Zion Griffin Transferring

[BringBackJohnny]

Not sure the logic of the folks talking like this is a good situation for ISU. The yep he’s no good now we can get an immediate impact player. Hello McFly there isn’t just a stock pile of starter caliber major DI talent laying around waiting for an offer from ISU. To lose a 4 star after being in your system two years is not ideal however you try to spin it. No way in heck will any player that scholarship gets for 2020/21 contribute more than what Zion would have to the team next year.

 

[Clonefan32]

I don't think Zion's lack of development is on Prohm. Prohm spoke openly about his perceived ability, gave him all the confidence in the world. He was given plenty of playing time early to show out. He either didn't listen or couldn't connect the dots for himself. It's unfortunate it didn't work out, you always hate to see a young guy leave the program, especially one that came in with a little bit of clout. I wish him well at his next stop, but I do not think this makes ISU worse next season. Use the scholarship on someone who can contribute immediately and in a big way.

Prohm's job isn't to just hype someone up. It's to make him a better player. The fact no one on that staff was able to rework his jumpshot is telling. He had size and he had athletic ability, but his jumpshot never got better.

I don't think his lack of development was Prohm's fault, per se, but to act like his only job was to give him confidence is completely understating his role as a coach.

 

[Cydkar]

I think Coach Prohm was trying to speak it into existence, as sort of a challenge and encouragement to Zion to step up and be that critical piece that we needed him to be. I suppose that can backfire sometimes too, but a lot of coaches do that.

Correct. The lack of development is on Zion.

 

[clones8232]

Speaking of bad shooting technique... is this a thing under CSP?

Nixon's form was completely inconsistent, it was never the same stroke twice in a row.
Zion had the worlds flattest shot, like an attempted dunk from 20ft.
Hali has that slow mo, almost push shot from the hip.

It's like the polar opposite of Monte, Naz and Matty Ice. Did they lose a critical asst coach who was a great shooting technique guy? Is it just not a point of emphasis anymore? Does the current staff take for granted everyone will be a gym rat like Matt & Naz & Monte, and they just aren't?

I think the last time I saw a great shot technique was D-Jax. Am I off base here?

yes

 

[Javinegli]

Part of the issue, is that these more recent recruits haven't been known as knock down shooters prior to coming to ISU. The work ethic of those mentioned is far from what any of the current team has. Which is part of the culture, or lack thereof.

Speaking of bad shooting technique... is this a thing under CSP?

Nixon's form was completely inconsistent, it was never the same stroke twice in a row.
Zion had the worlds flattest shot, like an attempted dunk from 20ft.
Hali has that slow mo, almost push shot from the hip.

It's like the polar opposite of Monte, Naz and Matty Ice. Did they lose a critical asst coach who was a great shooting technique guy? Is it just not a point of emphasis anymore? Does the current staff take for granted everyone will be a gym rat like Matt & Naz & Monte, and they just aren't?

I think the last time I saw a great shot technique was D-Jax. Am I off base here?

 

[Halincandenza]

Well the last coach kind of new something about shooting. I don't think Prohm or his staff know how to rework shots, at least that is the way it has appeared so far. Also don't think they have recruited great shooters.

 

[Sigmapolis]

Classic Steve. Anyone remember that Lindell hype only bench him for the season due to sprained ankle.

Dude must be an arsonist the way he burns bridges with his own players.

Ugh. This stupid ******* point again.

"Benched" implies Wigginton was not playing. What are you talking about?

He was no longer starting, but he played more minutes in the Big 12 than THT, way more minutes in the postseason (except for the Baylor game in KC when THT was on fire), and roughly 28 MPG in conference. Those are starter minutes. He even won Big 12 Sixth Man of the Year, which is hard to do if benched and not playing.

There are plenty of criticisms for the Prohm regime right now, but the fact Wigginton was not made a starter again (which there was some case for, but not an absolutely overwhelming one) even if his total number of minutes was probably about the same as they would have been without the ankle injury is not one of the legitimate ones.

