressure on Purdy, and play press man coverage on the back side daring us to beat them over the top knowing that we would rather take an under route to Kolar.

If Purdy had the arm strength to truly be a deep threat we would have had at least 1-2 incompletions of 30+ yards a game to make sure teams couldn't play that style of defense against us. (One of the reasons Kolar had success is linebackers 1st step against us was always forward).

Force a team to play 2 high safeties all game and Breece has a Heisman style year imo.

 

[WhoISthis]

Both things can be true: Purdy has flaws as a quarterback and Purdy worked around those flaws to be the best quarterback ISU has ever had.
If Dekkers (or anybody) is going to be successful, he's going to have to do the same thing, and there will be some hard lessons to learn as part of that process that we as fans are going to have to be patient with.

Right, but the flaws are far less acknowledged, which is fine until it’s just pushing blame on to his teammates like we have here.

Also, is Purdy the best? Both things can be true: Purdy is the most accomplished and Purdy wasn’t the best, or even significantly different than many QBs

 

[allfourcy]

When I read all these supposed weakness that Purdy had, or things he didn't/couldn't do, (which I'm not disagreeing or agreeing with, but rather taking them all in), I am even more AMAZED at how much he accomplished at ISU. To break over 30 records while being that flawed is mind blowing. I get character and tangibles like being the same guy every day, no excuses, goes a long way....but count me as a fan that's even more impressed than I already was. (if what posters indicating is factual)

 

[WhoISthis]

I don't think its easy to be OVERLY critical of the OL. I would guess they graded out lowest of the position groups on offense in 2021.

I mean, its not so bad that you need to dump everyone and start from scratch, not by a long shot. But there were a couple guys that got beat a lot, and just a lot of mistakes.

Brock wasn't perfect, I am not saying that. But if someone would review his turnovers - I bet 80%+ were running for his life, trying to make something happen vs unfavorable down and distance. I bet not many were just flat out bad throws while unmolested in the pocket.

Your first sentence is an example of being overly critical. And your last sentence an example of the near opposite applied to Purdy as we whitewash HIS mistakes.

They were put in the worst spot of any position group. A transparent and bland OC in a rudimentary offense, with a QB that although good as scrambler, makes it difficult on the OL with little pocket presence, anticipation, and average arm strength.

Purdy’s TOs and mistakes are his. Many all his. Yes, some weren’t all of the variety of horrible QB play, and on CF, that’s often good enough to mean they weren’t Purdy.

Good QBs make those around them better. You’re often left saying, if not for the talent by the QB, that play doesnt happen. We got some of that from freshman Purdy. This past year we more often talk about why Purdy didn’t do something or why he made a mistake. In that regard Purdy is like the OL.

Some of that is on the OC and HC. As the OL got better Purdy got worse in regards to positive impact. He was reduced to a game manger, which isn’t his best

 

[AllInForISU]

Dekkers can have all the arm strength he wants, if he doesn’t have Brocks escapability, it’s a moot point. Brock may have made some mistakes but he was able to give his te a chance more often than not by somehow Houdini-ing out of sacks

 

[moores2]

Your first sentence is an example of being overly critical. And your last sentence an example of the near opposite applied to Purdy as we whitewash HIS mistakes.

They were put in the worst spot of any position group. A transparent and bland OC in a rudimentary offense, with a QB that although good as scrambler, makes it difficult on the OL with little pocket presence, anticipation, and average arm strength.

Purdy’s TOs and mistakes are his. Many all his. Yes, some weren’t all of the variety of horrible QB play, and on CF, that’s often good enough to mean they weren’t Purdy.

Good QBs make those around them better. You’re often left saying, if not for the talent by the QB, that play doesnt happen. We got some of that from freshman Purdy. This past year we more often talk about why Purdy didn’t do something or why he made a mistake. In that regard Purdy is like the OL.

Some of that is on the OC and HC. As the OL got better Purdy got worse in regards to positive impact. He was reduced to a game manger, which isn’t his best

I feel like you are underselling his pocket presence. There were times where DEs were dead to rights to him on the blindside and he felt the pressure and escaped. He had excellent pocket presence. However, I feel like the coaching staff coached the "gunslinger" mentality out of him. This year it felt like every throw was on time to arguably the right decision. However, I feel like we could have challenged the defense with tougher throws. How many times did our DBs get mossed down the field for large gains. Felt like we could have given Shaw more opportunities down field.

 

[FallOf81]

Just an observation. I was at the 2020 Oklahoma home game. I got close enough (row 1 our sideline) to watch Purdy and Dekkers warm up. I realize it's just warmups. But if I was an outsider watching it, didn't know squat about either QB, and based on ball flight, accuracy, look, etc .... I would have put money that Dekkers was the starter. Like I said, just an observation, and obviously the coaches made the right decision to start Purdy based on MANY other aspects the QB has to handle. I just feel really good about passes beyond 15 yards next year.

