That's Why You Foul

[cyclones500]

As I mentioned in a different thread, I couldn't watch the game, only did online tracking — so I can't judge which is a better decision. Fouling obviously seems like a good idea in retrospect.

But was the game truly lost at that point?
Some have made reference to Lucious missing front-end (even though he made 2 FTs after that).

ISU also had a 6-point lead under 3 minutes, and Ejim missed a 3-pointer. I defer to anyone who saw the game, was that a good shot within that context? This isn't a swipe at Melvin — I just don't know the circumstances with that. My main point: Plenty of details could have made strategy in the final seconds moot.

 

[CyFan61]

ISU also had a 6-point lead under 3 minutes, and Ejim missed a 3-pointer. I defer to anyone who saw the game, was that a good shot within that context? This isn't a swipe at Melvin — I just don't know the circumstances with that. My main point: Plenty of details could have made strategy in the final seconds moot.

It was a very good decision. He had a great look, was shooting well, and had the chance to put the game away. It just didn't fall.

 

[cyguytillidie]

As I mentioned in a different thread, I couldn't watch the game, only did online tracking — so I can't judge which is a better decision. Fouling obviously seems like a good idea in retrospect.

But was the game truly lost at that point?
Some have made reference to Lucious missing front-end (even though he made 2 FTs after that).

ISU also had a 6-point lead under 3 minutes, and Ejim missed a 3-pointer. I defer to anyone who saw the game, was that a good shot within that context? This isn't a swipe at Melvin — I just don't know the circumstances with that. My main point: Plenty of details could have made strategy in the final seconds moot.

He was wide open at the top of the key. He thought about shooting, hesitated, looked to pass, then fired up the three. Probably shouldn't have taken it after passing up on the immediate shot. Didn't look confident.

 

[Pitt_Clone]

I wasn't able to watch the game, but in all my years of watching basketball I don't think I've ever seen a team foul the other team on purpose when they have a three point lead and less than 10 seconds to go.

 

[Motown]

I wasn't able to watch the game, but in all my years of watching basketball I don't think I've ever seen a team foul the other team on purpose when they have a three point lead and less than 10 seconds to go.

Teams foul in that situation every season. Most don't, but it does happen. There are too many variables to simply say "you must foul" or "you must not foul" every time a team is trying to hit a buzzer beater.

I'm not a Clone fan, but to all of those pinning this on Hoiberg, without his game plan ISU isn't leading the game with less than a minute to play. He had a lot of time to prepare for this game, but his formula embarrassed KU on the defensive end. Few teams have been able to neutralize their big men.

 

[klamath632]

That game was lost with Korie's missed FT's and Babb/McGee badly misplaying that last screen.

The second part I agree with 100%.

 

[Bobby45]

Yep, I think Fred needs to work on this aspect of the game at this point. Do not let it happen again. We did have decent rebounders left in the game. If he could choose his poison next time, I think he would have someone foul.

Yur rite Wes if we foul Elijah Johnson We Win the Flipping Game...Thats the bottom line...

 

[Cydkar]

**** happens. He made 2 right after that which should've sealed the game.

You don't think keeping the game over 1 possession is huge? It's not blaming Korie to point it out. As soon as he missed I knew we were going to lose. I didn't think it would take as long as it did (OT).

 

[gbaba]

let the name calling continue. From where I sit, I say "Fred Rocks!"

 

[Go2Guy]

Instead of the "Fouling < 6 seconds" debate, what about debating whether to put pressure on the man bringing the ball up court?

Johnson was able to get KU into their offensive set and run a perimeter weave - the same offense they ran to beat Memphis for the NCAA.

Why not put some pressure on the ball handler to disrupt his lane and maybe peel some more time off the clock?

 

[nhclone]

You don't need to foul there. They have one guy that could beat us at that point, if you identify him you win the game, our guys didnt. Should have used a timeout to talk about it, though, regardless of what they wanted to do. No reason to save 3 timeouts.

 

[Cydkar]

You don't need to foul there. They have one guy that could beat us at that point, if you identify him you win the game, our guys didnt. Should have used a timeout to talk about it, though, regardless of what they wanted to do. No reason to save 3 timeouts.

You've actually oversimplified what happened at the end.

 

[Rogue52]

Yeah, go ahead and rip away on me. I can take it.

But anyone on here that thinks you shouldn't foul in that situation just plain doesn't understand the game. Fred did coach a good game up until the end, of course he did. But in the end, this game is no different than a 30 pt blowout... they are both L's.

