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Why delay the inevitable?

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NEICyFan said:
Mac is the very reason we have winning expectations. Their records are virtually the same and Mac took over a program in much worse shape than CPR. Much worse.
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i think there is a portion of the fan base that doesn't understand this. Mac inherited a team that literally had a handful of D1 players. The path of Mac and Rhoads can't be compared. Mac took over a team that couldn't compete at 1-AA level and built it up. By year 6 won 9 games and ISUs first bowl victory. All while having zero facilities even for that time. Rhoads inherited talent and a program only 4 years removed from playing for a north title. We are now in year 6 of Rhoads and it's off to a rough start.
 
Yeah, and now the Mac-haters will wake up and post again. And as I've said many times, something was wrong at the end and a change had to be made. But when you fire a coach, you better hire someone better. And in Chizik and Rhoads, that hasn't happened.
 
I love Mac and what he did for isu, conference is harder now IMO and has been since then.
 
cylove said:
No not infatuated. You are just a ****. And a typical representative of that fanbase.

I get that you are scared ******** how bad the middle of your defense was today, and that you needed the refs to bail you out against a team that NDSU is better than. So instead of commiserating with a group of your fellow loser insecure fans, what do you do as you sit in your mother's basement because you obviously have no friends???

You go to a site of a team that you don't care about to try to be an even bigger *****.

How ******* insecure do you have to be to do this? You are the true definition of a loser, worse than 9 on panthernation, worse than dean. You have absolutely ZERO redeeming qualities. Your mother must be so proud to share a trailor with you.
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Lol man I hope you are on some blood pressure meds.

I don't need to go into details about anything. I have nothing to prove. I've known what I know for quite some time, and the reason I won't say is because it's not my right to. The only reason I mentioned it again is because what I know falls directly in line with what FarminCy said, and it's not a coincidence. Where there is smoke there is usually fire. Believe what you want tho. And please pop some beta-blockers for your own good.
 
Section110 said:
Lol man I hope you are on some blood pressure meds.

I don't need to go into details about anything. I have nothing to prove. I've known what I know for quite some time, and the reason I won't say is because it's not my right to. The only reason I mentioned it again is because what I know falls directly in line with what FarminCy said, and it's not a coincidence. Where there is smoke there is usually fire. Believe what you want tho. And please pop some beta-blockers for your own good.
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Two people, one of them a hawk eye fan, is not smoke. It's not even kindling.
 
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FarminCy said:
i think there is a portion of the fan base that doesn't understand this. Mac inherited a team that literally had a handful of D1 players. The path of Mac and Rhoads can't be compared. Mac took over a team that couldn't compete at 1-AA level and built it up. By year 6 won 9 games and ISUs first bowl victory. All while having zero facilities even for that time. Rhoads inherited talent and a program only 4 years removed from playing for a north title. We are now in year 6 of Rhoads and it's off to a rough start.
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And what happened in year 9?

Look, I am very aware of the state of the program back then. I was in college and had a roommate that played on the OL for Walden. I have the utmost respect for Coach Mac. In fact, he revealed the ceiling for ISU football - making a bowl most years, winning one occasionally, and having the occasional step back. Seems like Rhoads is following suit.
 
FarminCy said:
i think there is a portion of the fan base that doesn't understand this. Mac inherited a team that literally had a handful of D1 players. The path of Mac and Rhoads can't be compared. Mac took over a team that couldn't compete at 1-AA level and built it up. By year 6 won 9 games and ISUs first bowl victory. All while having zero facilities even for that time. Rhoads inherited talent and a program only 4 years removed from playing for a north title. We are now in year 6 of Rhoads and it's off to a rough start.
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What happened in Year 12 (or 9) if he built anything? By 2006 he was still FCS level talent. Hopefully Mac was giving a cut of his pay in those latter years to Walden.
 
im4cyclones said:
And what happened in year 9?

Look, I am very aware of the state of the program back then. I was in college and had a roommate that played on the OL for Walden. I have the utmost respect for Coach Mac. In fact, he revealed the ceiling for ISU football - making a bowl most years, winning one occasionally, and having the occasional step back. Seems like Rhoads is following suit.
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Ok let's play that game. What happened in year 10 and 11, he bounced back for two good years. He then had another bad year and was let go. With the beginning of the 2000 season Mac had two seasons where he didn't win at least 6 games. He was let go after a 4 win season that came after a 7 win season. I'd sure sign up for a 4 win season after yesterday.
 
FarminCy said:
Ok let's play that game. What happened in year 10 and 11, he bounced back for two good years. He then had another bad year and was let go. With the beginning of the 2000 season Mac had two seasons where he didn't win at least 6 games. He was let go after a 4 win season that came after a 7 win season. I'd sure sign up for a 4 win season after yesterday.
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No, not playing any game. My point was only that there are going to be cycles. You can't tout Mac winning 9 in year 6 and kill Rhoads for a down season in year six without including the fact that Mac had one in year 9.
 
FreeBorn said:
Correct, but winning in major college football is 70% talent -30% coaching. In short, if you can't recruit, you can't win.
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If only things were so simple. Bill Snyder and Mack Brown prove that just isn't the case, however differently they do so. There are far too many examples of coaching up lesser talent into really good teams, and ****** coaches with all the talent in the world who just couldn't steer the ship.
 
