Sorry Judoka I meant to say up until KJ took over.. but what I did state was correct 3 times since the 63-64' season up until KJ we were consistently a top 10 team (that's including finishing 10th 93-93' and 04-05') I am in no way taking a shot at KJ, I am just saying where I think we all agree we would like to see the program head back to.
KJ gets contract extension
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You're right. Three times since 63. However. You are glossing over the fact that all of those happened in the 90s and 2000s. And we also finished exactly at 10th a few other times in the past 20 years. The landscape of college wrestling has changed immensely in the past few decades. We've been at 10th or worse a fair percentage of the time since our last national title in 1987. And Jackson wasn't here for most of those.
We are not that far removed from finishing highly in the NCAA tournament and I don't think the landscape of college wrestling has changed so drastically that it is beyond reason to expect a top program again. We have finished 2nd four times in the past 17 years. They are as follows 1996, 2000, 2002 and 2007. Three of these second place finishes were under Bobby Douglas. Everyone thinks that since we missed our chance with the golden boy the landscape has completely changed. I disagree.
The problem is that so many Cyclone wrestling fans have stopped following the program, and more importantly, have stopped buying tickets. This apathetic trend will not reverse itself with this contract extension.
If a new coach were to be brought in, these fans would come back, at least for awhile, as hopes for a return to glory would spring up. They won't come back now, and the puny crowds will remain, and wrestling loses even more $$$$...
If a new coach were to be brought in, these fans would come back, at least for awhile, as hopes for a return to glory would spring up. They won't come back now, and the puny crowds will remain, and wrestling loses even more $$$$...
I like the move short time but time to keep building his 2 big classes will come to thruition the team did improve by the end. Next step more AAs and hopefully he has built up enough cred to reload not just rebuild every 4 years. Plus there is really not anyone ready to take over as HC for a school of ISU's caliber, maybe in 2 years someone will be.
So since you think there is a better coach out thats available lets here it. You bring that coach and I guarantee you they wont win a title. We will be set back another 3 or 4 years. Nice try though.
I suppose you could bring in a new coach, have another exodus and do this all over. That would get em'
Personally, I think this is a horrible move, mostly from a timing standpoint.
It appears we have improved greatly the later part of this year, but have we really? The competition we have faced has been far worse than our schedule last year. Why not wait until after Nationals to really see where we stand?
My other concern is with recruiting. Moreno and Gadson are by far our best wrestlers and they are here in large part because they are legacies. I'm not going to go back through the rankings, but I think the only other top national recruit KJ's had is Meeks. Go look at the HS rankings on Intermat. We have exactly 2 recruits ranked in the top 20 at their weights (and one is at 220 which is a 'tweaner' weight). Scrolling through the lists you will see powers like North Dakota State, Rider, and North Carolina much more frequently than ISU...we're not just losing to the Iowa/PSU/OKSt's of the world. It's going to be tough to get back to where we need to be without bringing in some better talent.
Again, I am encouraged by what I've seen in the last couple months, but I think it might be fools gold. I hope I'm wrong and they guys really prove something next week.
It appears we have improved greatly the later part of this year, but have we really? The competition we have faced has been far worse than our schedule last year. Why not wait until after Nationals to really see where we stand?
My other concern is with recruiting. Moreno and Gadson are by far our best wrestlers and they are here in large part because they are legacies. I'm not going to go back through the rankings, but I think the only other top national recruit KJ's had is Meeks. Go look at the HS rankings on Intermat. We have exactly 2 recruits ranked in the top 20 at their weights (and one is at 220 which is a 'tweaner' weight). Scrolling through the lists you will see powers like North Dakota State, Rider, and North Carolina much more frequently than ISU...we're not just losing to the Iowa/PSU/OKSt's of the world. It's going to be tough to get back to where we need to be without bringing in some better talent.
Again, I am encouraged by what I've seen in the last couple months, but I think it might be fools gold. I hope I'm wrong and they guys really prove something next week.
I'm not 100% sold on the idea, but I'm not 100% against it either. They have shown enough fight and fire in the last 6 weeks that has been 10x better than the previous two years combined. They have a legitimate title contender in Gadson and IF (this is a BIG IF) Moreno, Weatherman and Beard wrestle like mad men, they have a shot at AA. Let's say we wrestle as good as we possibly can next week and walk away with 4 AA's including a National Champ...does everyone against this decision change their tune?
Yes, I do change my tune and that's exactly my point. Why not wait and see where we are when it counts?
To the contrary...what if we fall flat and everyone goes 0-2 or 1-2? Was it a mistake then?
I think the issue really isn't about Jackson. I think its about an incorrect belief about where ISU stands in the wrestling world. Nobody is happy with the program being down. The difference is whether you look at it and say "this is what we have to go through to get back on top" or say "we deserve to always be on top".
Iowa State is a good wrestling school. We have good facilities. The Cyclone Wrestling Club brings in good athletes. And our fan support is great (probably the one area where we are "elite"). But this is not the 1980s or earlier anymore. There are new kids in town and Iowa State hasn't kept up. That's why Cael left and nobody walking in the door is going to change that. We can get back to the top through good recruiting and development of athletes. And I think we will. But we don't get to say "We're Iowa State" and magically win a national title. Iowa State can still bring in elite recruits and take them to a NCAA title. We just can't do it on name alone except for legacy guys.
I'll use one school to illustrate my point: Cornell. Twenty years ago Cornell wasn't even a spec in the wrestling world. Now they are a perennial top ten team. How'd they do that?
That's Cornell's wrestling only facility. I've worked out in it. It is amazing. It is new. It is shiny. Its expensive.
