Why do we not recruit small speedy WRs?

[AuH2O]

I remember the good old days during Mac and Rhoads era when we threw corner fade routes to our 5' 10" receivers in the end zone. Those plays always worked well.

The annual hype and ultimate disappointment around the ISU WR units under Rhoads was automatic. The combination of inaccurate QBs with zero catch radius of the WRs was not a good combo. Nothing like hitting at about 50 % completion rate on bubble screens.

 

[Aclone]

Unfortunately, we’ve struck out on most of our top tier and second tier WR targets over the past several years, both short and tall.

Greg Gaines, Jason Essex, Quaron Adams, Michael Parkes, Kai Black and Beni Ngoyi indicate otherwise.

 

[Jeremy]

Greg Gaines, Jason Essex, Quaron Adams, Michael Parkes, Kai Black and Beni Ngoyi indicate otherwise.

Many of those were 3rd tier offers. Until I see any one of them do anything consistently my remarks stand.

 

[NickTheGreat]

Jarvis West was a small speedy receiver. Unfortunately all it took to stop him was a light breeze of wind.

Give me the Lazard, Butler, Pettway, Eaton, Murdock types all day long.

I came here to say Jarvis West. I like tall receiver too, but he was a fun player to watch.

 

[jcyclonee]

Sanna Marin is 5'6". I think she has eligibility...once they get into fighting trim, perhaps they should race.

I could probably be talked into witnessing that race. However, at 5'6", Sanna is pretty tall for a Finnish woman.

 

[VeloClone]

I came here to say Jarvis West. I like tall receiver too, but he was a fun player to watch.

I guess I'm older because I immediately thought of JJ Moses.

 

[AuH2O]

Out of all our problems, that seems like the least important thing to worry about.

You can be successful with small or tall receivers – you recruit the best you can find/get. If there are two receivers of equal speed, athleticism, hands, and skill and I could only take one, I’d take the taller one 10/10 times. It gives a bigger target, more mismatches against defenses, and usually longer wingspan.

Unfortunately, we’ve struck out on most of our top tier and second tier WR targets over the past several years, both short and tall. Combined with the lack of development in that position, our only real success has been with transfers (absent AL). I’m more concerned about having more than one capable receiver each year than I am with their size.

As would everybody. And if I guy has both size and elite quickness in breaks, he isn't a realistic ISU target. There's a pretty strong negative correlation to height and quickness in things like cone & shuttle drills that indicate a guy can line up in the slot and run an option route against a nickel CB or safety and get separation.

Of course there are guys like Lazard that were big, straight line guys that were so good and such freaks they were big time recruits out of HS that pretty much everybody offered. Or guys like Butler that went under the radar but of course was awesome. But for most guys ISU is going to be in the running for, you are picking either size or better ability to get separation in space. With as accurate as QBs in college and even HS are getting, and how tight PI, Defensive holding are called now, most coaches would rather take a guy they can line up in the slot, get open on short and intermediate routes and catch the ball at a high rate than have a big guy that can go moss somebody but doesn't get separation consistently.

Now I think our staff and even Manning did a good job finding ways to exploit matchups with tall receivers and TEs, not just Lazard and Butler, but guys like Pettway and Eaton. As much as the motion and shifting may have contributed to some penalties, they did a nice job figuring out what the coverage was and how to get a mismatch. For example, they'd shift and if it was 2 deep they'd flip a conventional "outside" guy like Butler with a conventional slot like D. Jones or Milton to get Butler to exploit that middle seam.

I get what OP is saying, but I think ISU always has to swim upstream a little bit. This is one way they've done it with at least some success.

 

[Cyinthenorth]

Many of those were 3rd tier offers. Until I see any one of them do anything consistently my remarks stand.

Gaines was a highly regarded recruit was he not? I guess I don't understand the different tiers in recruiting

 

[Jeremy]

Gaines was a highly regarded recruit was he not? I guess I don't understand the different tiers in recruiting

Gaines was absolutely highly recruited, 4-star if I remember. He's shown some promise, but I've also heard issues with route running in practice. He needs to have a breakout year for us as a legit WR2.

 

[Aclone]

Gaines was a highly regarded recruit was he not? I guess I don't understand the different tiers in recruiting

Gaines was highly regarded. Essex was not only talented, but right in Scheelhaase’s wheelhouse. Adams was someone they were all over from “go” because of his pure speed and the Chandler connection. Parkes was an immense steal that they found because his coach was Deon Broomfield’s brother. Black’s only issue had to do with his knee surgery, he was an in state priority. And Ngoyi is long and a phenomenal athlete that they had to hold on to after a late push from Nebby

I think someone is confusing “the highly rated guys they throw an offer at to see if anything sticks” with “the guys they really like and make a priority”.