This is a preposterous point. I do not know why this is the hill the haters want to die on.

Speaking of bad shooting technique... is this a thing under CSP?

Nixon's form was completely inconsistent, it was never the same stroke twice in a row.
Zion had the worlds flattest shot, like an attempted dunk from 20ft.
Hali has that slow mo, almost push shot from the hip.

It's like the polar opposite of Monte, Naz and Matty Ice. Did they lose a critical asst coach who was a great shooting technique guy? Is it just not a point of emphasis anymore? Does the current staff take for granted everyone will be a gym rat like Matt & Naz & Monte, and they just aren't?

I think the last time I saw a great shot technique was D-Jax. Am I off base here?

I would not say D-Jax had great form. Maybe it was just weird because he was a lefty, but I always considered him an "ugly shot, doesn't matter, went in anyways" kind of guy when he was here. I would take him again in a heartbeat.

 

[Cyinthenorth]

Speaking of bad shooting technique... is this a thing under CSP?

Nixon's form was completely inconsistent, it was never the same stroke twice in a row.
Zion had the worlds flattest shot, like an attempted dunk from 20ft.
Hali has that slow mo, almost push shot from the hip.

It's like the polar opposite of Monte, Naz and Matty Ice. Did they lose a critical asst coach who was a great shooting technique guy? Is it just not a point of emphasis anymore? Does the current staff take for granted everyone will be a gym rat like Matt & Naz & Monte, and they just aren't?

I think the last time I saw a great shot technique was D-Jax. Am I off base here?

I'm sure they work with players who have 'broken' shots. When I was in 7th grade on a travelling team, there was a guy--I wouldn't even call him an assistant coach--who came in and helped me correct my shooting form. If my 7th grade travelling team had a guy for fixing shots, I'd bet my life savings there is somebody on Prohm's staff that worked with Zion, too. Also, to some degree, by the time you reach the collegiate level, especially at a P6 school, you need to have that **** figured out yourself. The fact that he is 19 or 20 now and his shot still looks like that is indicative that maybe he just doesn't want to listen to people who have been trying to help him over the years.

 

[Clonefan32]

I'm sure they work with players who have 'broken' shots. When I was in 7th grade on a travelling team, there was a guy--I wouldn't even call him an assistant coach--who came in and helped me correct my shooting form. If my 7th grade travelling team had a guy for fixing shots, I'd bet my life savings there is somebody on Prohm's staff that worked with Zion, too. Also, to some degree, by the time you reach the collegiate level, especially at a P6 school, you need to have that **** figured out yourself. The fact that he is 19 or 20 now and his shot still looks like that is indicative that maybe he just doesn't want to listen to people who have been trying to help him over the years.

And maybe all this is true. But I just don't think you can absolve Steve of liability on Zion's lack of development. He's the coach.

It just seems like certain people have zero expectations for Steve. Nothing is his fault. Players don't develop? Well that's the players fault. We lose 20 games? Well he lost a lot of talent. Consistently gets out-coached? Time for new assistants. What exactly is it we pay him 2 million dollars a year for?

He deserves another year and I can concede there are some things outside of his control. But I just find it absurd that some people refuse to have expectations for him...

 

[CycloneTJS]

did he ever play like he should be getting more minutes?

What does this say about our coaches ability to work with a kid with phenomenal credentials and ability for 2 years, and not help him improve on his game?

 

[Statefan10]

Speaking of bad shooting technique... is this a thing under CSP?

Nixon's form was completely inconsistent, it was never the same stroke twice in a row.
Zion had the worlds flattest shot, like an attempted dunk from 20ft.
Hali has that slow mo, almost push shot from the hip.

It's like the polar opposite of Monte, Naz and Matty Ice. Did they lose a critical asst coach who was a great shooting technique guy? Is it just not a point of emphasis anymore? Does the current staff take for granted everyone will be a gym rat like Matt & Naz & Monte, and they just aren't?

I think the last time I saw a great shot technique was D-Jax. Am I off base here?