Here's a link to the Finger Lakes Wrestling Club. Their equivalent of the CWC. They have more athletes than we do. Because they have more funds than we do. More athletes means more elite workout partners. More elite workout partners means better wrestlers. Want to help fix that? Donate to the CWC.
This is a map of where Cornell is located:
The heart of wrestling recruiting is Ohio, Pennsylvania, and surrounding states. Iowa has great high school wrestling. But on the basis of shear numbers Iowa and surrounding states don't produce near enough D1 recruits to sustain a program totally on local talent. Much less sustain three D1 programs just on local talent.
And Cornell is one example. Penn State, Ohio State, Central Michigan, Rutgers, and many others have made similar investments and have a lot more local talent to go around.
This isn't a death knell for Iowa State Wrestling. Far from it. It is simply the new reality. A reality that we have to live with and work within if we are going to climb up. Tossing a coach because it took him more than a year to completely rebuild a team just means we'd be starting back over, with more missed recruiting classes and more lost transfers. I see the two year extension as Pollard's acknowledgement of this. Two years gives Jackson time to prove whether he can be the guy to take us to the top, or whether we need to see if that job should fall to somebody else.
Iowa State is a good wrestling school. We have good facilities. The Cyclone Wrestling Club brings in good athletes. And our fan support is great (probably the one area where we are "elite"). But this is not the 1980s or earlier anymore. There are new kids in town and Iowa State hasn't kept up. That's why Cael left and nobody walking in the door is going to change that. We can get back to the top through good recruiting and development of athletes. And I think we will. But we don't get to say "We're Iowa State" and magically win a national title. Iowa State can still bring in elite recruits and take them to a NCAA title. We just can't do it on name alone except for legacy guys.
I'll use one school to illustrate my point: Cornell. Twenty years ago Cornell wasn't even a spec in the wrestling world. Now they are a perennial top ten team. How'd they do that?
That's Cornell's wrestling only facility. I've worked out in it. It is amazing. It is new. It is shiny. Its expensive.
Here's a link to the Finger Lakes Wrestling Club. Their equivalent of the CWC. They have more athletes than we do. Because they have more funds than we do. More athletes means more elite workout partners. More elite workout partners means better wrestlers. Want to help fix that? Donate to the CWC.
This is a map of where Cornell is located:
The heart of wrestling recruiting is Ohio, Pennsylvania, and surrounding states. Iowa has great high school wrestling. But on the basis of shear numbers Iowa and surrounding states don't produce near enough D1 recruits to sustain a program totally on local talent. Much less sustain three D1 programs just on local talent.
And Cornell is one example. Penn State, Ohio State, Central Michigan, Rutgers, and many others have made similar investments and have a lot more local talent to go around.
This isn't a death knell for Iowa State Wrestling. Far from it. It is simply the new reality. A reality that we have to live with and work within if we are going to climb up. Tossing a coach because it took him more than a year to completely rebuild a team just means we'd be starting back over, with more missed recruiting classes and more lost transfers. I see the two year extension as Pollard's acknowledgement of this. Two years gives Jackson time to prove whether he can be the guy to take us to the top, or whether we need to see if that job should fall to somebody else.
Here's some numbers for you: of the 330 wrestlers who qualified for nationals this year, 52 of them went to high school in Pennsylvania. 52! Thirty-two more were from Ohio. Those two states produced over 25% of all the wrestlers who qualified for nationals this year.
Iowa is usually at or near the top per capita. But per capita doesn't help much when those states have millions more residents.
And always remember that wrestling does not offer full scholarships, it's all partials. So .5 scholarship to an in state school is a lot different financially than .5 scholarship to an out of state school.
Iowa is usually at or near the top per capita. But per capita doesn't help much when those states have millions more residents.
And always remember that wrestling does not offer full scholarships, it's all partials. So .5 scholarship to an in state school is a lot different financially than .5 scholarship to an out of state school.
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Here's the top 10 states in number and percentage of total qualifiers. Based on where the wrestlers went to high school.
PA - 52 - 15.8%
OH - 32 - 9.7%
NJ - 24 - 7.3%
NY - 23 - 7.0%
CA - 17 - 5.2%
IL - 17 - 5.2%
MI - 16 - 4.8%
IA - 15 - 4.5%
MO - 13 - 3.9%
CO - 10 - 3.0%
PA - 52 - 15.8%
OH - 32 - 9.7%
NJ - 24 - 7.3%
NY - 23 - 7.0%
CA - 17 - 5.2%
IL - 17 - 5.2%
MI - 16 - 4.8%
IA - 15 - 4.5%
MO - 13 - 3.9%
CO - 10 - 3.0%
I wasn't pointing any fingers at KJ, I was answering a statement that someone said we really hadn't been in national contention but a few times. I want us to be back at that level once again, not because it is our right but because we have worked hard enough to earn it back. Who as cyclone fans wouldn't want to see us back in the top 10 compared to where we have been? So we cant pull in the huge recruits, but that doesn't mean we cant find some hard nosed guys that have a killer instinct and work their butts off in the room and come out of no where. Judoka I was not trying to argue with you, and have always respected your postings and feel they are always hitting the nail on the head.
PA -- 12.7 million
OH-- 11.5
NJ -- 8.8
NY -- 19.5
CA -- 38
IL -- 12.8
MI -- 9.8
IA -- 3
MO -- 6
CO -- 5.1
It's always interesting to see a rough estimate of a total state population to see why IA is where it is at. Huge total population's out east/CA so the pickings are much larger and by the time the prime talent is discovered they have been gobbled up by Todays bigger names in college wrestling. That's where KJ and the coaching staff need to find raw guys and break them down, build them back up and compete with heart.