Okay players? Jones is the most physically gifted player Hoiberg has had as a coach. You could make the same argument for McKay as well. You are being ridiculously pessimistic.
Some Jon Rothstein tweets from ISU practice
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Okay players? Jones is the most physically gifted player Hoiberg has had as a coach. You could make the same argument for McKay as well. You are being ridiculously pessimistic.
Sometimes there is not a big difference between having the talent to win it all and being on the bubble, see UConn last year. How you do in close games, some of which is luck, is HUGE. We lost some critical players in that regard.
Without adding anyone, last year's team sans Ejim and Kane is not even a bubble team imo. Obviously we are adding talented guys, but they are not proven. Certainly not proven to be Kane or Ejim level, particularly when the moments get tough. We also are counting on guys playing bigger roles than a year ago.
Like I hinted at in my original post, I could see us on or close to the bubble, yet be one of those teams talented enough at making a run for Indy.
And BDJ is not more physically gifted than White, not that being the most physically gifted player means much in terms of being the better college player. Edozie is more physically gifted than Georges.
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I agree with you. SwarthmoreCY is being extremely pessimistic. I don't understand why he says the bottom half of the conference will be even better. TCU and Texas Tech haven't gotten any better, Okie State will be lousy, Baylor has taken a huge step back, and WVU is more or less similar as last year in terms of talent.
Why would anyone say we are just getting "okay players"? Fred has said how talented McKay and Nader are with McKay being the first true rim protector in Hoiberg's tenure as head coach. BDJ scored almost 14 points a game for Rice at UNLV. The way UNLV runs their offense, that's equivalent to 50 points a game under Fred Hoiberg. If you just think we have added "okay players" to replace Kane and Ejim, you belong in the looney bin.
And, of course, another difference is we'll never have a cush conference schedule like they do in fb.
Please get out of here if you're going to be a lousy fan. Why is 95% of CF more optimistic about this year than last and you think we might even miss the tournament? As soon as we start doing great, you're going to be one of those guys saying "I knew we would be an amazing team at the beginning of the season when nobody else did." Also, I wouldn't call UConn a "bubble" team. Making the tourney as a 7 seed is far from being a "bubble" team.
That CBS articles has one of the most convincing "I'm here for the long haul" ansers I've heard from Hoiberg. STAY WITH US!!!
CBSSports.com: You mentioned the NBA. It seems like every spring and summer your name keeps getting mentioned for pro jobs. Why isn't that something you've explored yet?
Hoiberg: I have a unique situation here. I grew up here. I went to college here. My family is close and my wife's family is close. I know everyone in the community and my family is very comfortable here. My daughter has dreamed about one thing and that's going to Iowa State. The NBA is great and I love the NBA, but I love Iowa State and the opportunity I have here. We've really built something special and I think we've got real momentum to keep it going even more.
CBSSports.com: You mentioned the NBA. It seems like every spring and summer your name keeps getting mentioned for pro jobs. Why isn't that something you've explored yet?
Hoiberg: I have a unique situation here. I grew up here. I went to college here. My family is close and my wife's family is close. I know everyone in the community and my family is very comfortable here. My daughter has dreamed about one thing and that's going to Iowa State. The NBA is great and I love the NBA, but I love Iowa State and the opportunity I have here. We've really built something special and I think we've got real momentum to keep it going even more.
We are adding more than several "okay players." BDJ is rated as the top transfer in the country, and is more athletic than Kane, as well as a better shooter. McKay was the top Juco in the country and was better than Hogue at Indian Hills. Nader, according to Rothstein as well as Fred, may be the best scorer on the team.
To say these are "okay players" is an absurd statement.
I think Hogue will do a very good Ejim impression this year. I bet a lot of the good spots Ejim got the ball in will go Hogue's way.
But I agree, we are definitely depending on some guys (esp. Nader and McKay) who have not played at this level to play key roles. BDJ's ability I think is fairly unquestionable; its just how he meshes in the system.
Fred has managed to replace every player he's lost some way. Each time has gotten better, and the only reason I see to not assume this team won't be better than last seasons would be to assume all the new comers are no where near living up to the hype.