FarminCy said:
Ok let's play that game. What happened in year 10 and 11, he bounced back for two good years. He then had another bad year and was let go. With the beginning of the 2000 season Mac had two seasons where he didn't win at least 6 games. He was let go after a 4 win season that came after a 7 win season. I'd sure sign up for a 4 win season after yesterday.
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Exactly- you want to cherry pick Mac's best years because straight-up he falls short. See, Mac already gets a break on those first six years, otherwise he would not be mentioned as even comparable to CPR. The issue with only giving Mac a discount on the first 6 years is that he really did not build anything, at least not to the point he was handing Chizik much. In Year 12 he also would have lost yesterday, so it is hard to put him ahead of Rhoads. Comparing the best years of Mac to the worst years of CPR is a popular pro-Mac thing to do, but the challenges faced by the two are not that different enough to justify cherry picking from a 12 year sample to what should be any coaches worst 6 year sample (years 3-5 as two transition years make up your upperclassmen). So we could not compare Year X to Year X the first 4 years, but now we must compare Year 6 to Year 6? How convenient.

A bigger question is are we correctly stating the Walden to DMac comparison? We like to rationalize DMac's first five years due to what he did not have when he started, when it was more of what Walden did not have. Mac had administration support Walden never had, Mac had the Big 12 footprint in Texas to recruit from that Walden did not have. Hell, Walden left Mac a ground attack and Davis pipeline. Would ISU have been as bad as record in Mac's first 5 years had the hiring been reversed?
 
1. Mac was in a completely different environment as far as competition was concerned.

2. I am sad I have no logical argument to defend keeping CPR at this time. I don't want to fire him but I don't have a good reason to keep him as we sit here today.
 
Every coach that takes on an Iowa State-type challenge has a window of opportunity to recruit. You can sell hope and change the first 3 or 4 years. IF you get results in year 5 and 6 (e.g. Mac's best teams) then you can live off of that a little longer in the recruiting world.....but if you are living off smoke and mirrors at that point you are doomed.

Seriously, what does CPR recruit with at this point? Kids and their handlers are not dumb. The RIDICULOUS phone/text phony-scandal surely is used against us. Recruits watch games and they saw the Pinstripe Bowl, the Liberty Bowl, and god-forbid they all saw yesterday. It is over. Who knows what happens next??? I would think almost anything.....I honestly could see us in ConferenceUSA or some wierd Mountain West arrangement.....anything could happen over the next 5 years, but I doubt winning football will be much a part of it. The Messingham disaster looms much bigger than we ever thought.
 
Didn't the OP start a thread asking for reasons why he should root for ISU as he wasn't a fan? Now he wants to fire the head coach?
 
dirtyninety said:
Every coach that takes on an Iowa State-type challenge has a window of opportunity to recruit. You can sell hope and change the first 3 or 4 years. IF you get results in year 5 and 6 (e.g. Mac's best teams) then you can live off of that a little longer in the recruiting world.....but if you are living off smoke and mirrors at that point you are doomed.

Seriously, what does CPR recruit with at this point? Kids and their handlers are not dumb. The RIDICULOUS phone/text phony-scandal surely is used against us. Recruits watch games and they saw the Pinstripe Bowl, the Liberty Bowl, and god-forbid they all saw yesterday. It is over. Who knows what happens next??? I would think almost anything.....I honestly could see us in ConferenceUSA or some wierd Mountain West arrangement.....anything could happen over the next 5 years, but I doubt winning football will be much a part of it. The Messingham disaster looms much bigger than we ever thought.
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Hit the nail on the head with this post.

What do you sell at this point? Hope and change (to borrow a slogan) is used up.

Our facilities are being upgraded, but we're still going to be behind most of our BCS competitors by a long shot.

I can see selling Mangino to offensive players, but he'll have to show big improvement this year and yesterday was a BAD start to that.

Selling a 73 y/o DC can't be easy, especially with the results since AJ/Knott.

CPR could sell his passion back when he first took over until after the Okie State win, but we've squandered that.

Ames, the state of Iowa, our FB history, our stadium, ISU, climate are either very tough sells or at very least totally negated by what other schools offer.

The only thing I could see pulling us back into the black would be to somehow land a stud QB. A great QB can usually single handedly win a few games for you, even with a suspect supporting cast. With Mangino that is possible, but still a long shot.
 
acgclone said:
Hit the nail on the head with this post.

What do you sell at this point? Hope and change (to borrow a slogan) is used up.

Our facilities are being upgraded, but we're still going to be behind most of our BCS competitors by a long shot.

I can see selling Mangino to offensive players, but he'll have to show big improvement this year and yesterday was a BAD start to that.

Selling a 73 y/o DC can't be easy, especially with the results since AJ/Knott.

CPR could sell his passion back when he first took over until after the Okie State win, but we've squandered that.

Ames, the state of Iowa, our FB history, our stadium, ISU, climate are either very tough sells or at very least totally negated by what other schools offer..
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I can tell you are big into college basketball.
The next time we hire a coach, if how he is going to sell recruits is the first part of his plan, you show him the door. After talking about development, you discuss recruiting in the context of how you are going to identify guys that will develop into the type of 21-22 year-old you need.
 
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