National Perception

[im4cyclones]

I take a run at Matt Wells at Utah State. Either him or Chris Ash. Both young and talented. Matt's brother Luke and Chris both know what it takes to be successful here. If they turned us down, that would say something about this job. Then you have to look at re-treads like Al Golden.

 

[jdoggivjc]

If you think Hokes time at UM was bad because of him, then you know nothing about football. He inherited a horrible team that was full of players that didn't fit his style at all. Then, with all of that, when you have a down program it's not as easy to bring in the top recruits. Add to that, OSU brings in Meyer, who can out-recruit just about anyone and you have a recipe for disaster. The only thing that turned UM around so quickly was the recruits that Hoke did get in, fit perfectly into Harbaughs scheme. The name Harbaugh has brought even more recruits to the university. When Hoke was at SDSU he turned a 2 win program into a 9 win program two years later. SDSU has been to four straight bowl games utilizing Hokes recruits.

So tell us again how bad Hoke is...coming from the name hawkfan I won't hold my breath for an intelligent answer.

How about from an ISU fan that lives in the Detroit metro area?

The guy was not short on 4* and 5* players. Ever. Even in Michigan's down years, they never struggled to out-recruit Michigan State, which is currently in their glory years. The guy was a TERRIBLE game coach. Like I said, he was so bad some fans were were pining for the RichRod years - and they never gave that guy a fair chance because he was not a "Michigan Man".

 

[CyInDFW]

CPR is a GREAT fit. And that is the problem. That is why he has had 6 straight losing seasons and is still our coach. Because we love him going ape **** on the sideline. He fits our bunker mentality.

I couldn't care less about fit - you need someone that can recruit Texas, Florida, Illinois and California. You need someone that will run a slow, ball control offense. If we can find that, I could care less about the fit. He could have zero ties to the midwest.

FIFY

 

[BodeClone]

Sad, but true

 

[swarthmoreCY]

Wut?

What?

 

[CyInDFW]

How about from an ISU fan that lives in the Detroit metro area?

The guy was not short on 4* and 5* players. Ever. Even in Michigan's down years, they never struggled to out-recruit Michigan State, which is currently in their glory years. The guy was a TERRIBLE game coach. Like I said, he was so bad some fans were were pining for the RichRod years - and they never gave that guy a fair chance because he was not a "Michigan Man".

It's because it was a terrible hire on UMs part. They brought in a guy that has proven he can coach the ball control, pound it style of football for a team filled with a bunch of spread 4 and 5 stars that could barely run the scheme they were recruited for. I'm not saying Hoke is the greatest thing to ever come along, I'm saying he wasn't the problem at UM. Rich Rod left him nothing, and to say anything different is just being blind. It's amazing that UM fans think he all of a sudden became a terrible game coach when he got to UM....could it be that your school was terrible then? Seemed to do just fine at SDSU and Ball State...two schools you can compare ISU to.

 

[jdoggivjc]

It's because it was a terrible hire on UMs part. They brought in a guy that has proven he can coach the ball control, pound it style of football for a team filled with a bunch of spread 4 and 5 stars that could barely run the scheme they were recruited for. I'm not saying Hoke is the greatest thing to ever come along, I'm saying he wasn't the problem at UM. Rich Rod left him nothing, and to say anything different is just being blind. It's amazing that UM fans think he all of a sudden became a terrible game coach when he got to UM....could it be that your school was terrible then? Seemed to do just fine at SDSU and Ball State...two schools you can compare ISU to.

That was what Michigan wanted - a ball control offense. But he continued to recruit players that are geared for a spread offense when he could have chosen guys that fit the offense he wanted to run. So who is that on? He got worse each and every season he coached there. In year 4, continuing to recruit 4 and 5* players, had an under .500 season. That's not the kind of guy I want.

 

[ribsnwhiskey]

What?

You arent talking about Bohl or Klieman?

 

[cyrocksmypants]

Who is this Bryan Fletcher chick?

