Which player loss hurts the most. Pick 2

[Cyinthenorth]

People must be clamoring for health here forcing that Brock Lee combination.

Ok, after I explain myself I'll see myself out. I chose Dekkers and Brock. Even though Dekkers left a lot on the table to be desired, he still had experience and could occasionally move the offense along, while seemingly ending drives with TO's. I think he still could have helped the QB room progress more, but I guess the other side of it is it presses these younger QB's to push themselves harder. I feel kind of bad for Brock. He chose to stick around after being in Hall's shadow and was waiting patiently for his time and he muffed that up. While he wasn't as versatile as Hall, he did have some positive attributes that we definitely needed in the RB room. That, as well as depth because injuries to the position always happen. Hall and DM aren't easily replaceable apparently, so we kind of need someone to step in and was hoping Brock would officially take over. The other groups I feel usually have depth and next man up usually fills those nicely.

Dekker's experience is undeniable. What I can't figure it is just how valuable it is. Sure he played the games, but he didn't win very many, and even less frequently did he look like the best QB on the field on game day vs whoever our opponent was. I think Dekkers was bound to be supplanted at some point, by JJ Kohl more likely than Rocco, but this whole gambling ordeal is just speeding up the inevitable. And again, with the speeding up of things, the question of how valuable experience is resounds. We are very green at the most pivotal position in the sport. The hope I think is that Rocco is as cool a customer as he has been advertised. A smart kid with a tremendous football pedigree. Hopefully he is unrattled and ready, and I want to believe he is. If he isn't, a lot hinges on either a junior college kid who hasn't taken a snap at this level, or the true freshman who is in the same boat. I guess I am just a bit more optimistic that the drop off from Dekkers to the current group won't be too terribly big.

 

[Cyinthenorth]

First thought was to say Brock, but I think we have enough horses in the RB room that his "WAR" isn't that big.
Same with Lee. Depth is important, but Lee was a "guy" not a "dude" as Woody would say.

So I went with Dekkers and Remsberg. Having a returning starter at QB is a big deal, even if he was 'erratic' last year. Teams with returning experienced starting QBs do well in CFB (see: Duggan, Max)

And the OL is critical this year. I was/am hoping that Remsberg with a new/better coach would be back to what he looked like he could be as a freshman.

I did not go with Remsburg, simply because I anticipate that he will be available at some point again.

 

[Statefan10]

But who is behind any of the other guys you mentioned? We all know the names Dom Orange, JR Singleton and Tyler Onyedim. If any one of those guys goes down now, with Lee no longer present, the D Line suddenly becomes an issue. If that happens, and teams are running for 7-8 yard chunk plays at will against us, we will be missing Lee. Hopefully it doesn't come to that, and then I agree the loss of Lee can me mitigated, but as of now I see Lee as a bigger loss than anyone else from the gambling sting - Dekkers, Hanika, Remsburg etc.

Edited to add that aside from Lee's presence in the starting lineup, as a 5th year senior, I am also under the impression that he was a pretty big deal from a leadership standpoint. Could have been in line to be a captain. Having a guy like Lee around can do wonders for morale. How will the younger D Linemen be when the lights turn on and they are staring down Iowa OL and Big 12 OL? Time will tell of course.

Yeah I'll agree from the leadership perspective. I just am not worried about the DL because it's arguably been our best position group since CMC has gotten here. Big props to Eli as he's probably a top 10 DL coach in the country. I will agree with you that Lee is the worst loss out of all of them, but it's happening in a position group that's actually pretty stout. I mentioned those three good guys above, but I guarantee there are a couple guys that will be more than capable.

 

[CYCLNST8]

No offense to any defensive linemen out there, but nose is probably the easiest position to play in football. We have the bodies and the coach. It’d be nice to have him, but Lee should be dead last in this poll.

