Did Fred mess up not taking Peter Jok?

[khawk4]

Thomas is a better 3 pt shooter and defender. I'd take Thomas every day of the week

Thomas
32.4 mpg
.433 FG%
.438 3 pt %
10.5 ppg

Jok
26.5 mpg
.448 FG%
.418 3%
15.8 ppg

The only things Thomas edges Jok on is 3 pt percentage, and rebounds (less than two more per game). Jok and Thomas have the same amnt of assists per game, and turn overs. Jok also has forced more turnovers, and has a better overall FG%. Also, Jok has scored 379 pts this year to Thomas's 257, all while playing 6 less mins per game.

Simply put, they are both very good players, but the notion that you just said about taking him every day bc of his defense and 3 pt %, and what your mod said about Thomas getting the nod over Jok for an All Big Ten honor, is kind of silly.

Also, you saying that Iowa fans were ****** when we offered Jok is simply not true, but you for some reason (like always) state it as fact. Maybe the two fans that you talked to were, but the vast, vast majority of people I casually had convos with, or reading from message boards, showed Iowa fans to be cautiously optimistic. Everyone knew of his accolades before the injuries, so most Iowa fans were hoping Fran could return him to his old form, all while avoiding injury. A tall task, but like I said, cautiously optimistic. You are right, though. He wasnt Iowa's first option, but he wasnt some crappy fall back. Fran offered him fairly early in his Sr season.

 

[CyTwins]

Thomas
32.4 mpg
.433 FG%
.438 3 pt %
10.5 ppg

Jok
26.5 mpg
.448 FG%
.418 3%
15.8 ppg

The only things Thomas edges Jok on is 3 pt percentage (2% more) and rebounds (less than two more per game). Jok and Thomas have the same amnt of assists per game, and turn overs. Jok also has forced more turnovers, points, a better overall FG%.

Simply put, they are both very good players, but the notion that you just said about taking him every day bc of his defense and 3 pt %, and what your mod said about Thomas getting the nod over Jok for an All Big Ten honor, is kind of silly.

Also, you saying that Iowa fans were ****** when we offered Jok is simply not true, but you for some reason (like always) state it as fact. Maybe the two fans that you talked to were, but the vast, vast majority of people I casually had convos with, or reading from message boards, showed Iowa fans to be cautiously optimistic. Everyone knew of his accolades before the injuries, so most Iowa fans were hoping Fran could return him to his old form, all while avoiding injury. A tall task, but like I said, cautiously optimistic. You are right, though. He wasnt Iowa's first option, but he wasnt some crappy fall back. Fran offered him fairly early in his Sr season.

Thomas is a better defender, rebounder and 3 pt shooter. Those stats back it up.

I never said Iowa fans were ****** when they offered Jok. I said a lot of people were shocked and surprised they offered him in the early signing period which is true. Fran had one scholarship to give out and was in pretty deep with EC Matthews, Dustin Hogue and a couple others.

 

[khawk4]

Thomas is a better defender, rebounder and 3 pt shooter. Those stats back it up.

I never said Iowa fans were ****** when they offered Jok. I said a lot of people were shocked and surprised they offered him in the early signing period which is true. Fran had one scholarship to give out and was in pretty deep with EC Matthews, Dustin Hogue and a couple others.

So the only reason you would take Thomas over Jok is bc of his 2% better three percentage, and your stat-less claim about being better defensively (even though Jok has, and averages, more steals)? Aaaaand, given the fact that Jok has scored over a 120 pts more, and a better overall shooting percentage? Lol ok

Like I said, I think Thomas is a fantastic player, and would be thrilled if he were at Iowa. But this notion that he is better, and in some extreme cases, much better, than Jok is off. And the stats support that.

Edit: My bad, just saw the rebounding part. Yes, Thomas rebounds better.

 

[Gunnerclone]

So the only reason you would take Thomas over Jok is bc of his 2% better three percentage, and your stat-less claim about being better defensively (even though Jok has, and averages, more steals)? Aaaaand, given the fact that Jok has scored over a 120 pts more, and a better overall shooting percentage? Lol ok

Like I said, I think Thomas is a fantastic player, and would be thrilled if he were at Iowa. But this notion that he is better, and in some extreme cases, much better, than Jok is off. And the stats support that.