 

[CyInDFW]

That was what Michigan wanted - a ball control offense. But he continued to recruit players that are geared for a spread offense when he could have chosen guys that fit the offense he wanted to run. So who is that on? He got worse each and every season he coached there. In year 4, continuing to recruit 4 and 5* players, had an under .500 season. That's not the kind of guy I want.

Yes, UM wanted a ball control offense, but they had the players to run a spread. He had a total of four years, three of recruiting. That means his first recruiting class were redshirt soph or juniors at the end. Nobody ever thinks that it takes time for most recruits to actually mature to the NCAA level competition. The team that Harbaugh is coaching now is full of Hoke recruits. Hoke needed to have a better staff around him as far as coaching the talent he inherited, but no one can say he can't recruit, and that is the main reason I would like him at ISU. Again, he has the California connection, the midwest connection, etc.

The part of it that I don't like is that Hoke was sent packing before his recruits got to the point of being ready for Big10 football...now Harbaugh, who is a great coach, I'm not saying he isn't, but he's reaping the benefits of Hoke having two top 10 recruiting classes of talent that fits perfectly into the Harbaugh style and scheme.

 

[drednot57]

Bo Pelini, no way. Houston Nutt, no way. I don't understand why Everett Withers wasn't listed. I'm sure JP will interview him in his search, if and when it happens.

 

[BeachAve]

Agree with paying as much as it takes to hire a proven coach but let's be realistic. Until the fan base pays up by increasing the amount donated to the National Cyclone Club through higher donations and members we will continue to struggle to hire the home run head coach everyone thinks we should.

There are exceptions here but an alumni base full of engineers and Ag folks who haven't stepped on campus since graduation--20-35 years ago, are the cheapest, most frugal, disinterested alums you can ask for. I know several

You can't squeeze blood from a turnip

 

[BeachAve]

I know we are still mid-season here but with all of the coaching changes happening, thought this was relevant:



We all love Iowa State but we have a highly inflated perception of ISU football. Not only are we one of the worst Power 5 jobs, there are several non-Power 5 jobs better than this one.

There have been calls for Fuente from Memphis. Let's drop those hopes because 1) he already makes $1.5 mil and 2) he is in line for a much better job. Mike Leach? Come on, the guy makes $2.6 mil at Washington State. Some national people even PJ Fleck isn't attainable for Iowa State.

What would people think about this?

We have an unfair national perception basically. In some computer polls we're ranked above Iowa's next four opponents-- Maryland, Indiana, Purdue, Rutgers

isu is not much different than Penn St, Northwestern, Minnesota, Nebraska

 

[Judoka]

Bo Pelini, no way. Houston Nutt, no way. I don't understand why Everett Withers wasn't listed. I'm sure JP will interview him in his search, if and when it happens.

Pelini won a lot more at Nebraska than their current coach is with basically the same set of players. And the players loved him. I don't care if a coach is abrasive as long as they aren't abusive. And Pelini has never been accused of that as far as I know. I'd be totally okay with a Pelini hire.

 

[Spam]

It's true that we don't have a law school or a med school. Not even a prestigious business school. But I'd be interested to see how an ISU alum that makes $70k a year compares with a $70k a year alumni from other school. I suspect we are cheaper, but it's an unfair conclusion because it's not based on any reasonable evidence.

But even if we were willing to pay a coach a competitive salary, that in no way means we'll get a coach who warrants that salary.

Say we have the ability and willingness to pay 3 million / year. Can you name a couple of coaches who would be willing to come here for that much, but would not be willing to come here for 2 million?

For them to take the 3 million ISU job, ISU would obviously have to be their best job offer- all factors considered. Which might mean that other schools would not be willing to pay them 3 million.

 

[cycloneworld]

Tradition? Have 2% of people in this country even heard of UCF? Or know where it is? Or that they have a football program? ISU's tradition isnt a long winning one obviously, but it at least exists. I know its a better job for coaches in terms of a stepping stone job but if ISU and UCF were 6-6, ISU is a 10x better job.

Even though UCF has a better location, more recent scuccess, more NFL raft picks, and sits in the 2nd best recruiting hotbed in America, let's look at the actual on-field results over the last 10 years.