You don't get many opportunities like this, and Fred p***ed it right down his leg. He came in with a great gameplan and it worked. And then he fumbled it away. He allowed KU a chance to tie the game up, which NEVER should have happened.

It is games like this that end up costing you trips to the NCAA Tournament in March. You can't have them back again.

Just like the Nebraska football game a few years back when we missed the fake extra point to win the game. I said at the time that that missed opportunity could cost us a bowl game, but everyone on here told me to shut up because we had something like 3 games left to get the one win we needed. And of course, we never did get that one more win, and didn't make a bowl game.

You MUST seize these opportunities when they are there. I just hope this game doesn't crush this team's morale going forward. This one could take a while to swallow for the guys. I hope not.

You are correct. You must seize these opportunities and Lucious failed to make it a 4, possibly 5 point game with less than a minute left. Niang gave them two technical gimmies, we were cold mid-2nd half when KU was doing nothing.

We failed to seize the opportunity.

 

[benjay]

If he had missed it, someone would have posted a thread titled "That's why you don't foul".

It was a lucky-*** contested banked in shot. That kid is a great shooter, but he misses that shot more often than not. Get over it.

 

[MartyFine]

I've read every post in this thread (which I rarely do), and listened to the KXNO morning show coming into the office.

I cannot believe that nobody has pointed to the real problem last night: Paul f-ing Janssen. Janssen was completely out-of-control last night what with the phantom technical and phantom fouls. He should be investigated, and there is no way he should ever work an ISU game ever again.

He is also the reason that ISU did not foul. 1) Niang was out which Hoiberg pointed to as a reason for not fouling (he also mentioned the Creighton game his first year where they fouled in that situation and ended up in OT anyway), but 2) and most important, Paul Janssen would have found a way for KU to win.

Had ISU fouled in that situation, Paul Janssen would have called an intentional foul, putting KU on the line and giving them the ball back. Hoiberg couldn't risk Paul Janssen beating us.

I'm proud of The Mayor for keeping his cool all night. LE and TF would have been tossed way early.

 

[Cysational]

I shouldn't be surprised, but am actually embarrassed by some of our fan base who so easily freak out and put 100% of blame on the coach. If you made comments like this to his face, and he wasn’t such a nice guy, he would put you all in your place with strategy, game plan, x’s and o’s, statistics, percentages and everything else that goes into college basketball that I’m sure have never crossed your mind. Obviously I agree with the call. As others have said there are just too many variables for one decision to be fool proof. Also, someone said that they had a 35% chance of making the last second three, which is way too high for a pressure situation, but either way those odds are in ISU’s favor! I mean he missed the shot so bad he BANKED it in. Game was coached and played very well; they just got lucky at the end.

 

[Cyclonepride]

I wasn't able to watch the game, but in all my years of watching basketball I don't think I've ever seen a team foul the other team on purpose when they have a three point lead and less than 10 seconds to go.

In 30 years of avid basketball, I've seen it maybe six or seven times. Coaches don't do it with a three point lead because you risk having them make one free throw, tipping out the second for three, and losing in regulation. You play it straight up, overtime is the worst case scenario (unless you foul on a made three).

 

[Cyclonin]

I back Fred 100%, and agree with the poster in here that do. You guys all act like you know what to do. Why weren't you hired to coach then?

It is definitely a questionable call, but the right one at the time. Fred thought so, so I agree with it. It sucks that he banked it in, but as some have said, make them beat us.

It was a hell of a game and we came out on the losing end.

This team can compete if they show up like that every game and its not much to ask for. We shot ~40% with no one going off. We shot average, kept the ball under control and executed our game plan and STILL shoulda/coulda beat the #6 team in the country on the road.

They had a guy drop 33 on 12 shots, no way is that par for the course. This team can and will compete if they play like that.

Everyone needs to calm down and back this team. They played their hearts out and thanks to the coaching staff's gameplan, we cancelled out their great defensive presense in Withey. We exposed Kansas last night and I dont see why we can't win a lot more games this year with that effort.

 

[CTTB78]

I don't get these 'easy to say now' comments. I told my wife after we made the second free throw that we'll foul at mid court and the game is over. Fred's decision making rep took a huge hit on deciding not to foul. The flow of the game made it a no brainer.

 

[keepngoal]

Don't foul. It was proven a good choice by WVA last night too.... throw in a complimentary 3 pointer between KU free throws if we foul to put them on the line and we lose.... yeah... I went there.

Don't foul.