 

[OscarBerkshire]

Since we finally have a good secondary as long as the front 6 contains the run we should be okay. But our linebackers may not be as good this year as they have been historically which makes the Lee loss hurt the most, imo. The passing game wasn’t going to be great this year no matter the QB as the TE/WR room is so talent-poor, so I chose Brock and lee. The RBs behind Brock that we’ve seen haven’t shown anything promising and we’re going to need a reliable RB with our young QB room

 

[Cyinthenorth]

Yeah I'll agree from the leadership perspective. I just am not worried about the DL because it's arguably been our best position group since CMC has gotten here. Big props to Eli as he's probably a top 10 DL coach in the country. I will agree with you that Lee is the worst loss out of all of them, but it's happening in a position group that's actually pretty stout. I mentioned those three good guys above, but I guarantee there are a couple guys that will be more than capable.

I hope so. Ezeogu (sp?) is another name I have heard, but admittedly could not name any other DL. Eli has been great and the DL has been great. Just need the bodies or no amount of coaching is going to fill those gaps.

 

[coolerifyoudid]

I went with Brock and Hanika. Losing players on the offensive side of the ball seem like a greater impact.

Brock's experience in pass blocking is tough to replace from the RB position. That being said, he lacked vision and explosion hitting the hole sometimes and, with our line, you need to make them count when you see them.

Hanika was a nice surprise at times and I was hopeful for continued growth. I thought he had good hands and agility for his size and was possibly poised to be a bigger threat if we could get our offense more balanced.

It was weird seeing the brief career of Dekkers. He went from 'heralded recruit that was going to possibly push Purdy for playing time' to 'rookie that played like a rookie with questionable body language and suspect decision making' to 'wipe the slate clean and let's see what he can do with a new O-line' to whatever this mess is that we have today.

 

[Cy4All]

I'm not particularly upset about losing any of them. What have we really lost? All I see is a plethora of guys who have under performed or been injury prone. Add to that the noticeable attitude issues with some guys and I think this is more of a culture repair than a loss.

 

[CYEATHAWK]

I'm not particularly upset about losing any of them. What have we really lost? All I see is a plethora of guys who have under performed or been injury prone. Add to that the noticeable attitude issues with some guys and I think this is more of a culture repair than a loss.

Good post. For the last 6 seasons the Sesame Street word of the day on Cyclonefanatic has been "culture". Culture first........culture last.....culture a little more. Many on this site are such an easy sell. The culture at ISU is........there is no culture. At least none that would impress enough on these young men. CMC needs to find another catch phrase for the day. One that fits the program he is running like "Ankeny tough" or "Ohio strong".......something other than "culture". Because rotten cottage cheese has plenty of culture. I doubt anyone wants anything to do with it however.

 

[Cyinthenorth]

I went with Brock and Hanika. Losing players on the offensive side of the ball seem like a greater impact.

Brock's experience in pass blocking is tough to replace from the RB position. That being said, he lacked vision and explosion hitting the hole sometimes and, with our line, you need to make them count when you see them.

Hanika was a nice surprise at times and I was hopeful for continued growth. I thought he had good hands and agility for his size and was possibly poised to be a bigger threat if we could get our offense more balanced.

It was weird seeing the brief career of Dekkers. He went from 'heralded recruit that was going to possibly push Purdy for playing time' to 'rookie that played like a rookie with questionable body language and suspect decision making' to 'wipe the slate clean and let's see what he can do with a new O-line' to whatever this mess is that we have today.

Hanika hasn't really been brought up much. I agree with you, he was a nice big target in the red zone and you could see a path to him kind of becoming that safety valve at TE that Purdy had the whole time he was here. But he would be completely invisible at times as well. Our run blocking was very poor most of the season too, so am thinking he probably struggled in that area. Good, not great receiving TE, but not sure you are losing a lot. TE kind of feels like 'next man in' type of position, and I know we have some good younger ones. Burkle and Miller have multiple years in the program now, and Brahmer is obviously quite promising. Klotz and Dean are still around as well, I feel like Hanika would have probably still had a somewhat limited role/impact on this years team and been pushed by the younger guys.

 

[Cyinthenorth]

Good post. For the last 6 seasons the Sesame Street word of the day on Cyclonefanatic has been "culture". Culture first........culture last.....culture a little more. Many on this site are such an easy sell. The culture at ISU is........there is no culture. At least none that would impress enough on these young men. CMC needs to find another catch phrase for the day. One that fits the program he is running like "Ankeny tough" or "Ohio strong".......something other than "culture". Because rotten cottage cheese has plenty of culture. I doubt anyone wants anything to do with it however.