All that is encouraging, but Ejim and Kane were All-American level players last year. Not 3rd team or HM All-B12, but great players. Only extrapolating from previous performances of the newcomers and returners will replace that. That forecast may be spot on, odds are favorable it is close, but to say it is proven is not true. 2012-13 had similar "proven" talent, maybe more. They were on the bubble until late, yet imo had the ability to make a run at the FF.
Returning players have gotten better every year on CFH's teams. Just think how much better Morris, Thomas and Naz are going to be. Without adding any players the returning players would be on a team in the top half of the conference.
I think this may be a year when 3 or 4 Big 12 teams elevate themselves nationally at the same time. KU, ISU, Texas and Oklahoma all seem primed to have great years. KSU and WVU are the question marks, two great individual talents but how will their teams do? Baylor finally seems to have a rebuilding year. OK State seems on the brink of total implosion.
But you're not even accounting for the fact that the returning guys will have likely improved as well. If guys like Thomas, Naz, Georges, Hogue, Edozie and Morris each improve just a little bit, some portion of their game, that makes the team even that much better as well.
Now add in a defensive, rebounding presence like McKay, a guy that can score the ball in multiple ways in BDJ, and a great athlete who sounds like a do-everything player in Nader...... oh man, that's a ton of options.
There's so much more depth and versatility to this year's team, whether that equates to more wins, a reg. season conf. title, deep NCAA run, etc. remains to be seen, but it's hard not to get excited just thinking about what lies around the corner for these guys.
How can anyone be pessimistic about this year? What an idiot. The most experience Fred has ever returned. The most depth Fred has ever had. The most height he's ever had.
Honestly, you'd have to think Fred is a horrible coach to think this is even a bubble team. We are waaaay too stacked.
Were Ejim and Kane All-Americans going into last year? No.
Honestly, you'd have to think Fred is a horrible coach to think this is even a bubble team. We are waaaay too stacked.
Were Ejim and Kane All-Americans going into last year? No.
Last year I thought that ISU would have been completely unstoppable if they had a guy like Isiah Austin. The freshman has a looooooong ways to go to be Austin. If he can eventually protect the rim with some authority, and knock down shots for 18+, ISU will win a Big 12 regular season title.
Not hard to replace the big 3, when 2 of them were on the team last year....
Niang is obviously still in his same role of the big 3. He closed out more than a few games last year. Wasn't just always Kane. Since DAY 1 LAST YEAR, Houge came out and showed he's damn near an Ejim 2.0. More ferocious rebounder, and has a very similar 3 point %...albeit took half the treys Melvin did. His game is the all around little stuff just like Ejim. You're looking at a minor downgrade at worst from Houge, and possibly a guy who gets in less foul trouble. Can you make any other assumption about Houge after seeing what he did for a season, many times filling in for a foul troubled Ejim? With great confidence, we've got "2 of the Big 3" already in place.....
Kane was crazy good last year, but once the front court presence of Niang was out with injury, Kane wasn't able/allowed to get his linebacker sized body to the rim. As long as Niang is healthy, these Hoiberg endorsed slashers Nader, and BDJ will be getting to the rack and putting up points. Business as usual.
Naz, Morris, Thomas...even if they show no improvement, Naz and Morris would be rock solid guys coming off the bench.
What you aren't taking into account is the fact that EVERY team loses key components. You seem to think we will regress to the bubble because we lost key players. Every team has to deal with this. It's not like every other team in the nation is standing pat with returners and we are the only team who has to replace key guys.
Let me give you a quick primer on the way college basketball works. Players have 4 years of eligibility, and really good players can leave before their eligibility is up. Thus, college basketball teams, and I mean all college basketball teams, are required to replace key seniors and/or early entry draftees, as players have a finite number of years they can play. Thus, every team is required to rely on returning players taking an increased role, and newcomers making an impact.
Luckily for Iowa State, we have a good formula for that. Sure, we lost some good players, but we have quality returners who can step up in Niang, Hogue, Monte, Naz and Matt. Also, we've managed to add key newcomers in Nader, BDJ and McKay. If you don't think between the increased productions of our returners, and the contributions from our newcomers, who are all proven players, then I can't help you.