Corner is another position they do the same thing with.

 

[Jeremy]

Gaines was highly regarded. Essex was not only talented, but right in Scheelhaase’s wheelhouse. Adams was someone they were all over from “go” because of his pure speed and the Chandler connection. Parkes was an immense steal that they found because his coach was Deon Broomfield’s brother. Black’s only issue had to do with his knee surgery, he was an in state priority. And Ngoyi is long and a phenomenal athlete that they had to hold on to after a late push from Nebby

I think someone is confusing “the highly rated guys they throw an offer at to see if anything sticks” with “the guys they really like and make a priority”.

Corner is another position they do the same thing with.

I never said they weren’t good or have potential. But there was serious effort for a tier higher of recruits coming off the Fiesta Bowl win across every position, but especially WR. Unfortunately we didn’t get a lot of those guys at WR or OL. But that doesn’t imply these guys don’t have potential.

 

[Frak]

We've kind of struggled finding guys that can get open and guys that can stretch the field. I do think that the last two classes of WRs were some of the best we've signed. But they have to prove it on gameday.

 

[Aclone]

I never said they weren’t good or have potential. But there was serious effort for a tier higher of recruits coming off the Fiesta Bowl win across every position, but especially WR. Unfortunately we didn’t get a lot of those guys at WR or OL. But that doesn’t imply these guys don’t have potential.

My distinct impression is that the guys we’ve signed at wideout since the Fiesta are a higher tier of recruit than the guys who came before them. It wasn’t really a matter of “lack of development” with some of those guys, they just didn’t have all that much upside.

The same goes for the OL. Those are the “young” kids Clanton was raving about in Spring ball.

 

[RezClone]

.... which is why our offense has sucked so bad under Campbell. "Power" and "Spread" are two different concepts.

But maybe it was Campbell's way of telling the person absolutely nothing... like he usually does.

I see where you are coming from. But I do know they are big presnap numbers in the box guys in terms of matchups and playcalling. Running out of a spread does help you dictate how many guys the defense commits to the run vs the pass.

If you can't run the ball when you have even or better numbers against the defense in the box, then you can't really pass either because they have a bunch of guys more or less sitting on the pass in coverage or pinning their ears back on a blitz.

You can also use read option out of the spread, as well as RPOs, and option stick routes to control the box, which we do a lot. If you execute it right the defense should never be able to take away everything. You can't do that in a more pro style formation, where it's more of a 3 yards and a cloud of dust mentality and then lob a few over the top, or a wide open air raid style 'spread offense' where the run is rarely a threat at all. Those schemes tend to call what they want more or less regardless of what the defense is doing.

We weren't very creative to try to overcome our inability to execute consistently, and obviously Manning took the fall for this and rightfully so. At the same time, I'd be suprised if a whole lot changes in terms of play calling and scheme. Much more likely we get an infinite supply of "execution, process, margins, getting a little better every day etc etc."

Not complaining or anything. I'm cautiously optimistic. It just is what it is.

 

[drmwevr08]

I mean, the next Tyreke Hill is out there. We just have to find him.

 

[RezClone]

Gaines was a highly regarded recruit was he not? I guess I don't understand the different tiers in recruiting

I might be mistaken, but I think by 3rd tier he is talking about how Iowa State's offer was more committable than some of the other notable offers ISU "beat out" on their offer list

For example, Although Gaines was a 4 star with an extensive offer list, if you go back and look at the finalists for his services it was Kansas State, Maryland, ISU, and I forget the last one but it was like a WVU or VA Tech or worse. Solid mid tier P5 schools, but not exactly world beaters full of blue chips.

 

[RustShack]

I just don’t understand why our top three WR’s aren’t the caliber of Randy Moss, Larry Fitzgerald, and Wes Welker. We really should find a Travis Kelce at TE too.

 

[demoncore1031]

We are most likely going to end up with 3 WRs in this class, all of them being 6'3" or over. Most of our roster is taller guys as well. I guess I was just curious about it. I always love having a Jarvis West guy on the team that has the ability to take a short screen and turn it into a huge play. I figured we would bring in one kid like this every year, along with two taller guys.

 

[besserheimerphat]

Because height is one of the inherent advantages WRs tend to have over CBs, and you’re asking to give that up? Like, why?

Cause, like, this one time, there was this, like short but really fast receiver, and like, he was awesome and I just like how awesome it would be if we had a guy like that.

 

[singsing]

You're being lied to if someone's telling you size doesn't matter.