Culture is still a fine catch phrase. Maybe even necessary still. Ask Paul Rhoads if he wishes the culture had been better during his tenure. Any program lacking good culture is doomed to fail. I agree with the poster you replied to. The guys leaving, although maybe not bad people, did a bad thing and soured the culture a bit. Losing them is hopefully addition by subtraction.

 

[Cycsk]

Tom Manning.

(Ducks and runs)

Hmmm. Now I wonder how much Dekkers affected Manning's performance as an OC.

 

[CYCLNST8]

Culture is still a fine catch phrase. Maybe even necessary still. Ask Paul Rhoads if he wishes the culture had been better during his tenure. Any program lacking good culture is doomed to fail. I agree with the poster you replied to. The guys leaving, although maybe not bad people, did a bad thing and soured the culture a bit. Losing them is hopefully addition by subtraction.

"Player-led" culture. It really started with David Montgomery and continued through the '21 class. Likely team captains got wiped out by the betting scandal. Feels like we're starting from scratch again.

 

[Frak]

I picked Brock and Lee. Brock was clearly the best RB on the roster last year and things went downhill when he was hurt. He could turn poorly blocked runs into gains and that's something that Silas and Sanders couldn't do. I don't know that we have another RB that can do that. I do think that Norton can do that, but can he stay healthy? Lee, I think that Dom Orange is the more talented player for sure. But having the Lee/Orange rotation meant that we never had to worry about NG. Now, we are one injury away from having OL convert Anthony Smith or TRFR Zaimir Hawk getting real snaps. That's a little concerning.

I am not concerned at all about Hanika as I believe that we have TEs that can make up for that loss and the room is deep. Remsburg had hardly played the past two years and I expect he'll be back at some point. Dekkers would have been my 3rd choice. At least we know what we're getting from him and I believe that the lack of running game hurt him more last year than anything. But I think that Rocco can do just fine as long as the OL is improved.

 

[amishclone]

I have a soft spot for Lee--didn't he play a crucial part in the WVU "unprofessional fans" game? Like filled in for someone who was injured or suspended or something?

 

[bozclone]

I only voted for Brock. He proved to be a DI back last year. I think our RB room is talented, but I would feel better with him in it. I was ready to move on from Dekkers last year. Orange is going to be a star at starting DL and we have other very talented young interior guys. I do wish Brown would have stuck around now. Lots of young talented TE’s that need to play. Remsberg was often hurt. Ready to move on from these guys.

 

[fsanford]

None of the above was not an option
But I guess Remsburg.

Again if you are betting against your team your effort needs to be questioned

 

[EvilBetty]

I don't feel sad for him. He know the ramifications of being caught gambling. They all did. Any player who bets on their own team has to expect things could go wrong. Have they not heard of Pete Rose? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know how easy it is for authorities to backtrack to a cell phone or laptop. Brock waited a long time for his shot to piss it down his leg. I do wish his talents were available in the backfield this fall, but I think Remsburg is the only one likely to be back.

true, but i was an idiot at his age. a lot of people are. I did a ton of stupid **** at his age. only difference is I had a LOT less on the line. People make mistakes. I do feel bad for all these guys. stupid mistakes. they chose to make them. doesn't mean you have to lose all sense of empathy.

 

[EvilBetty]

None of the above was not an option
But I guess Remsburg.

Again if you are betting against your team your effort needs to be questioned

none of the above?

you actually think losing 4-5 RS senior starters won't hurt this team. you may be "over" losing them and ready to move on but don't pretend this isn't a huge gut punch for this team's potential.

 

[Iluvteak]

Brock for sure. Dekkers I feel is pretty overrated, so I think Rocco or Kohl could step in and be fine.

The Dekkers hate is just laughable. The guy was All Big 12 in his first season. Oline was awful, had one receiver and he beat the HAWKS. Something many of our QB’s couldn’t do. I’m so sick of hearing this crap.