Edit: My bad, just saw the rebounding part. Yes, Thomas rebounds better.

Not to mention that MT's performances come in the best conference in CBB and Jok's come in the 5th or 6th best depending on what you look at.

 

[Hawkize31]

Not to mention that MT's performances come in the best conference in CBB and Jok's come in the 5th or 6th best depending on what you look at.

If you're going to try to play that weak card, I'll counter with - Jok is 11-2 against one of the tougher schedules in the "5th best" conference, with no home losses. Thomas is 7-5 with 2 home losses. You don't get argue that Thomas is better because his conference is better when ISU is middle of the pack in that conference while Iowa is at the top of the B1G.

 

[khawk4]

Not to mention that MT's performances come in the best conference in CBB and Jok's come in the 5th or 6th best depending on what you look at.

Ahh, and there it is, ISU plays in the NBA West, and Iowa plays in the NAIA. Is that why your conference has done so well in the NCAA tourney, and the Big Ten hasnt?

 

[Gunnerclone]

If you're going to try to play that weak card, I'll counter with - Jok is 11-2 against one of the tougher schedules in the "5th best" conference, with no home losses. Thomas is 7-5 with 2 home losses. You don't get argue that Thomas is better because his conference is better when ISU is middle of the pack in that conference while Iowa is at the top of the B1G.

That doesn't really make any sense when we're talking about individual stats. Players collect stats win or lose.

 

[BCClone]

Putting MT and jok against each other is not valid, IMO. I don't remember the process, but I don't believe Fred was turning Matt away if jok said yes. You don't turn a top 100 away.

 

[khawk4]

That doesn't really make any sense when we're talking about individual stats. Players collect stats win or lose.

I think you mean it only makes sense if it fits your narrative.

 

[ribsnwhiskey]

Ahh, and there it is, ISU plays in the NBA West, and Iowa plays in the NAIA. Is that why your conference has done so well in the NCAA tourney, and the Big Ten hasnt?

Ah yes, the old NCAA tournament fallback. And when has Iowa done well in the NCAA tourney? 1980?

 

[heitclone]

Thomas
32.4 mpg
.433 FG%
.438 3 pt %
10.5 ppg

Jok
26.5 mpg
.448 FG%
.418 3%
15.8 ppg

The only things Thomas edges Jok on is 3 pt percentage, and rebounds (less than two more per game). Jok and Thomas have the same amnt of assists per game, and turn overs. Jok also has forced more turnovers, and has a better overall FG%. Also, Jok has scored 379 pts this year to Thomas's 257, all while playing 6 less mins per game.

Simply put, they are both very good players, but the notion that you just said about taking him every day bc of his defense and 3 pt %, and what your mod said about Thomas getting the nod over Jok for an All Big Ten honor, is kind of silly.

Also, you saying that Iowa fans were ****** when we offered Jok is simply not true, but you for some reason (like always) state it as fact. Maybe the two fans that you talked to were, but the vast, vast majority of people I casually had convos with, or reading from message boards, showed Iowa fans to be cautiously optimistic. Everyone knew of his accolades before the injuries, so most Iowa fans were hoping Fran could return him to his old form, all while avoiding injury. A tall task, but like I said, cautiously optimistic. You are right, though. He wasnt Iowa's first option, but he wasnt some crappy fall back. Fran offered him fairly early in his Sr season.

Jok is a better scorer and shooter but Matt is better in every other facet of the game. They play to totally different roles on their teams. If Im ISU and already have 4 other scoring options in the starting lineup, I take Matt every time for his defense and rebounding (crazy where we'd be without his rebouding). Matt is arguably the worst offensive starter we have (that's saying something). If I'm Iowa, I have Woody and Clemmons that aren't great offensive players but are good defenders and help out on the glass, I want that offensive specialist like Jok. The numbers are pointless in this argument, they are just 2 totally different players who are asked to do very different things. Imagine either team without these guys

 

[khawk4]

Putting MT and jok against each other is not valid, IMO. I don't remember the process, but I don't believe Fred was turning Matt away if jok said yes. You don't turn a top 100 away.