 

[AuH2O]

I don't think its easy to be OVERLY critical of the OL. I would guess they graded out lowest of the position groups on offense in 2021.

I mean, its not so bad that you need to dump everyone and start from scratch, not by a long shot. But there were a couple guys that got beat a lot, and just a lot of mistakes.

Brock wasn't perfect, I am not saying that. But if someone would review his turnovers - I bet 80%+ were running for his life, trying to make something happen vs unfavorable down and distance. I bet not many were just flat out bad throws while unmolested in the pocket.

I think I shared before, but I have the advantage of watching games with my FiL, who is a HoF HS coach and also coached OL in college for years. To paraphrase his assessment of the bowl game he said the pass protection was damn good, especially considering opponent. Purdy was running for his life because he consistently made the wrong decision of when and where to go within and out of the pocket.

It doesn't mean he isn't a really good QB, or that he isn't the greatest ever at ISU. But the turnovers were not the problem, they were a symptom of this weakness. He was elite at escaping some sure sacks when protection broke down. But his weakness that led to most of his TOs is that he was not good at moving within the pocket. It just was something he never became very good at. Most college QBs have pretty significant flaws. That was his, and combined with the tendency to press and not having a super strong arm, it led to some turnovers.

The kid had flaws as a QB, but he was pretty much perfect as a leader and playing with off the charts guts. I'll take that all day.

 

[TopCy]

Right, but the flaws are far less acknowledged, which is fine until it’s just pushing blame on to his teammates like we have here.

Also, is Purdy the best? Both things can be true: Purdy is the most accomplished and Purdy wasn’t the best, or even significantly different than many QBs

I mean, obviously it's a subjective opinion, but I'd be curious who you'd put above him. Wallace is maybe closest statistically, but even if you consider it a tie, Purdy's teams won more often and won more big games than Seneca ever did. I don't think this team would have been any better with another ISU quarterback in his place.

 

[Cyforce]

i have multiple people post about allowing dekkers to throw the ball down field more. It takes much more that Dekkers arm. The biggest thing is that the offensive line has to give Dekkers time to throw. Alot of downfield routes take time to devolpe . if the offensive line cant give him more time to throw then he will be seeing more turf than open throws. i think that is why you didnt brock throw as much down field as we wanted him to . i think the coaching staff just understood that this line couldnt give him the time to do that

How boat we start a gloom and doom mega thread. I'll add a bunch of white nationalism posts, mods can throw it in the cave and then we have the option to opt out?

 

[CascadeClone]

I think I shared before, but I have the advantage of watching games with my FiL, who is a HoF HS coach and also coached OL in college for years. To paraphrase his assessment of the bowl game he said the pass protection was damn good, especially considering opponent. Purdy was running for his life because he consistently made the wrong decision of when and where to go within and out of the pocket.

That's true, the line nutted up quite a bit against a really tough d-line. Not getting totally caved in against Clemson takes a decent performance.

Note that we had a different C and LT. That both disturbs and encourages me.

We also abandoned the run, esp in the 2nd half. Maybe getting Jirehl a few more touches would have calmed down our QB. I should rewatch it, usually see a lot more the 2nd time with the emotion gone.

 

[spierceisu]

I think Brock was a great QB, but his lack of a deep ball definitely hurt. Teams would stack the box (some due to Breece for sure) but the lack of threat of getting beat deep made them bunch up the underneath throws as well as having it harder to run. Brock made the right throws for sure, but it is hard to throw 5 yard passes the entire game and be super effective. I remember a throw in the Iowa game where Huchinson had them beat deep and Brock struggled to get the ball to him, so X had to stop and play DB and the ball was picked. There were throws that were deep where we had success, but time after time the receiver was so wide open and had to stop and wait and then there was minimal if any yards after the catch due to that. Again, Purdy was great, but I do think that a stronger arm on some deep throws can open up the offense for sure.

 

[AuH2O]

That's true, the line nutted up quite a bit against a really tough d-line. Not getting totally caved in against Clemson takes a decent performance.

Note that we had a different C and LT. That both disturbs and encourages me.

We also abandoned the run, esp in the 2nd half. Maybe getting Jirehl a few more touches would have calmed down our QB. I should rewatch it, usually see a lot more the 2nd time with the emotion gone.

I think some of the moral of the bowl story is that maybe shuffling linemen around to different positions all the time isn't the best approach. I get that some teams do that, but I think it can get to a point where you have three guys playing at a position on the OL that is not their natural position. So some injuries hit, and you might go with who you feel are your best five available, but sometimes I think having your best 1-4 and 6th best, but everybody in their natural OL positions can be better. I think a good example of that is that throughout the season I don't think Miller showed up on the two-deeps. He gets thrown in against the best DL we faced all year and played pretty well once he got settled in. He's probably the most natural Tackle on the roster.

On one hand the flexibility is really great and you can typically withstand some injuries better, but I think there is a point where putting your best five available OL does not always equal the best unit.