Last 5 years:
UCF - 47 wins (no counting this year but they are 0-7)
ISU - 23 wins (not counting this year)

Last 10 years:
UCF - 81 wins
ISU - 46 wins

Last 20 years:
UCF - 133 wins
ISU - 88 wins


So add in everything I said above plus its much, much easier to win at UCF, it's not a stretch to say that UCF is a way, way better job than Iowa State in the eyes of potential coaches. Oh, and they pay a similar salary that we do (O'Leary made $1.9 mil). I don't like that. But its the truth.

 

[cycloneworld]

How do we know any of those guys would have succeeded at ISU. Because they are now successful at Baylor, Michigan, and Notre Dame? Those places are different than ISU for many reasons.

Some of you act like we'd be them now, if we'd have only hired one of those guys instead of Chiz. There is no guarantee anything would be different now. After all, the guy we DID hire won a national championship at his next stop... wait for it... at Auburn. Again, different than ISU for many reasons. Get it?

Same reason we know Hoiberg will succeed with the Bulls. Those guys, especially Harbaugh, and just plain winners. Look what Harbaugh is doing at Michigan with Brady Hoke's players. He also turned Stanford around.

Nothing is guaranteed but I would have bet a bunch of money Harbaugh would have won here. And big (big according to our standards).

 

[hawkfan]

If you think Hokes time at UM was bad because of him, then you know nothing about football. He inherited a horrible team that was full of players that didn't fit his style at all. Then, with all of that, when you have a down program it's not as easy to bring in the top recruits. Add to that, OSU brings in Meyer, who can out-recruit just about anyone and you have a recipe for disaster. The only thing that turned UM around so quickly was the recruits that Hoke did get in, fit perfectly into Harbaughs scheme. The name Harbaugh has brought even more recruits to the university. When Hoke was at SDSU he turned a 2 win program into a 9 win program two years later. SDSU has been to four straight bowl games utilizing Hokes recruits.

So tell us again how bad Hoke is...coming from the name hawkfan I won't hold my breath for an intelligent answer.

It's rare that I see posts so easy to tear apart, but you did a really good job of teeing this one up for me.

"He inherited a horrible team that was full of players that didn't fit his style", huh? Interesting narrative. Lets look at Brady Hoke's year by year record:

Year 1 (2011): 11-2 (somehow found a way to lose to a very average Iowa team)
Year 2 (2012): 8-5
Year 3 (2013): 7-6
Year 4 (2014): 5-7

So you see, as the team become more and more his own, it got worse and worse. Sure, he recruited like a champ, Rivals recruiting rank by year:

2011: #21 (Largely RichRod's class closed out by Hoke)
2012: #7 (his first full recruiting class)
2013: #5
2014: #31 (recruits saw the above trend and stopped buying in)
2015: #50 (bottom fell out after he got canned)

By the time the 2014 season rolled around, he had two top 10 recruiting classes under his belt that would have been juniors and sophomores and he went 5-7.

So again, try holding to your bull**** argument that he failed due to RichRod's players. History shows that as RichRod's recruits left, his team performed worse and worse.

The UM program was a dumpster fire in Hoke's final two years. If ISU hired him, he's send ISU's football program back to the 80's.

 

[Judoka]

O'Leary made $1.9 mil

O'Leary was also their AD. So I don't know that they'll have the same budget for his replacement. We also seem to have a bigger budget for assistant coaches based on the latest USA Today database ($2.1M vs $1.8M).

 

[CyForPresident]

There are exceptions here but an alumni base full of engineers and Ag folks who haven't stepped on campus since graduation--20-35 years ago, are the cheapest, most frugal, disinterested alums you can ask for. I know several

You can't squeeze blood from a turnip

With losing Fred, Pollard never shutting the hell up, and the constant football losing, I'm quickly becoming one of those disinterested alums. Start winning and that might change, but I'm really freaking close to giving up on ISU sports.

There might be another generation of disinterested alums if this **** continues.