VT Freshman Charged with Murder

[WooBadger18]

So was there a sexual encounter with a woman the first time and then a switch or something the 2nd time

No, at this point it sounds like what happened is the victim created a fake account using pictures that weren't his. The football player comes over and the victim performs oral sex on him in a way that the victim didn't see who it was or didn't see his face. The defendant later comes over a second time, learns that he has been catfished (and is therefore a victim of sexual assault) and kills the victim.

 

[Rabbuk]

No, at this point it sounds like what happened is the victim created a fake account using pictures that weren't his. The football player comes over and the victim performs oral sex on him in a way that the victim didn't see who it was or didn't see his face. The defendant later comes over a second time, learns that he has been catfished (and is therefore a victim of sexual assault) and kills the victim.

This seems odd and not the most logical explanation. I personally am not letting a faceless person perform oral on me.

 

[WooBadger18]

This seems odd and not the most logical explanation. I personally am not letting a faceless person perform oral on me.

I get what you're saying, but that's really what it sounds like

 

[CycloneDaddy]

More than likely well adjusted human beings are not going to be browsing Tinder.

Almost all my single friends use Tinder and various other online apps for dating now a days. It is pretty much the norm now.

 

[IASTATE07]

While it's not for me, I know a couple that met on Tinder. Married with a couple kids.

 

[shagcarpetjesus]

More than likely well adjusted human beings are not going to be browsing Tinder.

A college age kid using a dating app to find people for random hookups seems pretty damn normal to me. Is it really any different than going to a college bar, getting wasted, and going home with some random person?

Finding out that the person you went home with from the bar isn’t as advertised might be frustrating, embarrassing, maybe even humiliating. Getting from there though to the point where you decide that the person literally needs their skull caved in indicates that you might have a problem.

 

[Dr.bannedman]

getting oral sex from someone not knowing their entire body and person might be bad. also don't kill someone

 

[NWICY]

No, at this point it sounds like what happened is the victim created a fake account using pictures that weren't his. The football player comes over and the victim performs oral sex on him in a way that the victim didn't see who it was or didn't see his face. The defendant later comes over a second time, learns that he has been catfished (and is therefore a victim of sexual assault) and kills the victim.

Woo I know your the lawyer and all, but I'm having a hard time figuring out that if a person consented to oral sex how they were sexually assaulted. If you were forced into sexual acts of not your choosing I understand.

Wouldn't this be more like going to bed with a beer goggles 8 and waking up to a 3-4? I mean poor choice but your own fault. The dude sure as hell shouldn't have been beat to death and the killer should be charged with murder/ manslaughter type charges.

 

[ISUCubswin]

It’s rape if a 30 year old tells a 15 year old they’re 15 and they have consensual sex.

I’m assuming this guys tinder was set to meet with women.

If you are a man and know your best chance to get **** is posing as a woman, it is rape.

 

[Dr.bannedman]

It’s rape if a 30 year old tells a 15 year old they’re 15 and they have consensual sex.

I’m assuming this guys tinder was set to meet with women.

If you are a man and know your best chance to get **** is posing as a woman, it is rape.

i believe the charge would be "sexual trickery" or something like that

 

[Rabbuk]

It’s rape if a 30 year old tells a 15 year old they’re 15 and they have consensual sex.

I’m assuming this guys tinder was set to meet with women.

If you are a man and know your best chance to get **** is posing as a woman, it is rape.

Ya I think Ohio allows gay/trans panic defenses too. But I am not a lawyer.

 

[WooBadger18]

Woo I know your the lawyer and all, but I'm having a hard time figuring out that if a person consented to oral sex how they were sexually assaulted. If you were forced into sexual acts of not your choosing I understand.

Wouldn't this be more like going to bed with a beer goggles 8 and waking up to a 3-4? I mean poor choice but your own fault. The dude sure as hell shouldn't have been beat to death and the killer should be charged with murder/ manslaughter type charges.

It’s a good question. I started hearing about it several years ago, but it’s called sexual assault by fraud/trickery/deceit/etc. The basic idea is that you can consent to sex with certain conditions or certain people. And that if those conditions aren't met, then it would be sexual assault. So a clearer example might be someone agrees to have sex with their spouse blindfolded but the person who actually has sex with them is someone else. Or someone agrees to have sex with their partner if their partner wears a condom, but either before or during sex their partner removes the condom. In each case, you're having no longer having sex with the conditions that you've agreed to. Because there isn't that consent, it's sexual assault.

It applies in this case because apparently the defendant thought he had sex with someone named Ashley. He did not realize it was the victim and that was due to deliberate actions by the victim. Therefore, the defendant was sexually assaulted. Not all states have this type of sexual assault, but apparently Virginia does.