Completely agree. Jok was an unkown, and Matt was much more polished. IF the roles were reversed, I would have wanted Fran to take Matt, as well.

 

[khawk4]

Ah yes, the old NCAA tournament fallback. And when has Iowa done well in the NCAA tourney? 1980?

We are talking overall conference strength, not individual teams.

In the last ten years, the big 12 has only made it to the final four twice, and both times it was kansas. In that same span, Ill, MSU, Mich, Wisconsin and OSU has been. A few of those teams have been multiple times.

Look, Im not saying the Big 12 isnt a good conference, at all. Im just saying excuse me for not crowning them as the best, cause its the same every year. You guys holler from the rooftops that the Big 12 is sooooo, and sooooo much better than everyone else, then you get into the tournament, and look completely pedestrian.

Also, if you dont think the NCAAs are a good barometer, your win against the SEC was pretty lack luster, who is one of, if not the worst, major college conferences. If it werent for a big night cap of games from your best teams, who knows...

Again, before you blow a gasket, I think the Big 12 fantastic, but its the same song and dance every year.

 

[CTTB78]

Big 12: 1, 2, 10, 15, 21, 30, 32
Big 10: 7, 8, 18, 20, 35, 45, 50

I'm going to go with the top of the Big 12 being significantly better.

If any hawk fan thinks differently, they are not listening to every basketball talking head out there. Outside of Iowa City that is.

 

[tm3308]

Thomas is a better defender, rebounder and 3 pt shooter. Those stats back it up.

I never said Iowa fans were ****** when they offered Jok. I said a lot of people were shocked and surprised they offered him in the early signing period which is true. Fran had one scholarship to give out and was in pretty deep with EC Matthews, Dustin Hogue and a couple others.

If Jok had made three more of his 141 3-point attempts, he'd have the exact same percentage as Thomas. Three-point shooting is a wash.

 

[CyTwins]

So the only reason you would take Thomas over Jok is bc of his 2% better three percentage, and your stat-less claim about being better defensively (even though Jok has, and averages, more steals)? Aaaaand, given the fact that Jok has scored over a 120 pts more, and a better overall shooting percentage? Lol ok

Like I said, I think Thomas is a fantastic player, and would be thrilled if he were at Iowa. But this notion that he is better, and in some extreme cases, much better, than Jok is off. And the stats support that.

Edit: My bad, just saw the rebounding part. Yes, Thomas rebounds better.

Thomas is playing against top competition, he doesn't get to pad his stats against teams like Rutgers and Minnesota

 

[CyTwins]

If Jok had made three more of his 141 3-point attempts, he'd have the exact same percentage as Thomas. Three-point shooting is a wash.

It's not a wash though. Thomas is a better 3 pt shooter and his stats prove it plus he does it against better competition. I could say IF Minnesota wasn't the worst teams in the history of college basketball they would have won last night but at the end of the day they didn't.

 

[tm3308]

It's not a wash though. Thomas is a better 3 pt shooter and his stats prove it plus he does it against better competition. I could say IF Minnesota wasn't the worst teams in the history of college basketball they would have won last night but at the end of the day they didn't.

The margin by which he's better from deep is insignificant. One off night for Thomas and a typical one for Jok, and the roles are reversed. Neither is clearly better than the other from long range.

 

[CyTwins]

The margin by which he's better from deep is insignificant. One off night for Thomas and a typical one for Jok, and the roles are reversed. Neither is clearly better than the other from long range.

One is shooting 43.8% against KenPom's #1 AdjD SOS on the season. The other is shooting 41.8% against KenPom's #47 AdD SOS on the season. So yes, Matt Thomas is clearly the better 3 pt shooter.

 

[BlackHawk]

One is shooting 43.8% against KenPom's #1 AdjD SOS on the season. The other is shooting 41.8% against KenPom's #47 AdD SOS on the season. So yes, Matt Thomas is clearly the better 3 pt shooter.

So? PJ is drawing WAY more attn and game planning against than Thomas. PJ is the 2nd option at Iowa. Thomas is what...4th? Thomas gets so many wide open set looks bc Niang, Morris and even Nader demand more attn. Nice try.