Talen Horton-Tucker had a pretty nice looking shot, it was his shot selection that was an issue at times. Wigginton's shot was very nice. Jackson and Grill both have a few things to work on (Grill's feet especially), but their shots are nice overall. Solo and Conditt both have good looking shots, but Conditt needs to actually have confidence in it. Even Lewis has a good looking shot but mentally he doesn't know when to shoot, when not to shoot, and his defense takes him off the floor.

Halliburton has probably had that form since he was little and either his father or high school coaches decided they were not going to fix it. Or, maybe they tried to fix it but Tyrese didn't want to change it because it was effective. His form is always going to look like that because he's been using it for all of his life. It'd be impossible for Prohm or any coach to be able to completely change it, rather they can only give him little tips to help out (like not dipping the ball as much).

And if you were to look back at Matt's freshman and sophomore years, you'd see a big difference in his feet when shooting. He constantly was kicking out his legs, wasn't completely getting square, etc. I have no idea if that was Prohm or if he made the adjustment himself, but his footwork got incredibly better and his shot got more consistent as well.

 

[CyBobby]

Yes and no. Great developer of PGs, absolutely terrible at everything else.

I absolutely positively agree with you Dandy.........

 

[ISC]

Yes and no. Great developer of PGs, absolutely terrible at everything else.

Agreed.. but that's also i think an indicator of assistant coach issues. The head coach isn't the one that can develop all of the talent (he doesn't have the time). I think this group of assistant coaches is lacking and a change in that regard is needed.

 

[IASTATE07]

And maybe all this is true. But I just don't think you can absolve Steve on Zion's lack of development. He's the coach.

It just seems like certain people have zero expectations for Steve. Nothing is his fault. Players don't develop? Well that's the players fault. We lose 20 games? Well he lost a lot of talent. Consistently gets out-coached? Time for new assistants. What exactly is it we pay him 2 million dollars a year for?

He deserves another year and I can concede there are some things outside of his control. But I just find it absurd that some people refuse to have expectations for him...

There have been comments about Zion's work ethic/commitment dating back to last season. There is plenty of blame for Steve, but guys have to want to put in work. It sounds like Zion didn't want to.

 

[Sigmapolis]

There have been comments about Zion's work ethic/commitment dating back to last season. There is plenty of blame for Steve, but guys have to want to put in work. It sounds like Zion didn't want to.

To be fair, finding guys who will put in that work is part of the deal.

College basketball is mostly recruiting.

The includes recruiting personalities and work ethics, not just athletes.

 

[Halincandenza]

There have been comments about Zion's work ethic/commitment dating back to last season. There is plenty of blame for Steve, but guys have to want to put in work. It sounds like Zion didn't want to.

Prohm specifically said that Griffin was a kid that worked really hard in the offseasn and maybe improved the most of anybody. I just think he was overrated. He had one really good tournament where he got several offers but kid probably should be at a lower level.

 

[NorthCyd]

Bummer it didn't work out, but he'll always be an all timer on the list of ISU athletes with cool names.

 

[kirk89gt]

Speaking of assistant coaches.......It seemed to me that our staff is noticeably larger than most. Anecdotally, it appeared that the staff took up half the bench at a home game while the team took up the other half. Looking at the other team and they only had maybe half the staff (both on the bench and listed on the program). Anyone else notice that?

 

[Nader_uggghhh]

Zions shot isnt pretty but that's not the issue at all. He has no right hand and cant handle the ball. Whether he could improve those things or not was always the question. Hopefully he can at his next stop because the potential is still there.

 

[Statefan10]

Speaking of assistant coaches.......It seemed to me that our staff is noticeably larger than most. Anecdotally, it appeared that the staff took up half the bench at a home game while the team took up the other half. Looking at the other team and they only had maybe half the staff (both on the bench and listed on the program). Anyone else notice that?

It doesn't help when 3 spots weren't being used due to the 2 freshman that left and our transfer who can't sit on the bench with the team.