However, that still doesn't mean the guy should have died or that the defendant should not be charged with murder.

 

[isufbcurt]

Absolutely disgusting. Transphobia is horrific.

I don't agree that it is Transphobia. More of catfishing. I have no problem with trans people but if one duped me into a sexual act and then I found out it wasn't what I thought it would I'd be pretty pissed.

I am not condoning the murder, but it's definitely not cool to trick someone into thinking you are a girl.

 

[Clonefan32]

It’s a good question. I started hearing about it several years ago, but it’s called sexual assault by fraud/trickery/deceit/etc. The basic idea is that you can consent to sex with certain conditions or certain people. And that if those conditions aren't met, then it would be sexual assault. So a clearer example might be someone agrees to have sex with their spouse blindfolded but the person who actually has sex with them is someone else. Or someone agrees to have sex with their partner if their partner wears a condom, but either before or during sex their partner removes the condom. In each case, you're having no longer having sex with the conditions that you've agreed to. Because there isn't that consent, it's sexual assault.

It applies in this case because apparently the defendant thought he had sex with someone named Ashley. He did not realize it was the victim and that was due to deliberate actions by the victim. Therefore, the defendant was sexually assaulted. Not all states have this type of sexual assault, but apparently Virginia does.

However, that still doesn't mean the guy should have died or that the defendant should not be charged with murder.

I think it's an interesting concept. I do wonder, however, who the obligation falls on to disclose certain things. In all of your examples their is intentional trickery. However gender identity becomes a more complicated issue due to a more ambiguous definition of gender. So if someone who identifies as female puts herself on Tinder as a female, as she engaged in intentional trickery? Is she under an obligation to disclose her birth-gender?

I think it's an interesting question of where it falls in terms of "trickery", and I can see both sides of the argument (and to be clear, not the point of where someone would be justified in injuring or killing someone...).

 

[06_CY]

It's also easy to sit here and say oh I'd laugh it off or be embarrassed or a little mad, but wouldn't smash the guys face in.

Heat of the moment and it actually happening to you can cause drastically different actions. We also don't know what conversation was had or if anything was said or done (unless I haven't see specific reports of that stuff).

Also not condoning what happened; just extremely difficult to place oneself into that situation. My immediate thought went to the Manti Te'o situation, but much further and to the extreme.

 

[randomfan44]

So he met a girl on Tinder who was actually guy, received some oral, went back for the main attraction but realized it was a guy and then killed him?

If these are the facts - I am conflicted. On one hand I feel you should have known after the first encounter that it was a guy. On the other hand I'd be pretty pissed if meetup 1 happened then I found out I had been duped, but probably not kill someone pissed more like beat the crap out of them a few times pissed.

Conflicted about what? Make a bad decision about a sexual partner and handle it without assaulting or murdering them. It's called adulting. There is nothing to be conflicted about.

 

[TitanClone]

More than likely well adjusted human beings are not going to be browsing Tinder.

I have several friends who met their now wives on Tinder (or Bumble), it's not the "everyone's on here for a quick lay" it can be played out to be. Granted there obviously is some of that.

 

[Peter]

I don't agree that it is Transphobia. More of catfishing. I have no problem with trans people but if one duped me into a sexual act and then I found out it wasn't what I thought it would I'd be pretty pissed.

I am not condoning the murder, but it's definitely not cool to trick someone into thinking you are a girl.

Someone on here said the victim was not actually trans and this was more of a cat fishing situation. Not sure the facts here, but not all trans people have surgery. Many just receive hormone therapy. So just because the victim had a penis doesn’t mean they were a man.

 

[isufbcurt]

Conflicted about what? Make a bad decision about a sexual partner and handle it without assaulting or murdering them. It's called adulting. There is nothing to be conflicted about.

Conflicted because I think intentionally not disclosing all the facts a form of sexual assault. For example if a person knows they have HIV and doesn't disclose it to their partner(s) and a partner gets it, it should be a sexual assault crime. If a male poses as a girl to hook up with a male without disclosing it, it should be a sexual assault crime.

 

[isufbcurt]

Someone on here said the victim was not actually trans and this was more of a cat fishing situation. Not sure the facts here, but not all trans people have surgery. Many just receive hormone therapy. So just because the victim had a penis doesn’t mean they were a man.

I get that. But most guys on tinder looking for girls in the girls section are looking for a girl with a V. By not disclosing it they were intentionally misleading the other person. Murder was not the answer here!!!!! But lets not make the victim out to be free of any wrongdoing.